LHD and MOT and the Headlamps

[chrispenrallt]

I have looked at previous posts about this, but I’m still not sure about how the law views it. I took my LHD motorhome to the MOT station today. When I called to collect it they said that I would have to change the headlamps as the beam was not correct. My motorhome is a LHD Carthago Compactline 2015. I have all the previous MOTs and according to my brother who was the previous owner from new there has never been any mention of this when it has been been in for test previously. The chap said he would check with DVLA to see if I could just put stickers or lenses on it.
Does anyone know what the law actually is as I would like to be able to show the guys in the garage tomorrow that I’m not just a dim woman who knows nothing!

 

[Lenny HB]

With the standard bulbs those Hella lights are so dim they wouldn't dazzle whichever way they dipped.

Why do you think I fitted illegal LED's and it still passes MOT's.

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny the van is there already. I took it yesterday, I had no idea about the headlamps being different and also with there being no mention of it on the previous 4 mot certificates. However if they fail it today after me going up there with the info I will think about doing it myself at home ( or getting o h to do it) and then returning to a different MOT test centre.

What I was trying to say was as it has passed previous MOT's they are probably set to flat dipping and you have a picky MOT guy. The flat beam is not a 100% perfect and some MOT testers who are not familiar with Motorhomes fail them.

 

[jongood]

Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying, I thought when one rotated them, they went to the opposite 'kick-up'.

they do and have on all of mine. I'm really confused now Lenny I run for the year with both the kick ups to the middle, this means it falls a little short on the verge of whichever country but doesnt dazzle anyone. just before Mot I turn the left hand one over so it lights the left verge and after the MOT I turn it back again.

 

[JockandRita]

they do and have on all of mine. I'm really confused now Lenny I run for the year with both the kick ups to the middle, this means it falls a little short on the verge of whichever country but doesnt dazzle anyone. just before Mot I turn the left hand one over so it lights the left verge and after the MOT I turn it back again.

Jon, on the Flair I have not bothered to go to the bother that I did on the Hymer. Instead I just lower the beam height using the dash control, for the very odd occasion I drive abroad in the dark.

chrispenrallt. How did you get on today?

Cheers,

Jock.

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[Oldrat]

OP?

 

[chrispenrallt]

Still waiting for them to ring me to say to collect. I’ll be ringing them at 5 pm as I want the van back home now . I’ll let you know how I get on but I’m not optimistic. Think I will be paying for 4 new lamps but I will asking for the old ones back.

 

[jongood]

Jon, on the Flair I have not bothered to go to the bother that I did on the Hymer. Instead I just lower the beam height using the dash control, for the very odd occasion I drive abroad in the dark.

chrispenrallt. How did you get on today?

Cheers,

Jock.

I tried that thanks Jock but seem to drive more miles over here than UK .

 

[Pausim]

If your MoT tester says that flat beam dipping is not allowed then show him the words from the Government site.
“A flat top or other alternative headlamp dipped beam pattern is acceptable as long as all of the beam upper edge, including any ‘peak’ is contained within the appropriate tolerance band.

It’s acceptable for masks or converter kits to be fitted to right hand dip headlamps to temporarily alter the lamp for use in the UK by removing the beam ‘kick-up’ to the right.”

Here is the link. You want section 4.1 and then the drop down at 4.1.2.

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

 

[JockandRita]

I tried that thanks Jock but seem to drive more miles over here than UK .

Ooh, lucky you.
How do you manage that Jon, unless either you or Sue qualifies for EU citizenship.........................or is that another thread?

Cheers,

Jock.

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[JockandRita]

Think I will be paying for 4 new lamps but I will asking for the old ones back.

Seriously chrispenrallt, that is not an option you should be considering, and please don't be fooled into thinking it is.

