Is the true EV motorhome on the way?

[starquake]

Why, may I ask?
Not ALL HGV's will be electric.
Some will still be diesel, surely, and the flow-through from diesel to electric replacements will take several years at least.
In my opinion only, anyway.

In Simple terms economics.

Tesla and Scania have already demonstrated the cost per mile improvements are between 25% and 50% of diesel. Fuel is truckings #1 cost. Thus there is an econmonic benefit today. And thats with expensive electricity relatively speaking still from the Ukraine issue. And before you say but they have to stop to recharge, yes, they do, but they also have to stop due to legally mandated rest breaks, and the two can coincide. But even if they PAID for the slack time whilst drivers refill with electric the 50% saving on fuel pays for the half hour recharge break when you work it out, because the costs per mile fall so much. Remember driver hourly pay is quite inconsequential compared with the fuel they use.. Effectively if they don't do this they will lose business to other transport companies who already have done so.

As per Gromett, it's cost per mile that rules all in transport industry, and it's ALREADY today 50% of diesel. It will get cheaper, and long term electricity forecasts mean it'll get cheaper over time which is VERY much unlike diesel. Remember some ports in UK (cough, Tilbury), ALREADY operate their own (private) windfarms (and have a battery of many MWh capacity on the port too) so recharging trucks there would effectively be "very cheap" compared with market rates. Wind when you buy your own turbines has a net (including construction cost) of ~ 2-3p a kwh (including running costs). The price per mile if you ran a BEV truck on such fuel is literally 5p a mile, compared er, with diesel where conservatively it's 40p a mile today.

Quite a few people in here seem to doubt basic economics though -> but effectively diesel is dead as a long term fuel now, and as gromett has highlighted it'll only get better on the BEV side of equation as batteries improve.

Remember the people moving to this often do have the scale and funding to build their own windfarms (transport companys included - many run private fuel bunkering today, this is the BEV equivlent of that). Most datacentre operators, inclduing Amazon and Microsoft funnily enough also own considerable wind farms to pay for their datacentres power use, but even some "smaller" businesses in UK also now own them. Wouldn't surprise me if a port somewhere in world privately funds a Nuclear plant for their trucking electricity in next 10 years, equally suspect any trucking operator that has a need to refill 4-7pm will likely buy battery's if they have any sense to cover peak demand, given grid fees literally are 15p a unit to deliver power in that window today.

I think however it won't happen as quickly in UK/EU with the main Scania trucking coming live more 2028-30 timeframe, however in US it's likely to be a very sharp move in California in particular due to the Drayage legislation on the books this year forcing any "new" truck with access to ports to be zero emission. And when they demonstrate it works in arguably the most expensive electricity market in the US, it will only get cheaper elsewhere. At moment the brands being used are NOT typically the EU brands we see, Nikola, and Tesla being the 2 main BEV truck suppliers in use in CA at moment. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/business/energy-environment/electric-trucks-port-california.html

 

[CatOnaBike]

Sorry for laughing, but you are wrong on this

If you glance at the HGV fleet press you might think I'm right. Truck manufacturer PR and brochures are very starry eyed about electric. You need to read what the fleet managers are actually buying. Biomethane trucks are already the standard for many big fleets. They've built their own filling stations because there are so few public ones, only 14 in the UK so far. We are behind all the other Europeans. Hundreds of public biomethane filling stations have been built in Europe recently. Many more are coming. They're very expensive because the pressures are so high. I don't believe all this investment in fleets and pumps is going to made obsolete by electric anytime soon. Lifetime costs for biomethane trucks are projected to be 30-40% lower than diesel. Where did you get the idea that there's nothing cheaper than electric? A fag packet calculation perhaps? I think your numbers are far into the future. This is probably why we disagree.

 

[CatOnaBike]

Hydrogenated vegetable oil (HVO) is also big thing at the moment with long distance HGVs. I don't know much about it, my interest is in biomethane because it's a feasible conversion for a transit-size motorhome. HVO and biomethane HGVs are a complete unknown to Joe Public. You need to do a lot of googling to get up to date. The economics of long distance HGVs do not generate many clicks.

