Juicy Brucie - cable to use EV charging points as EHU for motorhomes?

[Ridgeway]

You think they'd be ok with you camping in their car park? At their EV points?

Why not, Tesla’s do and if you’re not hogging the spot and you are paying for the leccy then i don’t see the issue.

 

[Lenny HB]

If you want to fill your hab batteries with a relatively short stop, you need a very fast mains charger. Most of us only have 30 amps or so. Which will quite happily fill a large bank of lithium overnight. But that's hogging a charger for a very long time.

I have a 120 amp charger that still only gives me 30ah into the batteries in 15 min.

 

[Guigsy]

I have a 120 amp charger that still only gives me 30ah into the batteries in 15 min.

You are definitely not normal Lenny.

 

[Guigsy]

Why not, Tesla’s do and if you’re not hogging the spot and you are paying for the leccy then i don’t see the issue.

If it's a 22kW charger and you're using 0.5kW (40 amp charger). And you're probably only going to buy 4kWh (~300Ah) of juice while sitting there for 8 hours.

 

[Just smiffy]

Is there limits on charging at these points…?

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[autorouter]

There's literally thousands of these smaller Type2 chargers around. Most Lidls have a couple, so do most Morrisons and Tescos, and there's hundreds of others outside hotels and other car parks. Even a lot of lampposts in London have them. When you drive past them, they are mostly not in use. Yes, it's possible to find a busy site, and block an EV wanting to use it. But in all the time I've been doing this, it's never happened.

I know how fast I am using battery charge, how long it will last, and when I need to refill. I can choose a time and a place that's OK. If I'm on a motorway, I'm driving anyway and the B2B is charging the battery. When I need an EV charger it's when I'm staying in one area for a few days, so I can look around (using 'find-an-EV-charger' type apps) and choose a vacant charger.

My charger is equivalent to 140A at 12V, ie 1680W. In 1 hour it will put in 1680Wh, ie 1.7kWh. It will fill my batteries from flat in 4 hours max. So if not too flat a couple of hours is enough. If you're thinking of doing this, it's a good idea to get a fast charger to charge your batteries as fast as possible. Not normally top of the priority list when buying a charger to charge from campsite EHU.

 

[autorouter]

Is there limits on charging at these points…?

Not sure what kind of limits you mean. A Type 2 charger has a limit of 22kW, but that's for a 3-phase charger. If using a single-phase charger like a normal motorhome charger, then the limit is 1/3 of this, ie about 7kW. For comparison, that would be 32A from the mains plug. Motorhome inlets have plugs and sockets designed for 16A max.

There is electronics in the cable to communicate with the EV charge point, and two of the 7 Type 2 pins are for that communication. The electronics can tell the EV charge point that the cable can only take 16A, so the EV charge point will keep the power within that limit. The cable also tells the EV charge point to start charging, and to lock the plug so it can't be removed. When full, or at any time you choose even if not full, you can unlock the cable and disconnect. You may not want to wait until the battery is 100% full. There's never a situation like on a campsite where you can disconnect while the cable is still live.

The motorhome charger will only take what it requires. Most motorhome mains chargers are about 20A at 12V, ie 20 x12 = 240W, so will not stress a 7000W EV charger at all. It would take 5 hours to fill a 200Ah battery from 50% to 100%. If you are doing this often then it's worth getting the biggest mains charger you can find, as long as the batteries can take the amps.

My mains charger is equivalent to 140A at 12V, ie about 1.7kW, and it still doesn't stress the EV charger. It puts in a useful amount of charge in a couple of hours. I can boil a kettle or use an air fryer while connected to the EV charge point, and it still won't put any stress on the 7000W EV charge point.

 

[hja]

You think they'd be ok with you camping in their car park? At their EV points?

There are supermarket car parks that allow legitimate overnight stops. I think most are accessed via Horizon Parking. So pull up for the night. Park near to a charging point, charge overnight, then move elsewhere in the car park first thing in the morning. Can’t see a problem.

 

[autorouter]

There are supermarket car parks that allow legitimate overnight stops. I think most are accessed via Horizon Parking. So pull up for the night. Park near to a charging point, charge overnight, then move elsewhere in the car park first thing in the morning. Can’t see a problem.

I agree, but usually I stop by the charger for a couple of hours, do some shopping, maybe make a meal or eat in the cafe, then go and find somewhere nicer to stay the night.

 

[Just smiffy]

Not sure what kind of limits you mean. A Type 2 charger has a limit of 22kW, but that's for a 3-phase charger. If using a single-phase charger like a normal motorhome charger, then the limit is 1/3 of this, ie about 7kW. For comparison, that would be 32A from the mains plug. Motorhome inlets have plugs and sockets designed for 16A max.

There is electronics in the cable to communicate with the EV charge point, and two of the 7 Type 2 pins are for that communication. The electronics can tell the EV charge point that the cable can only take 16A, so the EV charge point will keep the power within that limit. The cable also tells the EV charge point to start charging, and to lock the plug so it can't be removed. When full, or at any time you choose even if not full, you can unlock the cable and disconnect. You may not want to wait until the battery is 100% full. There's never a situation like on a campsite where you can disconnect while the cable is still live.

The motorhome charger will only take what it requires. Most motorhome mains chargers are about 20A at 12V, ie 20 x12 = 240W, so will not stress a 7000W EV charger at all. It would take 5 hours to fill a 200Ah battery from 50% to 100%. If you are doing this often then it's worth getting the biggest mains charger you can find, as long as the batteries can take the amps.

My mains charger is equivalent to 140A at 12V, ie about 1.7kW, and it still doesn't stress the EV charger. It puts in a useful amount of charge in a couple of hours. I can boil a kettle or use an air fryer while connected to the EV charge point, and it still won't put any stress on the 7000W EV charge point.