These Hella projection lamps are fitted to many vehicle types and models, notably older BMW 3 & 5 series cars, as well as BMW Motorcycles. They are almost universal inasmuch that they can be used just about anywhere in the world..........pending the correct adjustment.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[jongood]

Ooh, lucky you.
How do you manage that Jon, unless either you or Sue qualifies for EU citizenship.........................or is that another thread?

Cheers,

Jock.

We just dont do much motorhoming in UK Jock, 2-3 weeks max in Uk and 2-3 months x2 not in UK, Currently In Morocco which doesnt count but prob not going to use both our 90 days allowancess this year

 

[chrispenrallt]

Seriously chrispenrallt, that is not an option you should be considering, and please don't be fooled into thinking it is.

These Hella projection lamps are fitted to many vehicle types and models, notably older BMW 3 & 5 series cars, as well as BMW Motorcycles. They are almost universal inasmuch that they can be used just about anywhere in the world..........pending the correct adjustment.

Cheers,

Jock.

Well I have just phoned the MOT station and they think they might be able to adjust the lights tomorrow. So I’m still in limbo here but I am well armed with all the wonderful replies I have had . It’s no problem to me if they keep the m home up there another night just want to get it done .
The information that Pausim has linked to is also of interest

 

[chrispenrallt]

If your MoT tester says that flat beam dipping is not allowed then show him the words from the Government site.
“A flat top or other alternative headlamp dipped beam pattern is acceptable as long as all of the beam upper edge, including any ‘peak’ is contained within the appropriate tolerance band.

It’s acceptable for masks or converter kits to be fitted to right hand dip headlamps to temporarily alter the lamp for use in the UK by removing the beam ‘kick-up’ to the right.”

Here is the link. You want section 4.1 and then the drop down at 4.1.2.

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

Thank you so much for this information

 

[huck999]

Our van is LHD. When bought, I was told lights were uk compliant. MOT tester said not. Good chap though, sent the boy out to buy some converters and used their light machine to position them correctly. Sailed through every mot since so must be OK. The converters stay on even on the continent.

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[jongood]

If your MoT tester says that flat beam dipping is not allowed then show him the words from the Government site.
“A flat top or other alternative headlamp dipped beam pattern is acceptable as long as all of the beam upper edge, including any ‘peak’ is contained within the appropriate tolerance band.

It’s acceptable for masks or converter kits to be fitted to right hand dip headlamps to temporarily alter the lamp for use in the UK by removing the beam ‘kick-up’ to the right.”

Here is the link. You want section 4.1 and then the drop down at 4.1.2.

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

Are flat beam headlights available to buy then? I've had a look at the Hella website but can't see any that are described as flat beam.

 

[Pausim]

Are flat beam headlights available to buy then? I've had a look at the Hella website but can't see any that are described as flat beam.

We have been told earlier in the thread that these projector headlights can be adjusted to flat beam dipping. This is used to adjust the usual left or right hand kick up to make them suitable for use in countries that drive on the other side of the road.

 

[funflair]

Are flat beam headlights available to buy then? I've had a look at the Hella website but can't see any that are described as flat beam.

I think the flat dip is for countries that drive on either side Jon

Light distribution - dipped beam & main beam | HELLA

<p>Light distribution | Light distribution of dipped beam ✓ Light distribution of main beam and country road light ✓ Information for the automotive workshop ✓</p>

www.hella.com

 

[Rob Turner]

 

[Lenny HB]

they do and have on all of mine. I'm really confused now Lenny I run for the year with both the kick ups to the middle, this means it falls a little short on the verge of whichever country but doesnt dazzle anyone. just before Mot I turn the left hand one over so it lights the left verge and after the MOT I turn it back again.

You are confusing me now, if you have Hella Projector lamps they will can be set to two positions, kick (side dependant on lamp) or flat.

These Hella projection lamps are fitted to many vehicle types and models, notably older BMW 3 & 5 series cars, as well as BMW Motorcycles. They are almost universal inasmuch that they can be used just about anywhere in the world..........pending the correct adjustment.

