I got EPC Parking and Vignette fines in Hungary. Can I avoid paying? (2 Viewers)

[TobyQuest]

In January I was in Budapest
1) asked the traffic warden can I park here, he said not on this side of the road but the other side is fine. Came back and had a parking ticket. Turns out there was a meter up the road and I was supposed to get a ticket. He never mentioned that!

2) Driving into Hungary from Austria, I was careful to avoid going on the Hungarian motorway because I didnt want to pay for the vignette, however as soon as i crossed into Hungary it put me on a motorway and i took the 1st exit right away but they had cameras on it and i got a fine for driving on the motorway with no vignette.

So fast-forward to now and a week or so ago I received 2 fines for a around £90 each for both of these incidents.
However I dont want to pay them. And I looked up on the net and some sites are saying if you received the notification about the fine more than 60 days after the incident then its invalid.

Anyone know if this is true, or have experience about this?
Anyone who has not paid Euro Parking Collection and what happens next?

The fact that UK is no longer in EU does this also mean they have no power to do anything?

 

[Solwaybuggier]

Not sure how relevant this is but we went to Hungary a few years back, and when we got home found a penalty notice from EPC waiting. We successfully appealed it, but it was a different issue - we’d bought a vignette for the motorway but the guys in the garage we’d bought it from had confused a 0 and a O in our reg no. We’d got flashed on a motorway. We also had a copy of proof of purchase. But the fact OP got both a parking and a vignette charge may make it less likely to succeed!

We were still in the EU at the time, and I wonder if recent thread on here reporting that UK vans were getting clamped for parking in Santander, while EU vans were just getting ticketed, may suggest there is less power to recover penalties?

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

I didn’t think they have any powers to enforce that now but seems I could be wrong

Can unpaid traffic fines stop you crossing EU borders?

European cities are now campaigning for low-emissions zones to be included in new law targeting foreign drivers.

www.euronews.com

 

[lorger]

We received a ticket while parked in Malmo, I know it’s not Hungary but may be relevant. I emailed them explaining I was a tourist and had asked a local regarding parking to which I was told it was ok, they scrapped my ticket and apologised.
Might be worth emailing to explain rather than ignoring.

 

[JRT]

The key thing here is that the authorities in Hungary have been able to gain access to vehicle keeper details from the DVLA in order to be able to trace the person to whom the tickets should be sent. All be it via. EPC.

This would suggest that any arrangements on cross border traffic offences that had been removed post Brexit have been reinstated with Hungary. Otherwise the DVLA wouldn't have provided the details to EPC.

Either that or the use of EPC, a UK based company, circumvents any need for any formal arrangement between both countries.

Therefore it would be unwise to completely ignore the tickets, especially if you plan to ever return to Hungary.

Appeal at least.

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[TobyQuest]

Yes, planning to appeal rather than ignore, but if they reject my appeal then i have to decide whether to pay or ignore their decision. Im inclined with the latter. I expect it will be threats of court action etc, I dont think they can send debt collectors with any authority unless there has been a court judgement and for a court judgement I would be intrigued to see if its in uk or in hungary and if so how it can be applied to the foreign country and their own independent rules.

 

[Phill D]

Yes, planning to appeal rather than ignore, but if they reject my appeal then i have to decide whether to pay or ignore their decision. Im inclined with the latter. I expect it will be threats of court action etc, I dont think they can send debt collectors with any authority unless there has been a court judgement and for a court judgement I would be intrigued to see if its in uk or in hungary and if so how it can be applied to the foreign country and their own independent rules.

I am not sure about this but, don’t EPC buy the debt, therefore they can chase it in the UK.
That may allow them access to UK courts etc.
A difficult one to get to the bottom of.
Maybe go online and ask Matins Money for advice, they have a section on parking fines / invoices etc.

 

[jerryz]

Recently there has been a lot of noise about Digital privacy arrangements not being legal any more between UK and EU and lots of foreign drivers in UK have had fines cancelled or been legally told to ignore .....

 

[The Wino]

I always wonder when reading threads like this how people would view motorhome owners from abroad flouting UK parking policies and emissions zones/ speed limits and refusing to pay the fine?

 

[JRT]

It's a minefield for sure.

I was conscious of this when I posted but was unable to back it up with anything other than 'the man down the pub's opinion'

However this link seems to suggest data exchange for the purposes of law enforcement is still in place.

Law enforcement processing

This guidance explains data protection at the end of the transition period for leaving the EU in more detail. Read it if you have detailed questions not answered in our other resources, or if you need a deeper understanding of data protection law and how it will change if we do not have adequacy...

ico.org.uk

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[David and Sally]

I am not sure about this but, don’t EPC buy the debt, therefore they can chase it in the UK.
That may allow them access to UK courts etc.
A difficult one to get to the bottom of.
Maybe go online and ask Matins Money for advice, they have a section on parking fines / invoices etc.

I seem to remember that buying thing too. But, unless EPC can prove they have bought a valid debt then I can’t see how they can collect on a possible debt.
If they are the people I had to deal with on a UK parking issue they are a slimy bunch and I would just love winding them up with multiple letters all requiring answers and expensive admin time.

 

[Spriddler]

I always wonder when reading threads like this how people would view motorhome owners from abroad flouting UK parking policies and emissions zones/ speed limits and refusing to pay the fine?

It appears that in this case the OP wasn't intentionally 'flouting' the laws but I do agree with you in principle.

