Itsy bitsy teenie weenie payloads

[tonyidle]

For coaches and HGV’s an age limit law has recently been passed. The SI to implement it has yet to be published, but is expected before too long.

Government bans old coach, bus and lorry tyres from roads in new measures to improve road safety

Tyres aged 10 years and older will be banned.

www.gov.uk

We were, I thought, discussing motorhomes. I know nothing about the laws applicable to HGV or PSV.

 

[nicholsong]

Pretty much unusable at 3500kg then

Definitely.

To be fair I think N&B did not market them at 3500kg but the dealers may have ordered them at that. Certainly ours had a N&B plate at 3500kg but the V5c had 3850kg as the Revenue weight and N&B happily supplied us with another plate at 3850kg FOC and we can happily work with that with full tanks, so that is why I suspect the 'unladen weight' quoted was really MIRO.

Geoff

 

[POH]

Hi we have an autotrail imala 730 with 330kg payload if I take off 70 for wife and 25 for awning 20 for solar panel 40 for clothes and 40 for bits that you need we are left with 135kg no water as I don't run with full tanks, so just cooking and kitchen bits so how much more do you need or should we be looking at upgrading the van.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Hi we have an autotrail imala 730 with 330kg payload if I take off 70 for wife and 25 for awning 20 for solar panel 40 for clothes and 40 for bits that you need we are left with 135kg no water as I don't run with full tanks, so just cooking and kitchen bits so how much more do you need or should we be looking at upgrading the van.

If it works for you
No point in uprating it for the sake of it.

Are those guesstimates or have you weighed?

How many seatbelts - if you take passengers without offloading kit?

Fuel, LPG?

 

[POH]

Guesstimate but near as dam it only 2 belts ,as for fuel do plod count that as it reduces as you travel, and don't carry a load of crap that is not needed .

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[Jim]

Hi we have an autotrail imala 730 with 330kg payload if I take off 70 for wife and 25 for awning 20 for solar panel 40 for clothes and 40 for bits that you need we are left with 135kg no water as I don't run with full tanks, so just cooking and kitchen bits so how much more do you need or should we be looking at upgrading the van.

Don't worry too much, just make a point of getting it weighed. Autotrail gave you a figure but don't forget the 5% fudge If they have estimated and are 5% wrong in their favour then rather than 135kg of payload you could be 15kg over already.

If you come to the Peterborough show in in April and rally with us, come fully loaded and we'll get you weighed

 

[Langtoftlad]

If, and its a big if, the only weight that matters is the weight when you're stopped, so yes fuel counts.

I suspect we can get a bit pedantic... but there's a difference often, about what's technically 'legal and what weight would be unsafe.

As long as you know where you are, weight wise, and are comfortable with that.

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi we have an autotrail imala 730 with 330kg payload if I take off 70 for wife and 25 for awning 20 for solar panel 40 for clothes and 40 for bits that you need we are left with 135kg no water as I don't run with full tanks, so just cooking and kitchen bits so how much more do you need or should we be looking at upgrading the van.

Our payload based on MIRO is 1350kg we have 300kg spare. We do have an awning, 3 batteries always run with 160 Lt water tank full & carry E bikes and a washing machine and I think we travel light.

 

[POH]

Our payload based on MIRO is 1350kg we have 300kg spare. We do have an awning, 3 batteries always run with 160 Lt water tank full & carry E bikes and a washing machine and I think we travel light.

Lenny how deep are your pockets , if you ever drop your wallet please let everyone know ASAP so we can avoid the earthquake it will cause , I whinge at getting 28 mpg with all that stuff you must be down to 15 at best .

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny how deep are your pockets , if you ever drop your wallet please let everyone know ASAP so we can avoid the earthquake it will cause , I whinge at getting 28 mpg with all that stuff you must be down to 15 at best .

Around 25/26 drops to 22/23 with a strong headwind when cruising at 70 or in the mountains. Only running at 4200kg.
Wallet is very light I'm a real tight arse, ask my mate JonP .

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[UptheGas]

Really interesting thread and lots to think about . Think our new ( to us ) Motorhome has a payload of 340kg which I naively thought would be ample . Might have to look into getting it upgraded as got a c1 license.