They are available in two types LHD (kick up to the right) & RHD (kick up to the left). Both are adjustable for flat dipping.

Are flat beam headlights available to buy then? I've had a look at the Hella website but can't see any that are described as flat beam.

I think the flat dip is for countries that drive on either side Jon

Flat beam headlights go back to the 70's, the UK changed to the kick up beam a few years before other European countries.

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[Lenny HB]

Still waiting for them to ring me to say to collect. I’ll be ringing them at 5 pm as I want the van back home now . I’ll let you know how I get on but I’m not optimistic. Think I will be paying for 4 new lamps but I will asking for the old ones back.

No way do you need to change the headlights they are Hella Projector lamps which you can adjust.
If you did change them you would only need to change the two dip beam ones they are about £60 each (nearer £200 from Carthago).

 

[OutTheOffice]

All I can add is that on a previous van RHD I fitted those cheap stick on headlight adaptors for a foreign trip. Took for MOT and I suddenly remembered they were still on. Tester said no issue, it passed ok plus another 3-4 years after that.

Interesting, my car went in for an MOT with the headlight adopters on, when I picked it up, the chap at the garage said they had to take them off or would have failed. Seems inconsistent

 

[chrispenrallt]

View attachment 722515

Thanks for this information.

 

[chrispenrallt]

No way do you need to change the headlights they are Hella Projector lamps which you can adjust.
If you did change them you would only need to change the two dip beam ones they are about £60 each (nearer £200 from Carthago).

Thank you for this info, I will be informing them that they only need to change 2 lamps if they insist on doing so. I feel a fool that I did not even think about the lights being LHD

 

[dazandandrea]

Interesting, my car went in for an MOT with the headlight adopters on, when I picked it up, the chap at the garage said they had to take them off or would have failed. Seems inconsistent

Mot inconsistent? Nooooo

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[Lenny HB]

Thank you for this info, I will be informing them that they only need to change 2 lamps if they insist on doing so. I feel a fool that I did not even think about the lights being LHD

Did you brother import the van or did he buy in the UK as if it was bought in the UK it would have come with the headlamps set to flat dipping.

Once you have checked they are set ti flat dipping if it still doesn't pass I would take it to another MOT station.

If you get someone to change the lamps although you can buy them quite cheap they are awkward to get at and if you are paying someone it might get expensive. but they really do not need changing.

There are hundreds of us on Fun with left hand drive vans and we don't get these problems.

 

[JockandRita]

I feel a fool that I did not even think about the lights being LHD

Don't. As Lenny says there are hundreds of us driving about with the same lights, with it being almost two decades now for us, and never failed an MOT on either MH, "so no problemo Senhora".

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[jongood]

View attachment 722515

This is similar to all Ive seen,
turn clockwise as pic from rear = uk,
anticlockwise = Europe.
Ive never seen these with a flat setting, in fact i can't see how it could work

 

[JockandRita]

This is similar to all Ive seen,
turn clockwise as pic from rear = uk,
anticlockwise = Europe.
Ive never seen these with a flat setting, in fact i can't see how it could work

You and me both Jon. In fact when I initially had the Hymer lamps adjusted by Peter Hambilton (Hymer fame), he labelled the frame above each light with EU <<< >>> UK. This kicked my beam from right to left and vice versa.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[funflair]

You and me both Jon. In fact when I initially had the Hymer lamps adjusted by Peter Hambilton (Hymer fame), he labelled the frame above each light with EU <<< >>> UK. This kicked my beam from right to left and vice versa.

Cheers,

Jock.

I think you will find the Flair the same Jock

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[JockandRita]

I think you will find the Flair the same Jock

I've been lazy with the Flair Martin, ie, I just turned the beam down using the dash control, whereas in the Hymer, it wasn't working due to the bellows having perished, and I couldn't access those little screws at the rear of the lamps..............but I knew of a man that can.

Cheers

Jock.