 

[Dutch 68]

In Simple terms economics.

Tesla and Scania have already demonstrated the cost per mile improvements are between 25% and 50% of diesel. Fuel is truckings #1 cost. Thus there is an econmonic benefit today. And thats with expensive electricity relatively speaking still from the Ukraine issue. And before you say but they have to stop to recharge, yes, they do, but they also have to stop due to legally mandated rest breaks, and the two can coincide. But even if they PAID for the slack time whilst drivers refill with electric the 50% saving on fuel pays for the half hour recharge break when you work it out, because the costs per mile fall so much. Remember driver hourly pay is quite inconsequential compared with the fuel they use.. Effectively if they don't do this they will lose business to other transport companies who already have done so.

As per Gromett, it's cost per mile that rules all in transport industry, and it's ALREADY today 50% of diesel. It will get cheaper, and long term electricity forecasts mean it'll get cheaper over time which is VERY much unlike diesel. Remember some ports in UK (cough, Tilbury), ALREADY operate their own (private) windfarms (and have a battery of many MWh capacity on the port too) so recharging trucks there would effectively be "very cheap" compared with market rates. Wind when you buy your own turbines has a net (including construction cost) of ~ 2-3p a kwh (including running costs). The price per mile if you ran a BEV truck on such fuel is literally 5p a mile, compared er, with diesel where conservatively it's 40p a mile today.

Quite a few people in here seem to doubt basic economics though -> but effectively diesel is dead as a long term fuel now, and as gromett has highlighted it'll only get better on the BEV side of equation as batteries improve.

Remember the people moving to this often do have the scale and funding to build their own windfarms (transport companys included - many run private fuel bunkering today, this is the BEV equivlent of that). Most datacentre operators, inclduing Amazon and Microsoft funnily enough also own considerable wind farms to pay for their datacentres power use, but even some "smaller" businesses in UK also now own them. Wouldn't surprise me if a port somewhere in world privately funds a Nuclear plant for their trucking electricity in next 10 years, equally suspect any trucking operator that has a need to refill 4-7pm will likely buy battery's if they have any sense to cover peak demand, given grid fees literally are 15p a unit to deliver power in that window today.

I think however it won't happen as quickly in UK/EU with the main Scania trucking coming live more 2028-30 timeframe, however in US it's likely to be a very sharp move in California in particular due to the Drayage legislation on the books this year forcing any "new" truck with access to ports to be zero emission. And when they demonstrate it works in arguably the most expensive electricity market in the US, it will only get cheaper elsewhere. At moment the brands being used are NOT typically the EU brands we see, Nikola, and Tesla being the 2 main BEV truck suppliers in use in CA at moment. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/business/energy-environment/electric-trucks-port-california.html

Diesel is dead? Yeah right of course Africa, South America , big parts of Asia and the Middle East are keeping up just fine with electric infrastructure yes?, the world is a slightly bigger place then Western Europe and North America

 

[Tombola]

however it'll likely piss off the campsite owner if it's not metered electric, as you'll be using 16A constant for however long you are parked.

They'll be making more on flogging leccy than pitches..

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[Gromett]

Whoever designs a motorhome on this chassis will have a challenge designing water tanks etc to fit around all the equipment between the rails and avoid getting them too near the ground

Check out the MASSIVE space to the sides of the chassis rail though. That is where water tanks etc will likely go. Also there is nothing stopping tanks being below the battery with access from the sides.
Being a self builder who looked at 7.5T vehicles. I can tell you it is not so easy on current ones with all the tanks, pollution control gear, prop and diff etc.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

All the Tesco home delivery vans I've seen are Chinese EV's.

