Is this parking sign actually legal? ie parking height restriction?

[Gellyneck]

For those under 60 that never learnt feet and inches at school
7'6" is 2.3m

Surely 2.3m is 7' 6 1/2"?
The extra 1/2" makes all the difference, well so the wife says!

 

[Minxy]

Surely 2.3m is 7' 6 1/2"?
The extra 1/2" makes all the difference, well so the wife says!

For those that it REALLY matters for it's actually a fraction over 7' 6 1/2" ... not that I've bean measuring.

 

[Rapido925M]

One local Council operated carpark restricts vehicles to "under 35cwt". Jac Reet Smug will be most impressed.

Gordon

 

[nicholsong]

From other forums and threads I thought that all restriction orders had to state on the sign under what TRO the sign had been erected, and therefore if it did not do so it is invalid. I think it can be on the reverse of the sign.

Am I correct?

Geoff

 

[cmcardle75]

Thanks, I am familiar with the Red route system, my tongue in cheek point was: at what point does stopping become parking. The signs are on marked parking bays so the 'no stopping' part of the sign is completely pointless. It appears symptomatic of the tendency to micro-manage things without thinking them through.

Parking isn't a legal term when it comes to restrictions. We have "waiting" and "stopping" either of which might be banned or permitted according to signage. "Waiting" is what we refer to as parking. Halting the vehicle, getting out and walking away. "Stopping" means briefly halting in order to load or unload goods and passengers, whilst the driver remains near the vehicle and whilst loading operations are continuously in progress. Once the process is finished, you need to drive away, or it starts to count as "Waiting". Normally, it doesn't even count as stopping if you briefly allow a passenger (without goods) to get out. However, this exemption does not apply to red routes, where even this counts as stopping and you can be fined.

Summary: "waiting" is what normal people call "parking". "stopping" is what normal people call "loading". It's not about the length of time. It is about whether loading is actually taking place.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PaulC70]

We struggled with parking our 7m Sprinter whilst there in December. Drove round for ages, eventually spotted a traffic warden and asked him where to park.
He directed us to the B&M shop carparks where after going through a short stay part with marked out spaces there was a large, bit muddy at the time, area with no marked bays, ended up at the far end in the muddy bit. It was full then so guessing it’s like that most of the time.
Worth checking it out if you need somewhere to park.

Generally we found it difficult to park in the towns up that area.

Shawn

? There isn't a B&M in north berwick, are you thinking Berwick upon Tweed perchance?

 

[Spriddler]

Surely 2.3m is 7' 6 1/2"?
The extra 1/2" makes all the difference, well so the wife says!

Or did she say: "An extra 1/2" would make all the difference".

 

[maison]

We have come across a few “Max height 2metres” while touring Brittany. It looks like a cheaper way of restricting parking than using actual height barriers.

 

[Gellyneck]

Or did she say: "An extra 1/2" would make all the difference".

How would I know? You don't expect me to pay attention when she's talking!

 

[Gellyneck]

For those that it REALLY matters for it's actually a fraction over 7' 6 1/2" ... not that I've bean measuring.

It was a cold day up here when I measured!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Nigel P]

Parking isn't a legal term when it comes to restrictions. We have "waiting" and "stopping" either of which might be banned or permitted according to signage. "Waiting" is what we refer to as parking. Halting the vehicle, getting out and walking away. "Stopping" means briefly halting in order to load or unload goods and passengers, whilst the driver remains near the vehicle and whilst loading operations are continuously in progress. Once the process is finished, you need to drive away, or it starts to count as "Waiting". Normally, it doesn't even count as stopping if you briefly allow a passenger (without goods) to get out. However, this exemption does not apply to red routes, where even this counts as stopping and you can be fined.

Summary: "waiting" is what normal people call "parking". "stopping" is what normal people call "loading". It's not about the length of time. It is about whether loading is actually taking place.

