I got EPC Parking and Vignette fines in Hungary. Can I avoid paying? (1 Viewer)

[TobyQuest]

In January I was in Budapest
1) asked the traffic warden can I park here, he said not on this side of the road but the other side is fine. Came back and had a parking ticket. Turns out there was a meter up the road and I was supposed to get a ticket. He never mentioned that!

2) Driving into Hungary from Austria, I was careful to avoid going on the Hungarian motorway because I didnt want to pay for the vignette, however as soon as i crossed into Hungary it put me on a motorway and i took the 1st exit right away but they had cameras on it and i got a fine for driving on the motorway with no vignette.

So fast-forward to now and a week or so ago I received 2 fines for a around £90 each for both of these incidents.
However I dont want to pay them. And I looked up on the net and some sites are saying if you received the notification about the fine more than 60 days after the incident then its invalid.

Anyone know if this is true, or have experience about this?
Anyone who has not paid Euro Parking Collection and what happens next?

The fact that UK is no longer in EU does this also mean they have no power to do anything?

 

[Northernraider]

I don't really understand the question. You (inadvertently) broke a couple of traffic rules, and just because it was in a foreign country, you think you can ignore these rules?

Could a Hungarian driver who did the same thing here in the UK, similarly flout our traffic regulations?

The UK doesn't even bother to try and recover fines from foreigners.

Also from reading the ops post he was caught in a similar way to me.

No signage and no meters where he parked but because there was one further up the road in a foreign language with nothing to indicate how far it went he was fined.


In my case I parked at the very end of a dead end residential street in budapest in a parking space with no signs ,no lines, no meters ...absolutely nothing and yet when I returned to my camper I had a parking ticket in Hungarian that I couldn't understand. So I binned it . And 3 years later I've heard nothing more , well actually they might have sent further correspondence in the last 6 months but I've not been home and no longer live there so the new owners will have binned it instead of me having to.

I've never paid any parking tickets in the UK either unless issued by the local authority. Private companies can get stuffed.

Personally I couldn't care less if foreigners flout our traffic regulations, plenty of brits flout them too. There's too many of them all designed to make someone money . If folk don't pay them then I say good luck to them.

 

[Northernraider]

I always wonder when reading threads like this how people would view motorhome owners from abroad flouting UK parking policies and emissions zones/ speed limits and refusing to pay the fine?

I'd pat them on the back and say go for it.


The UK rarely bothers to try and recover it anyway.

 

[SM0129]

I would just pay the fines. Can you be bothered with the hassle should a debt collection agency appear at your door?

 

[David and Sally]

I would just pay the fines. Can you be bothered with the hassle should a debt collection agency appear at your door?

The “fine” has already been paid by EPC. EPC are now trying to get their profit. I’m no lawyer but I would doubt the the OP has no legal ‘debt’ with EPC.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Northernraider]

I would just pay the fines. Can you be bothered with the hassle should a debt collection agency appear at your door?

That's exactly what they hope you'll think/do

 

[chaser]

Exactly the way I feel about it. Maybe I'm too law abiding but if you do the crime you pay the fine.

Exactly, would they feel the same if the fine had been in Wales?

 

[Rapido925M]

I've had two parking fines in over 50y of driving.

The first one I fought and won: they'd sent it out more than 28 days after the event so the advice forums called it a "Golden Ticket". That still required me to write asking for details of signage etc, write an appeal, write another document for the appeal of the denied appeal and await judgement for over 5 months. Despite being confident that I would win, both my wife and I experienced a degree of stress: I still recall the day I received the notice of success. (We spent €100 on the train up Zugspitze, classing it as money saved.)

I paid the second one without worrying about it: £60 for peace of mind.

Gordon

 

[Tonks]

No signage and no meters where he parked but because there was one further up the road in a foreign language with nothing to indicate how far it went he was fined.

when I returned to my camper I had a parking ticket in Hungarian that I couldn't understand. So I binned it . And 3 years later I've heard nothing more , well actually they might have sent further correspondence in the last 6 months but I've not been home and no longer live there so the new owners will have binned it instead of me having to.

Just mentioning that Hungarian isn't 'a foreign language' in Hungary! And ignorance of the rules in any country is not a defence.

 

[Northernraider]

Just mentioning that Hungarian isn't 'a foreign language' in Hungary! And ignorance of the rules in any country is not a defence.

Don't care

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Sharkfighter]

I would go to pepipoo.com and post on there. They will be able to give the best advice on the legalities of whether EPC can chase you. You can also apply to DVLA to find out who has requested your details, to see if EPC have indeed requested your details.

 

[Cavs]

I don't really understand the question. You (inadvertently) broke a couple of traffic rules, and just because it was in a foreign country, you think you can ignore these rules?

That's the first part of the rules.