Still run on dinosaur juice around here, but then again parts of Lincolnshire have only just moved into the 21st century

 

[WESTY66]

I’m still at a loss why the U.K. thinks it will save the world by stopping ice vehicles and also not burning fossil fuels for power!! The rest of Europe are still burning coal for electricity for gods sake, never mind the rest of the world, but no the good people of the U.K. will pay through the nose for going green and saving the planet, what a joke
Saw a clip of a Rio Tinto mine in Australia loading ships with coal for power stations around the world as fast as they could, they have around 30 ships waiting at any time to be loaded.
So going back to trucks, yes the U.K. with the dearest price for power will be the first to be bled dry with high haulage costs to cover the change over!

Oh and we’ll save the planet at the same time……NOT

 

[starquake]

I’m still at a loss why the U.K. thinks it will save the world by stopping ice vehicles and also not burning fossil fuels for power!! The rest of Europe are still burning coal for electricity for gods sake, never mind the rest of the world, but no the good people of the U.K. will pay through the nose for going green and saving the planet, what a joke
Saw a clip of a Rio Tinto mine in Australia loading ships with coal for power stations around the world as fast as they could, they have around 30 ships waiting at any time to be loaded.
So going back to trucks, yes the U.K. with the dearest price for power will be the first to be bled dry with high haulage costs to cover the change over!

Oh and we’ll save the planet at the same time……NOT

It's not about UK, or saving the world the change is happening everywhere (even India and China). Everywhere will swtich to BEV trucks as they are simply cheaper to operate. Thats it no other reason, cheaper, thats it. If you want high haulage costs in future you should be encouraging truck firms to stick with diesel, given the cost per mile is double that of a EV today (it's as low as a tenth of the cost in lower electricity cost locations).

Remember even with UK's high electricity prices it's STILL half the cost of diesel, and gets better as prices fall. And as mentioned anyone serious or large in transport will end up buying their own generation to make it cheaper still, as unlike diesel, you can make your own fuel for a BEV truck for very little outlay (solar and wind being ludicriously cheap for this, repaying their cost in sub 5 years). Good luck any haulier running a oil refinery in comparison...

Ref; is it better for the environement even if the power is entirely produced by coal, well yes, it is better. There are so many studies on this, but the reality is even Germany who went back to coal still only have coal as a relatively small part of their energy mix. I'm all for EV's using coal as a fuel, as they key point is you can change this later, where with a diesel, it's stuck being a diesel for ever.

The climate stuff is however completely irrlevant as a reason for this, the reaosn the order books for every type of EV van and truck are full for many years is simply becuase its cheaper to run and operate, thats it.. Companys run for their shareholders benefit and directors are required to do best for their shareholders, and being able to run a truck for half the cost over it's lifetime of a diesel as a minimum is quite compelling, and any director involved in haulage NOT switching to BEV over next 10 years would likely be sacked by his shareholders and board.

 

[Coolcats]

You may want to look at Scania's and other truck manufacturers statements on this. TLDR, they disagree.

The key point is it's a minimum of half the cost of LNG to operate, and that key point makes bio-methane quite uncompetititive. For short term ie, next 5 years, we will see a mixture of LPG/LNG etc trucks and BEV. However long term they do expect by 2030 most trucks to be BEV.

Also California has "unhelpfully" ruled all trucking to/from their ports has to be fully zero emission ruling out Biomethane from one of the largest ports in the world. That comes in... this year. Hydrogen and BEV trucks will be only vehicles allowed for Drayage in CA this year.

Hurrah for Hydrogen

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[Coolcats]

I’m still at a loss why the U.K. thinks it will save the world by stopping ice vehicles and also not burning fossil fuels for power!! The rest of Europe are still burning coal for electricity for gods sake, never mind the rest of the world, but no the good people of the U.K. will pay through the nose for going green and saving the planet, what a joke

Actually going green saves money, one reason we are paying is due to importing energy.

In the next 6 years 50% of Europe’s coal power stations will close.

