I got EPC Parking and Vignette fines in Hungary. Can I avoid paying?

[TobyQuest]

In January I was in Budapest
1) asked the traffic warden can I park here, he said not on this side of the road but the other side is fine. Came back and had a parking ticket. Turns out there was a meter up the road and I was supposed to get a ticket. He never mentioned that!

2) Driving into Hungary from Austria, I was careful to avoid going on the Hungarian motorway because I didnt want to pay for the vignette, however as soon as i crossed into Hungary it put me on a motorway and i took the 1st exit right away but they had cameras on it and i got a fine for driving on the motorway with no vignette.

So fast-forward to now and a week or so ago I received 2 fines for a around £90 each for both of these incidents.
However I dont want to pay them. And I looked up on the net and some sites are saying if you received the notification about the fine more than 60 days after the incident then its invalid.

Anyone know if this is true, or have experience about this?
Anyone who has not paid Euro Parking Collection and what happens next?

The fact that UK is no longer in EU does this also mean they have no power to do anything?

 

[The Wino]

You seem to be missing the point intentionally there was no sign with any restrictions in any language where the vehicle was parked.

I was replying to a post that suggested that every country should have signs in English as well as their own country. But how about in the England we all know that in urban areas with street lights the limit is 30 mph unless signed otherwise is it unreasonable to expect people driving here from other countries to know that?

 

[Northernraider]

I was replying to a post that suggested that every country should have signs in English as well as their own country. But how about in the England we all know that in urban areas with street lights the limit is 30 mph unless signed otherwise is it unreasonable to expect people driving here from other countries to know that?

Well they just have to gamble Same as I have to do. I'm currently in Turkey...the signs by the road state that cars are limited to 82kph buses and trucks 70kph .. but when I'm sitting at 80kph my satnav is telling me I'm over the speedlimit every 2 seconds yet every vehicle including the trucks ,busses and the bleeding police cars are all overtaking me doing way more than 80kph . And the speed cameras and police themselves seem to be okay with it as there's a traffic car every 10 miles or so .

My point is everyone that's driven in other countries knows that most of the signage is wrong, useless or in the wrong place . Often one sign in front of another completely contradicting the other one.

I've given up nowadays ... if its blatantly obvious that you can't park somewhere or there's clear and consistent signs then I'll follow them otherwise I just do what the locals do and if I then get a charge for it I either bin it or argue it at the time of receiving it.


People who just pay up are the real problem , kinda like scam calls and adverts. If they get the odd mug who pays up it gives them encouragement to try it on with more.

 

[Northernraider]

From an earlier discussion on the same subject......


First rules with dealing with parking companies.
You ONLY EVER deal with written letters. no phone calls, no emails.
Remember they are Evil, there are no rules of decency or deceit.

It costs the companies several pounds to deal with a letter, as they have to be opened, sorted, scanned, sent to the correct department, and they can not be searched on.

It helps if you use blue paper to write your letter on, as you can not scan blue paper letters.

To further 'assist' the company actually hand write the letter (on blue paper), it then becomes impossible to deal with except by a total manual operation, which as these companies outsource work, is impossible.

Always leave replies to the last moment, this ensures lack of continuity as the letters are weeks apart, ensure they are dated correctly though.

The company will try, very hard, to contact you by land line, email, and mobile.
They will even use tricks to confirm it's you.
They will also try contacting family members.
Claim it's a wrong number every time.

All letters are to be in hand written envelopes, addressed to the CEO by name, and marked personal.
This ensures you are wasting the time of the most expensive person in the company, and his secretary, and the person who has to deliver the letter internally, and then deal with it internally.

Be creepy, very creepy. As in stalker creepy.
Refer to the CEO by his first name, ask how the kids are (by name), like the dog etc.

Every letter is to have a standard 'E&OE' on the top
Every letter is to have a standard 'Charges clause' Ideally use their own wording, to say you charge £60 per hour or part thereof to deal with their issues.

If you have several points to make as to why you should not pay, never use more than one issue on a letter at a time.
Use the least important first.

They then have to deal with the first minor issue, before they then have to deal with the next issue as a separate letter, all extra time and money.