 

[colyboy]

I would guess after looking at all those payloads, that 99% of motorhomes on the road are over weight at 3.5T.

Colyboy

 

[The Wino]

I would guess after looking at all those payloads, that 99% of motorhomes on the road are over weight at 3.5T.

Colyboy

I doubt it's that high ours was well in when we weighed it loaded. I think the longer and newer the more likely to be over

 

[Jim]

I forget the actual figures but at Peterborough 3 years ago I think 45% of those weighed as they turned up were overweight, 10% of those were seriously overloaded.

 

[busby]

For water only:

1. Autotrail - All water tanks drained.
2. Mobilvetta- All water tanks drained.
3. Pilote - 20-litres.
4. Hobby - 10-litres.
5. Benimar - 50-litres.

The five brands above include 90% fuel but the tank sizes may differ, i.e. 60 or 90-litre tanks.

And I doubt you could trust any of their figures..BUSBY.

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[busby]

I run with an empty tank due to payload issues. I just put water in when I arrive on site. Don't see a problem with that.

Not so good if using aires,, BUSBY.

 

[Nirvanauk]

Not so good if using aires,, BUSBY.

Not a problem as I don’t use Aires.but if I did it wouldn’t be a problem either.

 

[Conal]

In Brownhills now. They have two Eldiss 7.34m 3500kg motorhomes in; one is 4 berth, 4 seats, the other 6 berth, 6 seats. I think they have new lightweight chassis but can’t have much payload when “full” - will check tomorrow.

 

[busby]

Personally I think there is far more to the payload issue than simply quoting figures.

First question one has to decide, is whether one needs to be under the 3500kg limit for driving licences. I have recently turned 70 and decided not to keep the higher limit and go through the faff of medicals every 3 years. My wife will be there soon, and she drives too, so that would be 2 lots of medicals.

Secondly is motorhome use. If staying no more than a week or two at a time, and staying on recognised sites, then one doesn't need to carry much water or too many clothes. Going for long periods often means sets of both winter and summer clothes etc.

Thirdly there is the question of keeping the junk down. A large payload allowance means one can simply throw more and more junk in without thinking, but then fuel consumption will suffer as a result.

Fourthly there are the different road regulations to consider if over 3500kg.

Finally while one might consider a light van a benefit giving more payload, I'm glad to have a more solidly built Benimar and a lesser payload. My lightly built new Elddis caravan I bought last year literally fell apart within the first month of use. Here I'm not talking about the minor issue of loads of cupboard doors and hinges working loose the first time they are used, but cupboards falling off the wall, large plywood surrounds falling off the ceiling, and even the roof itself starting to collapse. For instance, the nearest Elddis motorhome equivalent to my Benimar is over 200kg lighter. Most of that weight saving will be in the construction methinks.

Trouble is some vans plated at 3.5 tonnes are overloaded before clothes,food, etc are loaded,,Fuel,driver and passenger and that's your lot..Think you need at least 500 kg for a couple.BUSBY.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I forget the actual figures but at Peterborough 3 years ago I think 45% of those weighed as they turned up were overweight, 10% of those were seriously overloaded.

Yes, that is pretty well what they said to me. One van was 600kg over according to the Mine was 800kg………..…….
…….under!

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[nev robinson]

Our florium magister74mlf came in with two adults small dog,and full tank of fuel at 3340kg left with 160 kg for food and some water…

 

[scotzsue]

In Brownhills now. They have two Eldiss 7.34m 3500kg motorhomes in; one is 4 berth, 4 seats, the other 6 berth, 6 seats. I think they have new lightweight chassis but can’t have much payload when “full” - will check tomorrow.

Our lightweight Alko chassis ona Swift 6 berth 6 seatbelt motorhome left us with just over 600K payload after, second battery, solar and bike rack, we took it over the weighbridge several times and always had payload left over, so can be done. Taht particular chassis did not allow for a towbar to be fitted, at least none available at the time, believe that is not the case now as a modification can be made.