Yes I take your point about the difference between common usage and legal jargon. Yet the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 has chapter and verse on 'parking' designations and arrangements. It does not refer to waiting places but 'parking' therefore it must be a legal entity. My point was about unnecessary confusion caused by poor traffic management, it is a bit like building office blocks, much better to knock down and start from scratch than tinkering around the edges. It seems some authorities try and tweek existing TROs rather than apply for a new one.

 

[aleclitchfiel]

I've already emailed them Waiting for a reply and thought Id post here, we only went on a day trip and spent about £150 in the town and have it earmarked to go back again but the parking is what puts me off to be honest. I've asked them to clarify the sign and bylaw as well as suggest any other parking for a motorhome in the area.

Alec vw35lt, December last year we spent a day in wells next the sea we parked up in the port carpark no barrier so we payed the £5 for the day, one on and fine dropped though the door for £100.00 we payed by card and kept the receipt, we sent it off to the address on the fine, 3 wks later fine quashed. Will go spend my money in this place again.

 

[Ian Bosman]

So, our recent week round the uk included some time in North Berwick (which is gorgeous) but my first parking spot near the beach (due to wifes mobility) had a sign same as below beside it. Now, is it legal to say no parking based on height, I've googled but seem to be at a loss?

View attachment 582297

Have taught Design Technology in schools between 1963 and 2003 I am always amazed that the use of the metric system is not more widespread since in 1972 when I returned from Zambia to find D&T had converted to metric measure. All European neighbours use exclusively metric so it would be interesting how they view the sign. I believe that a By-Law is in place to preserve the view from the window.

 

[Tonks]

Dont get this blocking light and views who owns the light and the view ? Everyone not just the house owner on the prom.

True, but if it was my house and large vehicles constantly parked right outside so all I could see was their sides I wouldn't be that happy. Plus, light blocking is a legal consideration - just look at planning requirements for extensions.

There's a car park near New Milton which has height restrictions and 'no camper' rules because of large vehicles blocking the view/light from nearby properties and in that case the vehicles are on the other side of the road from the houses/flats!

I live in a cottage with thick walls and small windows. My van has to be parked right next to it. This means that from one of my living room windows my view is largely of my van, and it significantly reduces the light, which is already not great owing to the aforementioned small window situation. It's one of the reasons I've not gone for a larger van or a high top version.

I choose to live here and keep my van on my drive. But if I lived somewhere where others in bigger vehicles could park in the same way and did so constantly I wouldn't be very happy.

 

[PaulC70]

As an update this is the email I received yesterday.

"
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry.

There are vehicle Height restrictions written into the Traffic Regulation Orders in certain areas in North Berwick along the beach front for example. However vehicles displaying blue badges are exempt from this.

There are also car parks at St Andrew Street, Kirk Ports and Quality Street which are exempt from height restrictions in the Town Centre.

Please note that the safest way is to make sure that you check the on street parking signs when you park up as these shall give clear guidance on any restrictions."

It sounds pretty vague and I've replied asking (again) for a link to or a copy to the TRO

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Claire Ambler]

You said it all when you said parking near the beach.
You can put those restrictions down to inconsiderate motorhomers parking there and staying overnight or longer.
Realistically we (motorhome owners) have brought this upon ourselves because of the selfish attitude of a small minority.
Try parking anywhere on the Mediterranean coast between Monaco and St Tropez, ALL motorhome parking is banned

 

[PaulC70]

You said it all when you said parking near the beach.
You can put those restrictions down to inconsiderate motorhomers parking there and staying overnight or longer.
Realistically we (motorhome owners) have brought this upon ourselves because of the selfish attitude of a small minority.
Try parking anywhere on the Mediterranean coast between Monaco and St Tropez, ALL motorhome parking is banned

Not really true though is it?
If it was down to people overnighting then I would expect signs saying no overnighting or limiting the time one can park for free eg 4 hrs and no return within a certain time period.

 

[Pausim]

Perhaps the locals don’t think our pretty white boxes fit in with their Conservation Area.

 

[Ninjabob]

And to think there are some people who think we have lost the plot because we tow a SMART

 

[Zakattak]

Please note that the safest way is to make sure that you check the on street parking signs when you park up as these shall give clear guidance on any restrictions."