Limit on the time it takes to charge was what I was thinking….

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[autorouter]

Limit on the time it takes to charge was what I was thinking….

Not sure about that. A normal EV has a battery of 40kWh at least, so if 25% full would require 30kWh to fill it. If the charger is 7kW, that would take 30 / 7 hours, ie just over 4 hours.

The trouble is with those car parks with a time limit. I once overstayed a 2 hour limit by a few minutes in a Tesco car park, and got a penalty charge in the post. I replied showing that I had been charging my vehicle, showing my payment, inviting them to check with the charger's data log, and they cancelled the charge. I suspect I was lucky and the time limit still applies in those car parks.

 

[interbear]

If it was £50, it'd be useful at home to plug into a home EV point as I don't have a 3 pin on the front of the house. I'm not sure it'll be that useful on the move though.

Exactly the use case I have in mind. I currently run an EHU cable through a window to the van to charge the leisure batteries, plugged into an internal wall socket. But I have an EV charge point already so would be convenient to use that. Pricy though, might be cheaper to get an electrician to install a standard external wall socket.

 

[Guigsy]

Exactly the use case I have in mind. I currently run an EHU cable through a window to the van to charge the leisure batteries, plugged into an internal wall socket. But I have an EV charge point already so would be convenient to use that. Pricy though, might be cheaper to get an electrician to install a standard external wall socket.

I'm thinking the same. I'm about to have my EV charger installed. Which is going to add a spur from the meter to the front of the house. I wonder if it's allowed to tap into that feed and add a weatherproof 3 pin (or commando) socket outside. Same as you, to avoid a cable running down the hallway and out the window.

 

[Two on Tour]

I'm thinking the same. I'm about to have my EV charger installed. Which is going to add a spur from the meter to the front of the house. I wonder if it's allowed to tap into that feed and add a weatherproof 3 pin (or commando) socket outside. Same as you, to avoid a cable running down the hallway and out the window.

If your EV is V2L, would topping up your MH hab battery from your car be an option ?

 

[interbear]

If your EV is V2L, would topping up your MH hab battery from your car be an option ?

I hadn’t thought of that! Our Kia Niro EV does have V2L, never found a use case for it yet. Maybe that’s it. Although the 3 pin socket is in the rear passenger compartment of the car so would also require leaving a window open, on the car rather than the house.

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[autorouter]

I'm thinking the same. I'm about to have my EV charger installed. Which is going to add a spur from the meter to the front of the house. I wonder if it's allowed to tap into that feed and add a weatherproof 3 pin (or commando) socket outside. Same as you, to avoid a cable running down the hallway and out the window.

Get them to run an extra wire - usually it's no extra effort to run two wires when they are already running one. Installing the socket on the wall is easy once the wire is in place. And at the supply end, just add a 16A double-pole RCBO.

 

[Two on Tour]

I hadn’t thought of that! Our Kia Niro EV does have V2L, never found a use case for it yet. Maybe that’s it. Although the 3 pin socket is in the rear passenger compartment of the car so would also require leaving a window open, on the car rather than the house.

The V2L cables I have seen on the MG4, just plug into the car's charging socket and have a fly-lead with a 3 pin socket on the end, so it's only your charging flap open.

 

[The Wino]

The V2L cables I have seen on the MG4, just plug into the car's charging socket and have a fly-lead with a 3 pin socket on the end, so it's only your charging flap open.

View attachment 985173

You can also just get an adapter and plug an extension lead into that

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-Electric-Discharge-Supports-Hyundai/dp/B0D8W3V2ZG/?tag=mhf04-21

Although probably not as good from a waterproof point of view.

 

[starquake]

I'm thinking the same. I'm about to have my EV charger installed. Which is going to add a spur from the meter to the front of the house. I wonder if it's allowed to tap into that feed and add a weatherproof 3 pin (or commando) socket outside. Same as you, to avoid a cable running down the hallway and out the window.

We had a 32 amp commando fitted. Charge the EV (with a commando to type 2 cable) and the van on a single socket. Be warned you need a special cable for EV charging and you need PEN protection (which is an about £180 unit on the wall) to do it safe by the wiring regs.

But you could easily spur a second feed off too (most EV chargers use a second consumer unit these days, usually with multiple "ways". You wont get that kind of service off Octopus, etc.

Dad when he had his Zappi installed also had a local sparky uprate his feed to his Garage to support 64A, so he could easily support a 16A commando + the Zappi + the freezer in the garage (the entire Garage's electrics were refreshed). He paid about £1200 including the Zappi, which alone was about half of the costs (there was a run of about 20m of steel armor cable able to handle the 64A too). But that was likely well below cost if a big boy sparky from a major cmopany was used as the parts alone were likely £8-900 of that.

 

[Northernraider]

Yes, it's for 'Type 2' connectors, which are not the 'captive cable' type. Some EV chargers, like Tesla ones for example, will not take Type 2 connectors. However most EV chargers have a Type 2 somewhere. They will have the higher power (DC) ChaDeMo and/or (AC and DC) CCS, but also the (AC) Type 2 is usually also there somewhere. It's standard all over the UK and Europe.

An ordinary 10m Type2 cable will cost at least £100, more likely £150. This special 'Juicy Brucie' cable costs £195, and with the code shown in the video you can get it for £180. Cheaper and lighter than a generator.

But more expensive and heavier than a good b2b

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[MisterB]

Spare a thought for those of us with Type 1 charging points .....lol

Though we did install a 6mm cable to the charger from the additional dedicated consumer unit so if we do get an EV with Type 2 charging, it's just a case of swapping the charging lead over.

We already have a specific commando socket that we plug the motorhome into on a completely different circuit.