50% of All Coal Plants in Europe Set to Close, Marking Major Milestone in Phase Out of Coal in Europe by 2030 | Bloomberg Philanthropies

Milestone marks retirement commitments for 162 of 324 coal plants on the continent since 2016, accelerating Europe’s clean energy transition ahead of COP26 NEW YORK, NY & BRUSSELS – Bloomberg Philanthropies and Europe Beyond Coal announced today that 162 of Europe’s 324 coal plants have closed...

www.bloomberg.org

Saw a clip of a Rio Tinto mine in Australia loading ships with coal for power stations around the world as fast as they could, they have around 30 ships waiting at any time to be loaded.

Rio Tinto is a mining company it is in their interest to continue Coal is not just used for fuel it has other uses as well. (Same as oil) we just need to stop burning it.

So going back to trucks, yes the U.K. with the dearest price for power will be the first to be bled dry with high haulage costs to cover the change over!

Oh and we’ll save the planet at the same time……NOT

The U.K. does not have a motor manufacturing business, the manufacturers are all heading for the same alternate fuel vehicles so whilst you may feel we are shouldering a giant size of the transition to non hydrocarbon fuels the same is going on across the world. With China leading the way and before you jump on that comment it’s China that produces much of the batteries, it is China that produces most of the solar pannels and it is China that has the largest solar farms. This is a global crisis being addressed globally and whilst not fast enough it is happening.

 

[Coolcats]

Diesel is dead? Yeah right of course Africa, South America , big parts of Asia and the Middle East are keeping up just fine with electric infrastructure yes?, the world is a slightly bigger place then Western Europe and North America

Asia are investing and converting trucks to Hydrogen so whilst you laugh different markets have different needs and solutions. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/tra...ustion-engines-before-july-report/2-1-1594011

 

[WESTY66]

Asia are investing and converting trucks to Hydrogen so whilst you laugh different markets have different needs and solutions. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/tra...ustion-engines-before-july-report/2-1-1594011

Most countries in Asia still have sky spaghetti for the power infrastructure, I think EV charging points are way down their list of priorities, btw most Asian people wouldn’t be able to afford an EV, most of the people are still on motorcycles and scooters, and most of them are still two stroke, nope sorry, all them aren’t gonna be in EVs anytime soon!

 

[starquake]

Most countries in Asia still have sky spaghetti for the power infrastructure, I think EV charging points are way down their list of priorities, btw most Asian people wouldn’t be able to afford an EV, most of the people are still on motorcycles and scooters, and most of them are still two stroke, nope sorry, all them aren’t gonna be in EVs anytime soon!

Have you not been in Taiwan or far east recently, most of the two stroke in many markets (Vietnam is an exception) are being replaced with electric scooters? Even Thailand is trialling motorcycle electrics to replace the current motorcycle taxi's using Petrol at moment in Bangkok, and if you've been to Singapore and Taiwan you'll have seen these being the majority now. They use swappable batteries in Taiwan I believe precicesly due to the power thing.

If you not watching for this you'll be surprised, but entire (admittedly) Chinese citys are near 100% EV at this point. Change is coming even in Asia.

Remember a EV in China is around $7-10k, an ICE vehcicle is considerably more -> and you think rest of Asia WANT the more expensive petrol vehicles?

 

[Dutch 68]

Asia are investing and converting trucks to Hydrogen so whilst you laugh different markets have different needs and solutions. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/tra...ustion-engines-before-july-report/2-1-1594011

Asia is a bit bigger then India I am afraid, reality is that the biggest part of the world simply doesn’t have the funds or technology and therefore an enormous fleet of really really old vehicles will be on their roads for a very long time to come

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[Coolcats]

Asia is a bit bigger then India I am afraid, reality is that the biggest part of the world simply doesn’t have the funds or technology and therefore an enormous fleet of really really old vehicles will be on their roads for a very long time to come

I totally get Asia is a lot bigger than India, but India itself is a pretty big country and happens to reside in Asia Often a poorer county will jump an intermediate technology, and as posted some older trucks are being converted to Hydrogen.....

