LifePO4 not made in China (PRC)? (16 Viewers)

[jongood]

In my quest to try to step back from the crowd funding of China, its proving incredibly difficult to buy Lithium batteries from anywhere else. American production seems limited to Tesla and when I search Czech products (I know they produce their own) I'm directed to GWL who are trying to sell me Winston which are made in PRC.

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Two on Tour]

Contact Victron Energy and ask the question as none of their products I have seen are made in China.

 

[jongood]

Thanks. I cant find anything other than Netherlands on their website so have made an enquiry by email.

 

[Pausim]

I have a Relion. Relion says “Egineered in the USA” but they are still made in China. If you can find one manufactured elsewhere it may well still contain cells that were made in China. I think South Korea also produces some LiFePO4 cells.

 

[Gromett]

In my quest to try to step back from the crowd funding of China, its proving incredibly difficult to buy Lithium batteries from anywhere else. American production seems limited to Tesla and when I search Czech products (I know they produce their own) I'm directed to GWL who are trying to sell me Winston which are made in PRC.

Does anyone have any ideas?

I think you will be very lucky to get a LiFePO4 made outside of China the moment as their patents have only just expired from what I understand.

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[Raul]

Victron’s batteries with external bms are made with winston cells 100%. The later ones with integrated bms are suspected to be made with sinopoly cells. We will probably see this year LFP made outside China. They don’t have the monopoly patents anymore.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I think you will be very lucky to get a LiFePO4 made outside of China the moment as their patents have only just expired from what I understand.

China’s patents?

China doesn’t take much notice of other people’s patents

 

[Lenny HB]

China’s patents?

China doesn’t take much notice of other people’s patents

So true.

 

[Gaston aires]

China’s patents?

China doesn’t take much notice of other people’s patents

Well known for patent theft, and they get away with it.

 

[Gromett]

China’s patents?

China doesn’t take much notice of other people’s patents

Are you suggesting we ignore their patents then?

Moot point as they have just run out so expect to see LiFePO4 batteries made elsewhere now

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[Don Quixote]

I bought a ULTIMATRON LiFePO4 12.8V 180Ah LX Smart BMS Motorhome/Camper van battery sub seat. French company sold here in Spain, but think they are from LIONTRON in Germany, just rebadged.
The Management System (BMS) however is from China (googled it), but LiFePO4 battery bank is from Germany, I believe. Wish I had done it a few years back.

Very happy so far as can run inverter all day without worry about battery and charges really fast with B2B.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Are you suggesting we ignore their patents then?

Can’t see why not

 

[EuroTrotters]

Contact Victron Energy and ask the question as none of their products I have seen are made in China.

My inverter from Victron is Chinese

 

[Lenny HB]

Contact Victron Energy and ask the question as none of their products I have seen are made in China.

I thought nearly everything Victron sold was made in China, Votronic are manufactured in Germany but probably truer to say assembled in Germany from Chinese parts.

 

[Flairy]

Buttner Elektronics germany?

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[Lenny HB]

Buttner Elektronics germany?

A lot of their stuff is rebadged Votronic.

 

[Two on Tour]

I thought nearly everything Victron sold was made in China,

Nope, certainly all the Victron MPPT chargers I have are made in Indian and my Victron IP22 main charger I believe was made in Indonesia.

 

[funflair]

Our Victron solar is India I believe but I have seen Victron stuff made in China and that did put me off at first which is why I went with Votronic on the Flair, yes Lenny HB Votronic made Buttner stuff to their specification.

 

[SpeedyDux]

China’s patents?

China doesn’t take much notice of other people’s patents

Not just patents. Read about the "Clone Wars" when Chinese manufacturers copied eg Honda's portable generators, small motorbikes etc, with disregard for Registered Design Rights. Even made the counterfeit engines look exactly the same. How cynical.

 

[Flairy]

Butter on there web site say Buttner made in Germany?

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[Silver-Fox]

Not just patents. Read about the "Clone Wars" when Chinese manufacturers copied eg Honda's portable generators, small motorbikes etc, with disregard for Registered Design Rights. Even made the counterfeit engines look exactly the same. How cynical.