Always refer back to previous letters, especially if they do not exist.
It means the person dealing with the issue has to search back to find the (non-existent) letter.
This is all extra time and money

At some point they will refer this to a debt collection agency.
Immediately contact the debt collection agency (Letter, blue paper, same rules) and tell them that you are in dispute with the parking company and are currently taking them to the small claims court.
The debt collection agency will drop a hot potato

The bottom line is even if you end up having to pay the idea is for it to be a Pyrrhic Victory, where the cost is greater than the gain.

If you do end up having to pay, ensure you pay the original company (by cheque, as they cost money to process, and make it 1p more than asked, as this messes up the accounts system).

Payment then causes a problem for the debt collection agency who own the debt.
The Parking company have to buy the debt back, or pay the debt collection agency.
All more costs and trouble.

My time is too valuable to be writing all those letters. I'd rather just ignore it in the knowledge that 99% never pursue it or take it to court.

 

[gus-lopez]

From an earlier discussion on the same subject......


First rules with dealing with parking companies.
You ONLY EVER deal with written letters. no phone calls, no emails.
Remember they are Evil, there are no rules of decency or deceit.

It costs the companies several pounds to deal with a letter, as they have to be opened, sorted, scanned, sent to the correct department, and they can not be searched on.

It helps if you use blue paper to write your letter on, as you can not scan blue paper letters.

To further 'assist' the company actually hand write the letter (on blue paper), it then becomes impossible to deal with except by a total manual operation, which as these companies outsource work, is impossible.

Always leave replies to the last moment, this ensures lack of continuity as the letters are weeks apart, ensure they are dated correctly though.

The company will try, very hard, to contact you by land line, email, and mobile.
They will even use tricks to confirm it's you.
They will also try contacting family members.
Claim it's a wrong number every time.

All letters are to be in hand written envelopes, addressed to the CEO by name, and marked personal.
This ensures you are wasting the time of the most expensive person in the company, and his secretary, and the person who has to deliver the letter internally, and then deal with it internally.

Be creepy, very creepy. As in stalker creepy.
Refer to the CEO by his first name, ask how the kids are (by name), like the dog etc.

Every letter is to have a standard 'E&OE' on the top
Every letter is to have a standard 'Charges clause' Ideally use their own wording, to say you charge £60 per hour or part thereof to deal with their issues.

If you have several points to make as to why you should not pay, never use more than one issue on a letter at a time.
Use the least important first.

They then have to deal with the first minor issue, before they then have to deal with the next issue as a separate letter, all extra time and money.

Always refer back to previous letters, especially if they do not exist.
It means the person dealing with the issue has to search back to find the (non-existent) letter.
This is all extra time and money

At some point they will refer this to a debt collection agency.
Immediately contact the debt collection agency (Letter, blue paper, same rules) and tell them that you are in dispute with the parking company and are currently taking them to the small claims court.
The debt collection agency will drop a hot potato

The bottom line is even if you end up having to pay the idea is for it to be a Pyrrhic Victory, where the cost is greater than the gain.

If you do end up having to pay, ensure you pay the original company (by cheque, as they cost money to process, and make it 1p more than asked, as this messes up the accounts system).

Payment then causes a problem for the debt collection agency who own the debt.
The Parking company have to buy the debt back, or pay the debt collection agency.
All more costs and trouble.

This ^^^It does annoy them & passes the time whilst it is raining(in the UK)

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[vzac]

I've never had a crit air sticker , and I never bought a vignette the last time I went through Hungary either.

I generally don't think about this stuff either until I'm entering the country. I do very little online if it can be done physically at the border. Force of habit. So yes there are folk like the op who don't do everything online and to be honest I wish the world would stop insisting everyone does.

I agree with you re technology, but alas it's not in our hands anymore, it's in them millennium things. Most things are now on line and Many are confusing, but if we choose to ignore technology, we have to accept the correct consequences. Hungary vignette is only about £5 for a week, not worth the fuss imo. As for Austria now that's a rip off.

 

[Northernraider]

I agree with you re technology, but alas it's not in our hands anymore, it's in them millennium things. Most things are now on line and Many are confusing, but if we choose to ignore technology, we have to accept the correct consequences. Hungary vignette is only about £5 for a week, not worth the fuss imo. As for Austria now that's a rip off.