 

[Conal]

scotzsue Yes, the salesman told us that none of the lightweight Alko chassis can take a tow bar. The motorhomes look really nice and the drop down beds look to be on another level (forgive the pun) compared with ones I saw a few years ago.

 

[pelican]

For water only:

1. Autotrail - All water tanks drained.
2. Mobilvetta- All water tanks drained.
3. Pilote - 20-litres.
4. Hobby - 10-litres.
5. Benimar - 50-litres.

The five brands above include 90% fuel but the tank sizes may differ, i.e. 60 or 90-litre tanks.

Blimey Blue Knight is this a hobby of yours!

 

[Lenny HB]

Blimey Blue Knight is this a hobby of yours!

Yep, he's worse than me.

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[Keep Right On]

I'm looking to make a list of new vans that have the smallest most useless payloads, Can you post some contenders here? Cheers in anticipation.

Waiting for delivery of new Bailey Adamo 75 4DL which has 390kg payload after allowing for drivers 75kg, 3/4 water and 3/4 fuel and 1 x 11kg gas so pretty useless by the time awning 30kg, passenger (weight not disclosed), tools, fire extinguisher, tv, pots, pans, plates, cutlery etc.
So I'm going to uprate via SV probably - what surprised me talking to the dealer today is that the 3.5 can be uprated to 4.25 as a paper uprate without fiddling with the suspension BECAUSE thats how they start life in the factory before the manufacturers downrate to sell to the non C1 buyers. Isnt it more sensible to leave at higher weight and then for the dealers to downrate for a specific buyer on purchase. Too sensible perhaps?

 

[lunarman]

So I'm going to uprate via SV probably - what surprised me talking to the dealer today is that the 3.5 can be uprated to 4.25 as a paper uprate without fiddling with the suspension BECAUSE thats how they start life in the factory

I would check that with SV Tech. This is the Ford vin plate from a new Swift Voyager 584 which uses the same chassis as the Adamo.

The combined weight allowed on the axles is 4100 which is the most the MAM can be. The train weight would remain at 4250 which give only 100kg of towing capacity. Therefore no fitting of towbar!

This is the reulting Vin plate from swift after conversion.

No train weight allowance. When I spoke to a dealer at the Shepton Show he said that they would have to get a new COC from the converter to uprate the weights.

 

[BeeHappy]

If, and its a big if, the only weight that matters is the weight when you're stopped, so yes fuel counts.

I suspect we can get a bit pedantic... but there's a difference often, about what's technically 'legal and what weight would be unsafe.

As long as you know where you are, weight wise, and are comfortable with that.

I am of the understanding that if you’re stopped and weighed and you have a couple of empty passenger seats or an empty fuel tank, then the old bill will add 75kg per empty seat and a weight allowance to take your fuel tank to full. This is added to your weight and that decides if you’re over or not.

For example I weighed my van last week. Was 3140kg with minimal food and clothes, only me on board, full tank of fuel… MAM is 3500kg, so no problem… but it’s a 6berth. So 5x75=375kg added to 3140kg=3515kg. So technically at 3140kg I was over weight by 15kg.

Is this understanding correct. I was told this on good authority so I do believe it and it does unfortunately kinda make sense.

 

[Lenny HB]

I am of the understanding that if you’re stopped and weighed and you have a couple of empty passenger seats or an empty fuel tank, then the old bill will add 75kg per empty seat and a weight allowance to take your fuel tank to full. This is added to your weight and that decides if you’re over or not.

That sounds like a right yarn, you can only be prosecuted if you are over weight, at the time of the weight check.

 

[Jonno1103]

1. Autotrail Apache 632: 209kg.

2. Autotrail Apache 634: 199kg.

3. Autotrail Tracker RS: 229kg.

......these payloads are calculated once the 6kg media pack is added (a standard fit).

...Of which Auto Trail no longer build any Apache or the Tracker RS and haven't done so for a couple of years now.

I wouldn't go by online calculators either as they're designed to protect a coachbuilders liability. Auto Trail advertise the F70 as having a 500KG payload, nope, ours came factory fresh with 604KG with 2 x 6kg gas bottles added. With all of the factory cost options it has a 510KG payload.

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