The second part seems to be that if the fines process hasn't been started within 60 days of the offence, the fine cannot be enforced. If that's correct, then obeying the rules means there's nothing to pay.

 

[TobyQuest]

I think that probably applies to residents, cross boarder motoring offences they have 12 months to notify you.

Do you know where thats mentioned officially?

 

[TobyQuest]

I don't really understand the question. You (inadvertently) broke a couple of traffic rules, and just because it was in a foreign country, you think you can ignore these rules?

Could a Hungarian driver who did the same thing here in the UK, similarly flout our traffic regulations?

The curious thing about Brits compared to other nationals is theyre the only unpatriotic bunch that love to play Devil's advocate rather than support their fellow countryman. Whether its an issue of a foreign tenant running amok in someone's flat, or whether its a foreign rogue employee or whatever, there's always a handful of Brits that chime in taking the side of the other person. And this just doesnt happen in other cultures. Ive known many others pretty well.

You say you dont understand the question, but Im sure you do. Its not so hard even you could figure it out what the post is about. You're just reframing the question to put words in my mouth which i didnt say, namely that just because it was a foreign country i think i can ignore these rules. It sounds very clear cut when you say it like that but just highlights your intent to discredit a fellow forum member and their enquiry so you can do what, get online qudos for standing up for a foreign parking ticket company? Well done.

1) Foreigners do these things all day long in England, for years theyve driven around in london without being charged congestion charge, parking charge, or speeding fines etc. So in the case i decided i didnt care about driving my vehicle in their countries fair would be fair.

but
2) Thats not what I said. The hungarians had a system of charging me for a toll road that it was impossible to avoid. That doesnt seem fair to be considering i exited at the first opportunity. Fair would have been let me enter the country and allow me to choose the road based on their rule that a vignette is only for motorways.
Regarding the parking ticket, ive seen 7 sets of ticket inspectors go down a street within an hour in Budapest. Its a racket, plain and simple. Also as others have commented, the signage is poor, often only in hungarian if you can find it and their parking system is very different to in england. If i had known to get a ticket i would have done, but feel the omission of the ticket inspector to tell me i need a ticket when discussing with him was his way of ensuring he had another commission through the fine once i left the vehicle. Thats the reason i dont feel like paying, and not for the reasons you insinuated.

 

[Northernraider]

The curious thing about Brits compared to other nationals is theyre the only unpatriotic bunch that love to play Devil's advocate rather than support their fellow countryman. Whether its an issue of a foreign tenant running amok in someone's flat, or whether its a foreign rogue employee or whatever, there's always a handful of Brits that chime in taking the side of the other person. And this just doesnt happen in other cultures. Ive known many others pretty well.

You say you dont understand the question, but Im sure you do. Its not so hard even you could figure it out what the post is about. You're just reframing the question to put words in my mouth which i didnt say, namely that just because it was a foreign country i think i can ignore these rules. It sounds very clear cut when you say it like that but just highlights your intent to discredit a fellow forum member and their enquiry so you can do what, get online qudos for standing up for a foreign parking ticket company? Well done.

1) Foreigners do these things all day long in England, for years theyve driven around in london without being charged congestion charge, parking charge, or speeding fines etc. So in the case i decided i didnt care about driving my vehicle in their countries fair would be fair.

but
2) Thats not what I said. The hungarians had a system of charging me for a toll road that it was impossible to avoid. That doesnt seem fair to be considering i exited at the first opportunity. Fair would have been let me enter the country and allow me to choose the road based on their rule that a vignette is only for motorways.
Regarding the parking ticket, ive seen 7 sets of ticket inspectors go down a street within an hour in Budapest. Its a racket, plain and simple. Also as others have commented, the signage is poor, often only in hungarian if you can find it and their parking system is very different to in england. If i had known to get a ticket i would have done, but feel the omission of the ticket inspector to tell me i need a ticket when discussing with him was his way of ensuring he had another commission through the fine once i left the vehicle. Thats the reason i dont feel like paying, and not for the reasons you insinuated.

I agree with the reasons but should point out you're the rogue foreigner in this instance


My personal view is had I parked recklessly, blocked access or caused a traffic jam etc then perhaps I'd see justice in the ticket but I didn't I was parked in an empty street fully within a parking bay with no meter or sign anywhere near me. So denying the Budapest local authority a lunch on me will not stop me sleeping at night.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Just smiffy]

Anyway, what happened to the data protection act what with all this selling fines and giving other companies your information…

 

[David and Sally]

Anyway, what happened to the data protection act what with all this selling fines and giving other companies your information…

Don’t the DVLA earn from giving out our details to these private company leeches?

 

[Sneds]

It appears that in this case the OP wasn't intentionally 'flouting' the laws but I do agree with you in principle.