Well that's all very well if it's easy to do online but here's a challenge for you then.


Try to find out about a vignette for Bulgaria for a motorhome over 3.5t as I'll be entering Bulgaria from Turkey.


Finding information is almost impossible, buying a vignette online looks impossible.

 

[Jonny1953]

AI

There are ways of obtaining anything about anything & on anyone whatever country they are in or have been in.

True, SVR RF, CNI, DGSE or MI5/6

 

[Northernraider]

I agree with you re technology, but alas it's not in our hands anymore, it's in them millennium things. Most things are now on line and Many are confusing, but if we choose to ignore technology, we have to accept the correct consequences. Hungary vignette is only about £5 for a week, not worth the fuss imo. As for Austria now that's a rip off.

The difference is you can definitely transit through Austria without using a toll road I've done it twice and had no issues. Never bought a vignette for there. I don't recall buying one for Hungary either. The last time I went through my camper was under 3.5t and its easy to buy the vignettes. Over 3.5t and its ridiculously difficult

 

[JRT]

The difference is you can definitely transit through Austria without using a toll road I've done it twice and had no issues. Never bought a vignette for there. I don't recall buying one for Hungary either. The last time I went through my camper was under 3.5t and its easy to buy the vignettes. Over 3.5t and its ridiculously difficult

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the appeal of travelling so extensively is that you expect things to be done very differently to how we do things in the UK?

And you research as best you can to aid your travels, and expect idiosyncrasies?

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[Northernraider]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the appeal of travelling so extensively is that you expect things to be done very differently to how we do things in the UK?

And you research as best you can to aid your travels, and expect idiosyncrasies?

Not when it takes any enjoyment out of the travel by constantly being stressed.

I primarily travel to escape bad weather and to see new things ....by that I mean buildings scenery etc not road signs traffic regulations and overly complicated toll systems etc.

Make it too complicated it just puts off tourism .

 

[JRT]

Not when it takes any enjoyment out of the travel by constantly being stressed.

I primarily travel to escape bad weather and to see new things ....by that I mean buildings scenery etc not road signs traffic regulations and overly complicated toll systems etc.

Make it too complicated it just puts off tourism .

Then perhaps if you find it so stressful you should stay closer to home? Or stick to countries that don't make it so difficult to visit. I'm genuinely not being funny here but I personally find flying bloody annoying and stressful so I avoid it as much as poss.

 

[vzac]

Well that's all very well if it's easy to do online but here's a challenge for you then.


Try to find out about a vignette for Bulgaria for a motorhome over 3.5t as I'll be entering Bulgaria from Turkey.


Finding information is almost impossible, buying a vignette online looks impossible.

We are over 3.5 t and went to Bulgaria last yr. Think we got vignette at the border, but can not to be honest remember. We found Poland to be the worst to try and sort. Gave up in the end and did not go there. I know we had issue with Austria as they want the certificate of conformation and would not accept v5.

 

[Northernraider]

Then perhaps if you find it so stressful you should stay closer to home? Or stick to countries that don't make it so difficult to visit. I'm genuinely not being funny here but I personally find flying bloody annoying and stressful so I avoid it as much as poss.

Ha ha its already going that way there are countries I've ticked off my list that I will most likely not bother with again for those reasons and others.

To be honest there were a few I only really visited to shengen hop but they've either now joined shengen and lost that appeal or they proved too expensive overall

In the end residency or an extended travel visa will have to be the answer

 

[Northernraider]

We are over 3.5 t and went to Bulgaria last yr. Think we got vignette at the border, but can not to be honest remember. We found Poland to be the worst to try and sort. Gave up in the end and did not go there. I know we had issue with Austria as they want the certificate of conformation and would not accept v5.

That's the end result as I just said in a reply to someone else.

In the end if they make it too difficult they either lose out on the tourism as people just decide not to go OR like the op don't pay the fine when they've accidentally strayed on to a toll road.

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[Northernraider]

The language of international diplomacy I think is still French just checked it isn't it was until ww1!. France is our nearest neighbour too. How many parking restrictions in London have a French translation on?

