Lithium batteries protection in low temperatures

[Grianan]

We were due to get Lithium fitted later this month. Seriously reconsidering now as we live in Scotland and use the van all year round. Too big an investment for a fair weather only battery.

 

[bigtwin]

We were due to get Lithium fitted later this month. Seriously reconsidering now as we live in Scotland and use the van all year round. Too big an investment for a fair weather only battery.

Honestly, it really isn’t a problem, particularly if you get ones with built in heating elements.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

We were due to get Lithium fitted later this month. Seriously reconsidering now as we live in Scotland and use the van all year round. Too big an investment for a fair weather only battery.

I think you are over worrying, with the correct chargers and temp sensors they can be setup so they the battery doesn't charge when the battery temperature is low. You also have the back up of the battery BMS which will stop it charging in low temperatures.

Also you can buy batteries with heater pads in them or fit your own heater pads to a battery.

 

[MichaelT]

We were due to get Lithium fitted later this month. Seriously reconsidering now as we live in Scotland and use the van all year round. Too big an investment for a fair weather only battery.

But if you use the van all year you will be heating it in the cold weather so no problems?

 

[Pausim]

We were due to get Lithium fitted later this month. Seriously reconsidering now as we live in Scotland and use the van all year round. Too big an investment for a fair weather only battery.

They really are not a fair weather only battery. Their discharge performance in freezing conditions is far better than lead acid. A lead acid battery battery below freezing can lose up to 30% of its capacity, whereas LiFePO4 drops no more than 5%. That means a 100Ah lead acid battery could drop to 70Ah where the Li one will still give at least 95Ah. If you really want to charge an Li battery when its internal temperature is below 0C get one with a built in heater. I would be surprised if you let the temperature inside your van drop below freezing when using it, you would end up with frozen pipes.

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[Grianan]

They really are not a fair weather only battery. Their discharge performance in freezing conditions is far better than lead acid. A lead acid battery battery below freezing can lose up to 30% of its capacity, whereas LiFePO4 drops no more than 5%. That means a 100Ah lead acid battery could drop to 70Ah where the Li one will still give at least 95Ah. If you really want to charge an Li battery when its internal temperature is below 0C get one with a built in heater. I would be surprised if you let the temperature inside your van drop below freezing when using it, you would end up with frozen pipes.

It was more if we charge on drive to keep topped up. We’d need to remember to put heating on first …

 

[Pausim]

It was more if we charge on drive to keep topped up. We’d need to remember to put heating on first …

With an Li battery you shouldn’t need to top it up, they have a very low level of self discharge. You could disconnect it completely and ignore it all winter and it would still be usable come spring. If you really want to charge it you could choose one of the warmer days or get one with a built in heater. If you try to charge one with a heater when it is too cold, the charge is diverted to the heater until the cells warm up and then charging commences.

 

[Gents]

Hi All, I have been reading with interest, also. will take my old brain a month to take all this knowledge onboard. I have a question, I have 2 x 150 ah Lithiums fitted, & 4 solar panels, wired in 2 sets. 1 being 2x 80 & the other being 2x 100. each pair wired through its own Votronic controller,
So this also means running 2x display panels. How do I get, both sets onto the Votronic App, At present, i only have one set showing. I’ve emailed Votronic a couple of times, but had Zero response, which I’m disappointed by, considering the money they charge. Each display is wired into its controller, as per instructions.

 

[Minxy]

Hi All, I have been reading with interest, also. will take my old brain a month to take all this knowledge onboard. I have a question, I have 2 x 150 ah Lithiums fitted, & 4 solar panels, wired in 2 sets. 1 being 2x 80 & the other being 2x 100. each pair wired through its own Votronic controller,
So this also means running 2x display panels. How do I get, both sets onto the Votronic App, At present, i only have one set showing. I’ve emailed Votronic a couple of times, but had Zero response, which I’m disappointed by, considering the money they charge. Each display is wired into its controller, as per instructions.

Does your phone allow you to have separate areas/a second space? If so you may be able to set the app up for the other controller on that as that area will be seen as if it was a different phone.

 

[funflair]

Hi All, I have been reading with interest, also. will take my old brain a month to take all this knowledge onboard. I have a question, I have 2 x 150 ah Lithiums fitted, & 4 solar panels, wired in 2 sets. 1 being 2x 80 & the other being 2x 100. each pair wired through its own Votronic controller,
So this also means running 2x display panels. How do I get, both sets onto the Votronic App, At present, i only have one set showing. I’ve emailed Votronic a couple of times, but had Zero response, which I’m disappointed by, considering the money they charge. Each display is wired into its controller, as per instructions.

One of these should do it for you,

Solar Data Extender 3n1 | VOTRONIC

www.votronic.de

Takes 3 inputs and combines the charge to one display + readout on the app.