Good point

 

[weejocky]

When we were kids doing summat naughty like smoking in the corner of the playground or up to no good hanging round the chippy when a copper or teacher shouted, you lot come here! when we all ran, he'd scream stand still, and there was always some kid that would shit imself freeze and stand still. He’s here now, saying you broke the law, play it safe an pay the fine.

 

[gus-lopez]

and just because it was in a foreign country, you think you can ignore these rules?

he is not ignoring the 'rules' They are attempting to defraud him by asking for payment for a fine that lapsed after no notification for 60 days.

Could a Hungarian driver who did the same thing here in the UK, similarly flout our traffic regulations?

Yes.The Uk always wants the ACTUAL person driving whereas everyone else fines the vehicle owner first

Exactly the way I feel about it. Maybe I'm too law abiding but if you do the crime you pay the fine.

The only people doing the "crime" here are EPC in attempting to extort money for a "fine" that ,if over 60 days, does not exist.They are in fact by knowingly doing so committing fraud as I posted earlier

The “fine” has already been paid by EPC. EPC are now trying to get their profit. I’m no lawyer but I would doubt the the OP has no legal ‘debt’ with EPC.

I very much doubt it. They are probably retained for eu wide collection. By addressing this issue after 60 days they can legally tell the Hungarians that the fine has lapsed whilst attempting to get the foreigner to pay & so keeping all the money for themselves.

That's exactly what they hope you'll think/do

Exactamente!!

Do you know where thats mentioned officially?

It is all in the EU "cross border directive" which encompasses only 8 offences & none of which apply to parking fines even though EPC will attempt to scam a foreigner by saying they do.The directive applies to speeding but only for eu members,of which the uk no longer is.& yes with the 8 offences any EU state has 12 months to issue the fine.Additionally anything that comes under the cross border directive has to be sent to you in the language of your country.
In all honesty EPC themselves should be in court for many of the daily activities they get up to.

Anyway, what happened to the data protection act what with all this selling fines and giving other companies your information…

& exactly the point I made in my first post. They are using information obtained in one business ,illegally in another business & the same in different countries.


* I got a speeding fine in France last year . All legal sent within time period & paid by me. Perfectly acceptable if complying with the rules. If not they do not get paid.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JRT]

* I got a speeding fine in France last year . All legal sent within time period & paid by me. Perfectly acceptable if complying with the rules. If not they do not get paid.

What was the date of the offence and when did the fine land please?

As I posted elsewhere the EU cross border traffic enforcement directive that allowed for this was revoked after we left the EU.

 

[grumps147]

Spain has an agreement with the UK from 2023 for cross border information exchange relating to road safety, which includes traffic offences. I do not know what other countries have….

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ng_Licenses_Road_Safety_Traffic_Offences.docx

 

[JRT]

gus-lopez ignore my question as of course if you are a Spanish resident you can still be ticketed by another EU country.

 

[Boaty]

Is the OP a responsible adult? Having blamed the other parties for his predicament, which he caused now seeking others help to find a loophole to avoid the consequences.
More surprising is the willingness of some other members to aid and abet.
If the OP wants a way out, find it yourself and accept the consequences.

 

[ToGoldlyBo]

So much heat generated! I don't think of parking rules and tolls and speed limits as FAIR! They are just a method we use to try to control traffic for the greater benefit of society. Some are good and some not. Some are clear and some confusing. Some are well signposted and some look as if a local bureaucrat set a trap for the unwary visitor. Etc. however, if I break one of these rules by mistake but get caught, I get cross, especially if it's one where it wasn't 'clear'. But I would still expect to pay (possibly after appeal) because I respect the need for such things even if some of them appear stupid, short-sighted, mismanaged,anti-brit, anti- motorhome, mechanisms for raising cash ,etc. if I made an unwitting mistake (I didn't understand the signage or missed the signage), or I failed to anticipate an eventuality (like being forced onto a motorway when I didn't plan to use motorways), I think that falls on me and is a learning experience for next time. Why do all the blood pressure stuff (including the rants in the forum) and shorten my life? Life is too short. We all own motorhomes, so we are not too poor to pay. If we want to get angry about "justice", I can suggest a few bigger issues.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

So much heat generated! I don't think of parking rules and tolls and speed limits as FAIR! They are just a method we use to try to control traffic for the greater benefit of society. Some are good and some not. Some are clear and some confusing. Some are well signposted and some look as if a local bureaucrat set a trap for the unwary visitor. Etc. however, if I break one of these rules by mistake but get caught, I get cross, especially if it's one where it wasn't 'clear'. But I would still expect to pay (possibly after appeal) because I respect the need for such things even if some of them appear stupid, short-sighted, mismanaged,anti-brit, anti- motorhome, mechanisms for raising cash ,etc. if I made an unwitting mistake (I didn't understand the signage or missed the signage), or I failed to anticipate an eventuality (like being forced onto a motorway when I didn't plan to use motorways), I think that falls on me and is a learning experience for next time. Why do all the blood pressure stuff (including the rants in the forum) and shorten my life? Life is too short. We all own motorhomes, so we are not too poor to pay. If we want to get angry about "justice", I can suggest a few bigger issues.