I still bet if you consider Europe in its entirety that there are less people in other countries speak French than speak english .

The countries bordering France maybe not but the rest will be aware that English is spoken more than French.

I've just left georgia which lies between Russia and Turkey yet english signs everywhere. Never saw any French ones.
Don't recall seeing anything written in French anywhere outside France to be honest. Even the Belgians speak Dutch, english then French.

 

[Krumpli]

In January I was in Budapest
1) asked the traffic warden can I park here, he said not on this side of the road but the other side is fine. Came back and had a parking ticket. Turns out there was a meter up the road and I was supposed to get a ticket. He never mentioned that!

2) Driving into Hungary from Austria, I was careful to avoid going on the Hungarian motorway because I didnt want to pay for the vignette, however as soon as i crossed into Hungary it put me on a motorway and i took the 1st exit right away but they had cameras on it and i got a fine for driving on the motorway with no vignette.

So fast-forward to now and a week or so ago I received 2 fines for a around £90 each for both of these incidents.
However I dont want to pay them. And I looked up on the net and some sites are saying if you received the notification about the fine more than 60 days after the incident then its invalid.

Anyone know if this is true, or have experience about this?
Anyone who has not paid Euro Parking Collection and what happens next?

The fact that UK is no longer in EU does this also mean they have no power to do anything?

 

[Krumpli]

I sympathise with you. I lived in Hungary fort some time and found the traffic wardens to be VERY aggressive. One day I was driving a UK registered car and I was done because the parking ticket was not visible (it was). I ignored the Hungarian fine and when I returned the car to the UK I received a letter from a UK debt collecting agency threatening that if I did not pay they would take legal proceedings, ruined credit rating and so on.
Sorry, but you have no chance.

 

[Northernraider]

I sympathise with you. I lived in Hungary fort some time and found the traffic wardens to be VERY aggressive. One day I was driving a UK registered car and I was done because the parking ticket was not visible (it was). I ignored the Hungarian fine and when I returned the car to the UK I received a letter from a UK debt collecting agency threatening that if I did not pay they would take legal proceedings, ruined credit rating and so on.
Sorry, but you have no chance.

I've had the same threats from epc ... but after 2 years no legal proceedings and no ruined credit rating.

They have to make threats in order to scare you in to paying.

But they're empty threats as they have to gamble whether spending more money taking you to court will work or not so they tend not to

 

[TobyQuest]

From the number of EPC sympathisers I reckon Im pretty ok, there seems to be quite a number of people that would pay the fine to "save the hassle" or worried about the consequences etc. So for EPC they probably have to do little to no debt collection, fire out 100 letters and perhaps 30-40 of them get paid.

The language of international diplomacy I think is still French just checked it isn't it was until ww1!. France is our nearest neighbour too. How many parking restrictions in London have a French translation on?

none, because the world speaks english, not french.

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[carolyn]

From an earlier discussion on the same subject......


First rules with dealing with parking companies.
You ONLY EVER deal with written letters. no phone calls, no emails.
Remember they are Evil, there are no rules of decency or deceit.

It costs the companies several pounds to deal with a letter, as they have to be opened, sorted, scanned, sent to the correct department, and they can not be searched on.

It helps if you use blue paper to write your letter on, as you can not scan blue paper letters.

To further 'assist' the company actually hand write the letter (on blue paper), it then becomes impossible to deal with except by a total manual operation, which as these companies outsource work, is impossible.

Always leave replies to the last moment, this ensures lack of continuity as the letters are weeks apart, ensure they are dated correctly though.

The company will try, very hard, to contact you by land line, email, and mobile.
They will even use tricks to confirm it's you.
They will also try contacting family members.
Claim it's a wrong number every time.

All letters are to be in hand written envelopes, addressed to the CEO by name, and marked personal.
This ensures you are wasting the time of the most expensive person in the company, and his secretary, and the person who has to deliver the letter internally, and then deal with it internally.

Be creepy, very creepy. As in stalker creepy.
Refer to the CEO by his first name, ask how the kids are (by name), like the dog etc.

Every letter is to have a standard 'E&OE' on the top
Every letter is to have a standard 'Charges clause' Ideally use their own wording, to say you charge £60 per hour or part thereof to deal with their issues.