 

[Coolcats]

Most countries in Asia still have sky spaghetti for the power infrastructure, I think EV charging points are way down their list of priorities, btw most Asian people wouldn’t be able to afford an EV, most of the people are still on motorcycles and scooters, and most of them are still two stroke, nope sorry, all them aren’t gonna be in EVs anytime soon!

Like everywhere there are challenges but be under no illusion the Asian Market is going under significant change. Think those two stroke bikes will be out of favour when you look at the stats.

Throughout recent years, the electric vehicle industry across the Asia-Pacific region has experienced huge developments. This is highlighted by the region accounting for the largest share of battery electric vehicle (BEV) market worldwide. Additionally, APAC has been showing higher growth than its western competitors with its electric vehicle sales. Sales of BEVs in the region have increased significantly in the past decade. Furthermore, it was estimated that China had the highest number of electric vehicles in use and was forecast to continue to produce the biggest volume of electric vehicles in the Asia-Pacific region. Alongside Japan and South Korea, the three East Asian countries are industry leaders in the field of electromobility worldwide.

Topic: Electric vehicle market in the Asia-Pacific region

Find the latest statistics and facts about electric vehicles in Asia Pacific

www.statista.com

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-i...pturing-growth-in-asias-emerging-ev-ecosystem

Sign 2: Consumers in emerging Asia snapping up electric two-wheelers​

Emerging Asia markets today represent the largest micromobility markets. India, for example, overtook China to become the largest market for electric two-wheelers (E2Ws) in 2017.5 With the increasing cost-competitiveness of electric models and regulators incentivizing consumer adoption, E2Ws will become a predominant mode of transport in the region.

Our modeling shows that by 2030, India and Indonesia will become the second- and third-largest E2W markets in the world after China, growing at more than 60 percent annually (Exhibit 4). Such development will translate into an electrification rate of two-wheelers at around 36 percent in India and ASEAN by 2030, compared with less than 1 percent today.

 

[starquake]

For those doubting cheap electricity, wholesale rates are 0p (yet again) for most of today due to both high solar yield & wind + cheap electricity due to same from Europe.

Trucking without the fuel cost is going to be a thing in future. Going to be hard to compete with a truck that only costs drivers wages + tyre wear in the grand scheme of things. If everyone had BEV trucks this weekend I imagine all the drivers would be getting weekend bonuses for the loads transported as you'd want everyone in if you fuel cost was zero.

 

[denisejoe]

Have you not been in Taiwan or far east recently, most of the two stroke in many markets (Vietnam is an exception) are being replaced with electric scooters? Even Thailand is trialling motorcycle electrics to replace the current motorcycle taxi's using Petrol at moment in Bangkok, and if you've been to Singapore and Taiwan you'll have seen these being the majority now. They use swappable batteries in Taiwan I believe precicesly due to the power thing.

If you not watching for this you'll be surprised, but entire (admittedly) Chinese citys are near 100% EV at this point. Change is coming even in Asia.

Remember a EV in China is around $7-10k, an ICE vehcicle is considerably more -> and you think rest of Asia WANT the more expensive petrol vehicles?

Isn’t china one of the biggest polluters with coal fired power stations so not really saving the planet

 

[denisejoe]

Had a friend who was working on a nuclear power station in china a few years back but they are building more coal fired power stations is that to feed the EV revolution?

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[WESTY66]

For those doubting cheap electricity, wholesale rates are 0p (yet again) for most of today due to both high solar yield & wind + cheap electricity due to same from Europe.

Trucking without the fuel cost is going to be a thing in future. Going to be hard to compete with a truck that only costs drivers wages + tyre wear in the grand scheme of things. If everyone had BEV trucks this weekend I imagine all the drivers would be getting weekend bonuses for the loads transported as you'd want everyone in if you fuel cost was zero.

You’re living in cloud cuckoo land, there will be NO cheap electric or zero fuel cost to power trucks, where the hell do you think the gov is gonna recoup all the fuel duty lost.

 

[starquake]

Had a friend who was working on a nuclear power station in china a few years back but they are building more coal fired power stations is that to feed the EV revolution?