I think I sort of agree with that a bit except the anti brit bit. I can't think of any laws that are anti brit in any country some maybe seem biased against people from other countries but not specifically Brits in the OPS example I doubt if many Hungarian people could decypher how to pay parking by phone without a really good command of English!

 

[ToGoldlyBo]

I think I sort of agree with that a bit except the anti brit bit. I can't think of any laws that are anti brit in any country some maybe seem biased against people from other countries but not specifically Brits in the OPS example I doubt if many Hungarian people could decypher how to pay parking by phone without a really good command of English!

My list was less one of all the things that trouble me so much as a list of things I read in the forums. I've certainly read about complaints of anti Brit sentiment, though I've never ever experienced it except just possibly in the UK from Brits!!! .

And having recently come back from Budapest,I totally agree about issues of indecipherability, though my point still holds. If my failure to learn Hungarian before travelling (!!!!!!!!) leads me to a minor infringement...oops, my bad!

 

[The Wino]

My list was less one of all the things that trouble me so much as a list of things I read in the forums. I've certainly read about complaints of anti Brit sentiment, though I've never ever experienced it except just possibly in the UK from Brits!!! .

And having recently come back from Budapest,I totally agree about issues of indecipherability, though my point still holds. If my failure to learn Hungarian before travelling (!!!!!!!!) leads me to a minor infringement...oops, my bad!

I feel just the same it's their country if you choose to go you operate by their laws. If they had the parking restrictions in every language from around the world apart from English it would still be anti English speakers around the world not anti brit! Some people do seem to have a persecution complex.

 

[Bramidan]

My true story. Last year we were travelling down through Hungary, two motorhomes.
My friend broke down in Serbia ( long story and not part of this tale) anyway he drove back to the UK, we continued to our house in Turkey.
He later contacted me to say he had been “pinged” by a camera in Hungary and received a notice from EPC to pay £90 which he did because it increased after a period ( can’t remember the exact number of days).
He sent me his details, we were going to be away for 3 months, so I immediately e mailed EPC and explained that both of us had purchased vignettes that morning of the “offence”and perhaps the system had not realised this had happened.
Deafening silence despite me sending numerous chasers. I was not able to access EPC’s system because I needed a reference number in addition to Reg number.
When I got back I tried to phone them, what a joke!
I explained I had never received the notice, they insisted it had been served.
In the end I e mailed the Hungarian Authority and explained the situation.
They provided the photograph which clearly showed the time and date stamp. I explained I had purchased a vignette, there was never an intention to avoid payment.
They explained you have an hour to purchase the vignette once you use their motorways.
They checked their system, I had purchased the vignette, 1 hour and 3 minutes after the photograph. Despite my appeals to them they refused to budge even as a goodwill gesture.
In the end I paid the “fine” direct to the Hungarian Authorities. I told EPC I was not going to pay them the increased charge for late payment as it was entirely their fault for never replying to my e mails when I had asked for all of the details.
I told them I looked forward to seeing them in County Court when I would be seeking my legal costs due to their inefficiency. I’ve had a couple of chasing e mails but just refer them back to my e mail stating I wanted it to proceed to court.
Not heard anything since that time.
We travelled through Hungary end of March en route to Turkey and I made sure I purchased the vignette as soon as I crossed the border, never even went to the toilet in the services!
I didn’t risk buying it online because I thought it might trigger a problem.
No problem at the services so hopefully it’s died a death.
I have to say I’m quite willing to see EPC in court for the late payment part of the demand.

I did toy with the idea of not paying anything, I had purchased a vignette, I was 3 minutes over the allowed grace period but hey figured I couldn’t fight that. It was the most expensive trip to the toilet I’ve ever made!!!!

 

[Graham Deans]

Drove into Hungary from Romania a few years ago and missed first toll place so turned off and bought one from a garage. A couple of weeks later I received a demand from a uk company for a fine. It seems like the Hungarians had used a third party. I had been caught before purchase, but luckily I had the paperwork. This stated that if the vignette was bought within an hour of crossing the border I was not liable to pay, I had made it by a few minutes. I had a really difficult time with the company but eventually they agreed I did not need to pay. Moral, keep such paperwork and check it; it might be worth looking for your paperwork.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JRT]

I'm curious as to why people leave it until they are in Hungary to purchase a vignette, is it not possible to buy one (on line) before you cross the border?