If you have several points to make as to why you should not pay, never use more than one issue on a letter at a time.
Use the least important first.

They then have to deal with the first minor issue, before they then have to deal with the next issue as a separate letter, all extra time and money.

Always refer back to previous letters, especially if they do not exist.
It means the person dealing with the issue has to search back to find the (non-existent) letter.
This is all extra time and money

At some point they will refer this to a debt collection agency.
Immediately contact the debt collection agency (Letter, blue paper, same rules) and tell them that you are in dispute with the parking company and are currently taking them to the small claims court.
The debt collection agency will drop a hot potato

The bottom line is even if you end up having to pay the idea is for it to be a Pyrrhic Victory, where the cost is greater than the gain.

If you do end up having to pay, ensure you pay the original company (by cheque, as they cost money to process, and make it 1p more than asked, as this messes up the accounts system).

Payment then causes a problem for the debt collection agency who own the debt.
The Parking company have to buy the debt back, or pay the debt collection agency.
All more costs and trouble.

I know this thread is quite old but I found this post interesting.

I am really cross with myself, received a fine from EPC yesterday from our trip to Hungary in September saying no Vignette. I’d bought lots of Vignettes online including Hungary. After very careful checking I’ve realised I made a stupid mistake. The final letter on the number plate is wrong, I put a K instead of an X.

You can appeal but still have to pay the exorbitant £55 admin charge! It all has to happen within 60 days. It says you can do it by post or online. In fact there’s no email address so having read your post maybe that was just as well. We were there 4 days so might wait a few days to maybe send a package with a nice handwritten letter to Steven.

To compound my stupidity one month later I bought another online from my cleverly created account so that has the same damn reg number. So in another month I will no doubt get more as we went to Budapest.

 

[Northernraider]

I know this thread is quite old but I found this post interesting.

I am really cross with myself, received a fine from EPC yesterday from our trip to Hungary in September saying no Vignette. I’d bought lots of Vignettes online including Hungary. After very careful checking I’ve realised I made a stupid mistake. The final letter on the number plate is wrong, I put a K instead of an X.

You can appeal but still have to pay the exorbitant £55 admin charge! It all has to happen within 60 days. It says you can do it by post or online. In fact there’s no email address so having read your post maybe that was just as well. We were there 4 days so might wait a few days to maybe send a package with a nice handwritten letter to Steven.

To compound my stupidity one month later I bought another online from my cleverly created account so that has the same damn reg number. So in another month I will no doubt get more as we went to Budapest.

I got a parking ticket in Budapest 3 years ago , binned it .

 

[carolyn]

I got a parking ticket in Budapest 3 years ago , binned it .

I wish I was like you! I am such a law abiding citizen, always try to do the right thing that I would find it too stressful. The EPC are notorious for chasing these things up and the fines escalate horrendously.

The EPC admin charge doubled the fine! It more than doubles again after 60 days.

 

[carolyn]

In my defense it was a brand new van. We’d only picked it up on the 1st August. Had our daughter’s wedding on the 10th and left the country on the 26th so I might not have been multitasking quite as efficiently as usual!

 

[The Coops]

Not questioning your honesty but how have they tracked you down if you put the wrong number in? I would be sending a copy of the V5 and asking what it has to do with you unless you paid by credit card/debit card in which case I would be looking at how they got your details passed on as there was no evasion of debt. Just a thought!

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[Northernraider]

I wish I was like you! I am such a law abiding citizen, always try to do the right thing that I would find it too stressful. The EPC are notorious for chasing these things up and the fines escalate horrendously.

The EPC admin charge doubled the fine! It more than doubles again after 60 days.

They can double it all they like it's just more money they will never get. They prey on people's fear but they will never take it to court as they lose more than they win.

It's unenforceable, I just ignore all and any fines or ticket's that come from outside the UK. And only take local authority ticket's in UK seriously

I've had ones from Portugal too from 2018 etc. Just binned them.

 

[Lenny HB]

They can double it all they like it's just more money they will never get. They prey on people's fear but they will never take it to court as they lose more than they win.