So if i park up and then check the on street parking sign which restricts me parking am I already in breach of the parking regulations.
Excuse would be sorry Mr TW I parked up to check the parking sign

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PaulC70]

Well they have replied to be fair with a copy of the appropriate bylaw / schedules.
Basically it does ban all vehicles over the stated height 24 hrs a day :-( Although blue badge holders are exempt.

 

[minesapint]

Just tell them you've no idea what 7' 6" is in real money and at 3.5m high you're plenty low enough

7'6" is real money, the other measurement is foreign, .

 

[GJH]

So if i park up and then check the on street parking sign which restricts me parking am I already in breach of the parking regulations.
Excuse would be sorry Mr TW I parked up to check the parking sign

No, because you would simply be making a responsible check before moving on again.

 

[GJH]

As an update this is the email I received yesterday.

"
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry.

There are vehicle Height restrictions written into the Traffic Regulation Orders in certain areas in North Berwick along the beach front for example. However vehicles displaying blue badges are exempt from this.

There are also car parks at St Andrew Street, Kirk Ports and Quality Street which are exempt from height restrictions in the Town Centre.

Please note that the safest way is to make sure that you check the on street parking signs when you park up as these shall give clear guidance on any restrictions."

It sounds pretty vague and I've replied asking (again) for a link to or a copy to the TRO

It seems pretty clear to me, rather than vague. It would be a silly officer who lied in response to an information request governed by FoI(S)A.

The TRO is actually available online Here - reference EL007 & EL008
The restriction is perfectly clear in Paragraph 14 & Schedule 4f.

 

[Old Gibber]

For those under 60 that never learnt feet and inches at school
7'6" is 2.3m

You are suggesting that learning starts and ends at school?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

7'6" is real money, the other measurement is foreign, .

The foot was used by the Greeks and Romans long before we adopted it. The metric system was adopted in the UK in 1965, 297 years after John Wilkins an English clergyman proposed a new metric system for subdividing units. On balance I think we can claim the metric system is slightly less foreign than feet and inches.

 

[PaulC70]

It seems pretty clear to me, rather than vague. It would be a silly officer who lied in response to an information request governed by FoI(S)A.

The TRO is actually available online Here - reference EL007 & EL008
The restriction is perfectly clear in Paragraph 14 & Schedule 4f.

It may seem clear to you but it wasn't to me which is why I was seeking clarification.
To me the information seemed to be telling me that the restrictions were in fact:

1. Between the hours of 8.30am and 5.30pm.
2. For a maximum stay of 4 hours.
3. Between 1st June and 30th September.

Hence I was confused and wanted clarification.

 

[GJH]

It may seem clear to you but it wasn't to me which is why I was seeking clarification.
To me the information seemed to be telling me that the restrictions were in fact:

1. Between the hours of 8.30am and 5.30pm.
2. For a maximum stay of 4 hours.
3. Between 1st June and 30th September.

Hence I was confused and wanted clarification.

Look at the end of the paragraph "on which vehicles with an overall height which exceeds seven feet six inches will be prohibited from
waiting at any time" (my emphasis).

The restricted hours and dates apply to any vehicle, as the order states in the third line.

 

[PaulC70]

Look at the end of the paragraph "on which vehicles with an overall height which exceeds seven feet six inches will be prohibited from
waiting at any time" (my emphasis).

The restricted hours and dates apply to any vehicle, as the order states in the third line.

yes and again, i asked for clarification to this as it seemed contradictory to the dates / times and the language used in these didn't particularly lend itself to being easily understood by me.

 

[GJH]

yes and again, i asked for clarification to this as it seemed contradictory to the dates / times and the language used in these didn't particularly lend itself to being easily understood by me.

The paragraph heading (in bold) explains that the restriction applies to the lengths of road specified in Schedules 4f.
The text (not in bold) contains two types of restriction, separated by the word "and" in the fourth line.
It may be formal but it's perfectly good English.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}