Guess where you can buy a Land Rover Freelander clone

Yep are friends in China

 

[TinaLes]

Compare an Ebespacher Diesel Heater with a Chinese Copy equivalent and see if you spot any difference in the main burner assembly?
Then compare the price of both, make your purchase decision, then wrestle with your human rights conscience for ever
I needed a new PC cooling fan for my Dell Laptop, there were no UK parts available as the whole thing is made in China, the same as every Apple product, they are all made under licence cheaper, so as to amass huge profits, same as many others.
They have us & the world on its knees, as we cannot compete on manufacture costs as they dont follow the same rules of engagement.
Its still our choice at the end of the day, or is it when you need a spare part?
LES

 

[Carpmart]

The decision to outsource large swathes of manufacturing by all G20 countries to China means it’s (nearly) impossible to avoid supporting their totalitarian single party state.

 

[EuroTrotters]

China’s patents?

China doesn’t take much notice of other people’s patents

I recently drove a Chinese built VW car. It had a slow puncture.

So I took out the 12v tyre inflator that had A cigar lighter plug on it.

Thing was, there were no cigar lighter sockets on the car, anywhere. When I took it back to the garage, they couldn’t find a socket.

Odd considering VW designed it.

It did have 4 Type C charging points though, two front, two back.

 

[jongood]

Compare an Ebespacher Diesel Heater with a Chinese Copy equivalent and see if you spot any difference in the main burner assembly?
Then compare the price of both, make your purchase decision, then wrestle with your human rights conscience for ever
I needed a new PC cooling fan for my Dell Laptop, there were no UK parts available as the whole thing is made in China, the same as every Apple product, they are all made under licence cheaper, so as to amass huge profits, same as many others.
They have us & the world on its knees, as we cannot compete on manufacture costs as they dont follow the same rules of engagement.
Its still our choice at the end of the day, or is it when you need a spare part?
LES

I would happily pay more for something not made in PRC.

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[pappajohn]

If nobody takes action against China stealing patents and copyright..... That's what they're doing, stealing.....nothing will change.

 

[nveilleux1]

I know it`s an old post, but never too late to rectify the facts about LFP battery. China stole the patent

There are 3 major patents in the LFP battery industry:

First by the father of Lithium ion batteries and Nobel Prize winner John Goodenough and his team describing the use of transition metals (which includes Iron) and phosphates as cathode materials. This patent was filed in 1997, granted in 2003, and expired in 2017

Second by researchers at University of Montreal and Hydro-Quebec describing how to increase the conductivity of the LFP cathode by coating it in Carbon. Filed in 2000, granted in 2008, and expired in 2020.

Third again by researchers at University of Montreal, Hydro-Quebec, and CNRS describing the synthesis of the above Carbon coating onto the LFP cathode. Filed in 2001, granted in 2007, and expired in 2022.

 

[Gromett]

I know it`s an old post, but never too late to rectify the facts about LFP battery. China stole the patent

There are 3 major patents in the LFP battery industry:

First by the father of Lithium ion batteries and Nobel Prize winner John Goodenough and his team describing the use of transition metals (which includes Iron) and phosphates as cathode materials. This patent was filed in 1997, granted in 2003, and expired in 2017

Second by researchers at University of Montreal and Hydro-Quebec describing how to increase the conductivity of the LFP cathode by coating it in Carbon. Filed in 2000, granted in 2008, and expired in 2020.

Third again by researchers at University of Montreal, Hydro-Quebec, and CNRS describing the synthesis of the above Carbon coating onto the LFP cathode. Filed in 2001, granted in 2007, and expired in 2022.

You have not mentioned the patents held by China. You have not stated how they were stolen, who they were stolen from and how they were stolen.

I have posted elsewhere an update on the patent issue but I can't find it just now.

China signed an agreement with the patent licensing company so that any LiFePO4 cells produced in China would not be subject to any licensing fees. But they were restricted on sales outside of China on which they did have to pay licensing fees from memory.

It is the end of the patents that now means we can have cheap LiFePO4 cells and that china can start exporting en mass.

 

[Guigsy]

Well known for patent theft, and they get away with it.

China has actually done a ton of development on LFP. They didn't invent the formula, but they did all the R&D to industrialise it. This isn't the usual case of them copying the West's homework.