It's unenforceable, I just ignore all and any fines or ticket's that come from outside the UK. And only take local authority ticket's in UK seriously

I've had ones from Portugal too from 2018 etc. Just binned them.

But you never go back into the country with the same registration number.

carolyn if you go back to Hungary put a personal plate on the van.

 

[Northernraider]

But you never go back into the country with the same registration number.

carolyn if you go back to Hungary put a personal plate on the van.

That's true . But I'd still not pay it.

 

[gus-lopez]

The EPC are notorious for chasing these things up

They are also notorious for using deceit, all & any illegal means, breaching the data protection act & GDPR to put pressure on the person. absolute scum of a company

but how have they tracked you down if you put the wrong number in?

probably because they registered for the vignette?
Any way it would not matter as EPC are TFL's chosen company for registering for the London Emission zone & no doubt others,& are an European wide parking & toll registration company & also eu wide debt collectors -Even though it is not legal they use info company wide across all countries.

It's unenforceable, I just ignore all and any fines or ticket's that come from outside the UK.

Yes & no.
As a UK company they can use Uk debt collectors,usually relying on the fact that the recipient has no idea they have used info they should not have done via cross border.Anyone who points out there illegal use of directives that have no relationship to the offence, information obtained illegally & attempting to obtain money by fraudulent means, or attempting to obtain a pecuniary advantage, they leave alone .

** As an aside parking tickets in the UK either have to be received in person at the time by an attendant ,which means you have to pay or if by camera ,recieved within 14 days. I doubt that they would be able to enforce a foreign parking ticket in the Uk outside of those periods.

Although you will never know with EPC as they will attempt to convince a foreigner that a UK parking fine ca be collected 7 months after the date of the alleged offence & that it comes under the "cross border directive" They are just extremely skilful,low life fraudsters & lying barstewards

 

[Littlewheels]

But you never go back into the country with the same registration number.

carolyn if you go back to Hungary put a personal plate on the van.

Isn’t it costing more?
1) Purchase of private plate
2) purchase of said physical plates
3) assignment of plate to vehicle
4) Reversing these points when you sell the vehicle

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[Northernraider]

They are also notorious for using deceit, all & any illegal means, breaching the data protection act & GDPR to put pressure on the person. absolute scum of a company

probably because they registered for the vignette?
Any way it would not matter as EPC are TFL's chosen company for registering for the London Emission zone & no doubt others,& are an European wide parking & toll registration company & also eu wide debt collectors -Even though it is not legal they use info company wide across all countries.

Yes & no.
As a UK company they can use Uk debt collectors,usually relying on the fact that the recipient has no idea they have used info they should not have done via cross border.Anyone who points out there illegal use of directives that have no relationship to the offence, information obtained illegally & attempting to obtain money by fraudulent means, or attempting to obtain a pecuniary advantage, they leave alone .

** As an aside parking tickets in the UK either have to be received in person at the time by an attendant ,which means you have to pay or if by camera ,recieved within 14 days. I doubt that they would be able to enforce a foreign parking ticket in the Uk outside of those periods.

Although you will never know with EPC as they will attempt to convince a foreigner that a UK parking fine ca be collected 7 months after the date of the alleged offence & that it comes under the "cross border directive" They are just extremely skilful,low life fraudsters & lying barstewards

I has a debt collection company "Lowell &co" chase me from 2015 till just last year. First it was letters every month or so then text messages every month that I could not block or reply to. I only spoke with them the once after the first letter demanding £30 I told them I wouldn't be paying it as I had no business or contract with them and instructed them to take me to court , they declined but kept sending letters for about 2 years then texts right up to last year. Their first tactic was to keep adding extra to it ...then after about 4 years they changed tactics and offered me a reduction said if I paid just £11 it would be cancelled. I ignored that too , had various texts offering me help if I couldn't pay blah blah blah and finally they gave up last year.

I reckon that £30 debt they apparently bought cost them 10 times that in wasted letters and automatic texts etc.

I've only paid 2 legitimate parking tickets in my entire life and of course any fines I was issued by the police.

I was chased for years too for the old poll tax which I paid £3 per week to for about 4/5 months then I moved house and stopped paying it again.

They all seem to get bored eventually.