They are also building way more wind and solar than literally any other country in world (around 4 UK national grid levels of energy per year, with that rate increasing every... single... year) . And they are miles ahead of us on net-zero, people who havn't been recently (to China) really need to get up to speed with how much. In summary China uses Coal like we use gas, for grid peaking at present, but the scale of coal growth is overstated in western media, they've cancelled more coal plants than they have built in last year at least.

 

[starquake]

You’re living in cloud cuckoo land, there will be NO cheap electric or zero fuel cost to power trucks, where the hell do you think the gov is gonna recoup all the fuel duty lost.

Vehicle tax, like now. Theres no way they can tax electricity without also taxing the poorest in society.

The future is also per mile charges.. but this will also apply to diesel, makign the use for that somewhat questionable, given there will be per mile charges, fuel duty as a minimum.

I'm not discounting there will need for per mile charging, bring it on, it'll apply to all vehicles, there won't be exceptions for old diesels.

 

[WESTY66]

Vehicle tax, like now. Theres no way they can tax electricity without also taxing the poorest in society.

The future is also per mile charges.. but this will also apply to diesel, makign the use for that somewhat questionable, given there will be per mile charges, fuel duty as a minimum.

I'm not discounting there will need for per mile charging, bring it on, it'll apply to all vehicles, there won't be exceptions for old diesels.

So really not gonna be any cheaper to the end user at all then
Certainly not to quote a recent post of yours

“Trucking without the fuel cost is going to be a thing in future. Going to be hard to compete with a truck that only costs drivers wages + tyre wear”

 

[starquake]

So really not gonna be any cheaper to the end user at all then
Certainly not to quote a recent post of yours

“Trucking without the fuel cost is going to be a thing in future. Going to be hard to compete with a truck that only costs drivers wages + tyre wear”

For early adopters it certainlly will be. Why you think there is a rush to BEV trucks and distribution now - it’s precisely because the road fees don’t exist today. Early bird catches the worm and all that same way when we got our EV charging was 99% free

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[Tombola]

So really not gonna be any cheaper to the end user at all then
Certainly not to quote a recent post of yours

“Trucking without the fuel cost is going to be a thing in future. Going to be hard to compete with a truck that only costs drivers wages + tyre wear”

your "cloud cuckoo land" and "what the hell" references are all guesswork at the moment too though arent they... about where the loss in potential revenue is going to be made up. Remember not all countries charge the same levels of fuel taxation either.

I was reading this about the Semi for pepsico, give some facts, but only time will tell as the industry gathers momentum.

The Tesla Semi Saves $BILLIONS vs Diesel Semi — Cleanerwatt

The Tesla Semi has the potential to save PepsiCo and other companies billions of dollars in the coming years as compared to a diesel semi and because of this, demand should far outpace supply for some time.

www.cleanerwatt.com

PepsiCo is achieving significant savings by using the Tesla Semi for their logistics. The Tesla Semi’s average efficiency is reported to be 1.7 kWh per mile, which is equivalent to 1.1 kWh per kilometer1. This efficiency is better than Tesla’s own estimate of “less than 2 kWh per mile”. With the off-peak electricity rate in Sacramento being $0.14 per kWh, this results in a 23% fuel cost reduction compared to the most efficient diesel trucks2. Additionally, the regenerative braking feature of the Tesla Semi allows for energy-neutral driving in certain conditions, such as descending the Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada1. These savings are expected to accumulate significantly as PepsiCo integrates more Tesla Semis into their fleet3.

 

[Coolcats]

your "cloud cuckoo land" and "what the hell" references are all guesswork at the moment too though arent they... about where the loss in potential revenue is going to be made up. Remember not all countries charge the same levels of fuel taxation either.

I was reading this about the Semi for pepsico, give some facts, but only time will tell as the industry gathers momentum.