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[Hoovie]

But if you use the van all year you will be heating it in the cold weather so no problems?

depends where the batteries are located. if they are in an unheated outside locker, like many motorhomes have them, heating the van interior will make no difference.

 

[RichardB]

I’ve just got my Fogstar 300 and have it on my ip22 charging as we speak. When it goes in the van it will have a victron ip22, smart solar and a Orion b2b

I have found a victron smart battery sense in the cupboard - is it worth connecting it to the Fogstar?

Thanks

 

[peterc10]

I have found a victron smart battery sense in the cupboard - is it worth connecting it to the Fogstar?

Thanks

Yep. It will tell the IP22, B2B and smart solar the temperature of the battery so that they all know when it is too cold to charge.

 

[Lenny HB]

Not essential as the Fogstar has a built in heater but you could do it for peace of mind.

 

[Raul]

Actually, if it has built in heater, it’s best without the smart sense. If you deny the charger to work in cold, the heater will never kick in. If you have heated battery, then you should disable low temp protection in the charger settings. Let the charger work across all temps.

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[Gents]

Does your phone allow you to have separate areas/a second space? If so you may be able to set the app up for the other controller on that as that area will be seen as if it was a different phone.

Thank you for your response, I will have to look into that, i’m no techy, so will may jake a while to sus.
Will come back with a result, hopefully.
Thank you

 

[Gents]

One of these should do it for you,

Solar Data Extender 3n1 | VOTRONIC

www.votronic.de

Takes 3 inputs and combines the charge to one display + readout on the app.

Thankyou will come back with a result. many thanks for your input.

 

[ghoster]

I am not sure if this is of interest to anyone. I have lithium batteries for my solar panels and they live undercover in an unheated space. To protect them I use an electric blanket linked to a Kerotek KT3100 Digital thermostat that only provides power and therefore heating to the blanket below the temperature you set.

 

[Reevsie]

Got 2 Ecotree Lithium fitted last year, Due to the cost I was paranoid about them being damaged to the low temp charging limitations. Looked into all kinds of solutions and eventually fitted a 28W tubular heater with a small inverter. Draws 2.5 Amps with the inverter and at it switches on/off all night used 10 Amps over 12 hours of dark winter nights in the battery cupboard. It is in a Frankia with a double floor. I try to keep the cupboard about 15 C as I find the batteries perform a lot better when warm. Drive a Tesla and in winter the batteries perform worse when under about 13 C.

Amazon product ASIN B00TFHBEDG

 

[bigtwin]

Got 2 Ecotree Lithium fitted last year, Due to the cost I was paranoid about them being damaged to the low temp charging limitations. Looked into all kinds of solutions and eventually fitted a 28W tubular heater with a small inverter. Draws 2.5 Amps with the inverter and at it switches on/off all night used 10 Amps over 12 hours of dark winter nights in the battery cupboard. It is in a Frankia with a double floor. I try to keep the cupboard about 15 C as I find the batteries perform a lot better when warm. Drive a Tesla and in winter the batteries perform worse when under about 13 C.

Amazon product ASIN B00TFHBEDG

Do they not have in-built low temperature charge protection? I thought that was pretty standard these days.

Ian

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[Reevsie]

I do not think the ones I have low temp sense. But maybe I am wrong. I have. I got 2 x 320 Amp. I have installed the Victron battery sense and set it to 2 degrees so when it gets to cold outside the solar will not charge them.

 

[Tony50]

Even though we are in Spain it has been very cold some days, we intend to do cooler countries too so not being able to charge from solar would be a concern as we don't use sites or have hook up.

Don't camp near Madrid, it's high up and a few year ago, in January it was minus 6 Centigrade campsite pipes all frozen and so we're we outside, we didn't realise how high Madrid area was !!

 

[Pausim]

I try to keep the cupboard about 15 C as I find the batteries perform a lot better when warm. Drive a Tesla and in winter the batteries perform worse when under about 13 C.

I think you are wasting power keeping LiFePO4 cells at 13C+. The charging issues only arise below 0C and the output performance is only very marginally affected by cold temperatures. Remember there are many different types of Li-ion battery cells and the ones in your car are very likely to be of another type. Tesla have only recently switched to using LiFePO4 cells. By Q1 2022 only 50% of their new cars had LiFePO4 batteries.

 

[Reevsie]

Thanks for the info. Don't know that much about battery chemistry. Was just going by how my car performs worse when the temp drops. .

 

[Tude]

I've just read this thread and understand most of it and I have to say it's put me off going lithium! There are enough things to think about with a MH without having to mollycoddle batteries too.

Is it really as big an issue as it seems?

Your so wrong

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