The Tesla Semi Saves $BILLIONS vs Diesel Semi — Cleanerwatt

The Tesla Semi has the potential to save PepsiCo and other companies billions of dollars in the coming years as compared to a diesel semi and because of this, demand should far outpace supply for some time.

www.cleanerwatt.com

PepsiCo is achieving significant savings by using the Tesla Semi for their logistics. The Tesla Semi’s average efficiency is reported to be 1.7 kWh per mile, which is equivalent to 1.1 kWh per kilometer1. This efficiency is better than Tesla’s own estimate of “less than 2 kWh per mile”. With the off-peak electricity rate in Sacramento being $0.14 per kWh, this results in a 23% fuel cost reduction compared to the most efficient diesel trucks2. Additionally, the regenerative braking feature of the Tesla Semi allows for energy-neutral driving in certain conditions, such as descending the Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada1. These savings are expected to accumulate significantly as PepsiCo integrates more Tesla Semis into their fleet3.

Wish people would stop just highlighting Tesla as saviours of the world there are other EV and alternate fuel vehicles out there.

 

[Coolcats]

But I don't use sites or EHU.

I think it only applies to commercial vehicles.

Your going to need a bigger solar panel

 

[starquake]

your "cloud cuckoo land" and "what the hell" references are all guesswork at the moment too though arent they... about where the loss in potential revenue is going to be made up. Remember not all countries charge the same levels of fuel taxation either.

PepsiCo is achieving significant savings by using the Tesla Semi for their logistics. The Tesla Semi’s average efficiency is reported to be 1.7 kWh per mile, which is equivalent to 1.1 kWh per kilometer1. This efficiency is better than Tesla’s own estimate of “less than 2 kWh per mile”. With the off-peak electricity rate in Sacramento being $0.14 per kWh, this results in a 23% fuel cost reduction compared to the most efficient diesel trucks2. Additionally, the regenerative braking feature of the Tesla Semi allows for energy-neutral driving in certain conditions, such as descending the Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada1. These savings are expected to accumulate significantly as PepsiCo integrates more Tesla Semis into their fleet3.

I'm not a fan of the Tesla semi, but all I can equate it to in terms of energy pricing is the long term deals struck by datacentre clients (who have a similar demand for electriciry to vehicle charging!), I think they are massively understating the cost case in your linked article In comparison the datacentres I actually have worked with have long term supply deals at between 4 and 5 cents a kwh (good until 2030's), and yes in Cali. Cheaper still in states with loads of Hydro plant like TN. You think Pepsi can't get those deals? Equally given in US it's near trivial in terms of planning to put up a 2.5MW wind turbine for roughly speaking about $2.5m, and add some batteries, and in effect get a near nil rate of charging for several trucks at once and offset plant costs at same time

There was a study done in UK on a suffolk based agricultural busienss (malting I think it was) who is moving to a single BEV truck for their needs, (already running), and they noted their net cost of charging is nil, as electical energy is a byproduct of their production. This is far from only one, my fathers old job was private networks for one of the UK's DNO, and he dealt with the (quite numerous) industrials running their own generation and plant. It is FAR more common than you would think, even rurally, enough that there are private network teams in most local DNO's today.

Remember these things can plugin to existing electrical grids in these places and effectively refill for free, as in some cases they cannot export more than they are already (grid constraints on export are more common than import) from their gas turbines and other generation plant. They often already have these generation assets due to import limitations, as it's cheaper for a farmer/industrial plant to run a gas turbine or bio methane generator than run new electrical grid for peak demands like flash freezing goods (a once/twice a week activity).

(edit to above to add that industrials/farmers pay based on size of their connection to grid, typically a peak load of 200 or 500A at 230v) Farmers don't pay (nor do industrials) for peaks beyond what they need constantly (ie for more than a month a year), and as such thats why they have generation today, as they often need several MW for demands such as flash freezing chemicals or even peas in case of farmers, which they only need for 3-10 days during harvest..

 

[Gromett]

Wish people would stop just highlighting Tesla as saviours of the world there are other EV and alternate fuel vehicles out there.

WE highlight Tesla because they are leading from the front. They show what is possible. The others will eventually catch up.

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