 

[vzac]

In my opinion. I have used these sort of companies to fight several cases for me with regard to unpaid money to my business. These companies are slimy and can be aggressive. So with that said from a debt collection angle, they probably buy these fines ( debts) as a lump sum. They will chase all and threaten you with court action etc. But they have also to weigh up how much it will cost them to get that money. I was advised if it was for less than £250 it was not really worth chasing via one of these companies. But you have weigh up the risk of not paying v paying. They may not take court action but can put you on a credit black list, which will affect your score for getting credit for things like phone contracts etc. if you don't ant to clear that in the future you will have to pay the fine plus any interest they have added. Think the default lasts 5 yrs, before it's taken off.

 

[The Wino]

It appears that in this case the OP wasn't intentionally 'flouting' the laws but I do agree with you in principle.

Maybe flouting was too strong a word it implies intent. I should probably have said foreign motorhome owners finding they have incurred fines unintentionally then not paying if they think they can get away with it

 

[Otter Spotter]

Do you want to go to Hungary again ? If so think what action they may be able to take if they clock you on their APNR cameras !

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[vzac]

Do you want to go to Hungary again ? If so think what action they may be able to take if they clock you on their APNR cameras !

But if the debt has been sold to a third party, Hungary may not be interested, as they will have recouped part or all the debt from the sale ?

 

[TobyQuest]

Yes I plan on going to Hungary again but as I said, some suggestions online that if Im notified of the contravention more than 60 days after the date of the incident the fines are invalid...

https://e-justice.europa.eu/169/EN/...UNGARY&action=maximizeMS&clang=en&idSubpage=5

Anyone know how accurate this?

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes I plan on going to Hungary again but as I said, some suggestions online that if Im notified of the contravention more than 60 days after the date of the incident the fines are invalid...

https://e-justice.europa.eu/169/EN/...UNGARY&action=maximizeMS&clang=en&idSubpage=5

Anyone know how accurate this?

I think that probably applies to residents, cross boarder motoring offences they have 12 months to notify you.

 

[Otter Spotter]

But if the debt has been sold to a third party, Hungary may not be interested, as they will have recouped part or all the debt from the sale ?

You could be right Phil

 

[A S R]

Just pay the fines. You committed the offences albeit unknowingly but still did. It could end up costing a LOT more if EPC have the case now. Hungary may not be too interested but it’s not their problem now is it.
Or you could take the gamble and ignore it. I know what I’d be doing.

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[Northernraider]

I got one in Budapest in 2021 , filed it in the bin .

I've had 3 from epc in total from 3 different countries in 3 different vans haven't paid any of them and never will.

 

[lebowski]

I think it's very likely that EPC spotted a business opportunity and offered countries the opportunity to sell their parking/traffic fines on UK registered vehicles. How legal this is would be down to someone challenging it. Someone may already have done that but you'd need to research it. Alternatively you could speak to a solicitor but this may cost you more than the £180 EPC want.

Having dealt with the likes of EPC before they will probably have pitched the fines around the same price as the cost of legal advice/challenge. They will also likely increase the fine quite quickly until you pay. AFAIK they have no right to enter your property to take goods, or to take you to court but they could mess up your credit rating.

Depending on how unjust you feel this is, how far you want to push it, it's down to you to check it all out, or to pay and put it down to experience. I'd fight it (quickly), Mrs L would tut, look to the heavens and say 'just pay it'.....

 

[steve69]

Portugal, 2018. Received a penalty notice for 88 euros for failing to collect a motorway ticket at the start of my journey (don't ask - long story). Told to pay it at any post office. The 2 post offices I tried weren't interested (paperwork, maybe) so I gave up and came home. Haven't heard a thing since.

 

[Northernraider]

Portugal, 2018. Received a penalty notice for 88 euros for failing to collect a motorway ticket at the start of my journey (don't ask - long story). Told to pay it at any post office. The 2 post offices I tried weren't interested (paperwork, maybe) so I gave up and came home. Haven't heard a thing since.

I did that too also in 2018. Entered motorway without a ticket by mistake , told to go to post office etc had the Same result as you and gave up. I received the fine in 2021 ...3 years later. Binned it heard nothing since.

I've had 2 from Portugal the other was a fine for parking in the nature park that I was specifically told by the gnr at the time that it wasn't a fine just a warning....that also took 3 years to turn up and got ignored.

I don't have any of the vehicles now that I did when fines issued.

It's scare tactics most of the time with zero chance of enforcement.

 

[chesterfield hooligan]

A couple of things one a parking ticket in Spain unintentionally obtained so I went to pay at a police station I was told as a uk resident and tourist to ignore it as it was only a municipality issued which I did ignore and nothing, the second was in Portugal a uk reg car to my address small toll road charge loads of letters and threats of debt collection letters until paid last year.

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[gus-lopez]

Anyone who has not paid Euro Parking Collection and what happens next?

Yes me. They are scum & not afraid to use illegal methods to defraud foreigners,.

The fact that UK is no longer in EU does this also mean they have no power to do anything?

Apart from beinga multi European debt collecting/parking fine company they are also ,Transport for Londons "approved" registration agent for lez & ulez.

he key thing here is that the authorities in Hungary have been able to gain access to vehicle keeper details from the DVLA

Because EPC plc have used information obtained in the Uk so breaching the dat protection act & GDPR. over use of info from one country/business in another country/business

The key thing here is that the authorities in Hungary have been able to gain access to vehicle keeper details from the DVLA in order to be able to trace the person to whom the tickets should be sent.

No EPC have done it using dubious ,at the least ,methods

All be it via. EPC.

as above

This would suggest that any arrangements on cross border traffic offences that had been removed post Brexit have been reinstated with Hungary.

No EPC are using info gained incorrectly under gdpr

Otherwise the DVLA wouldn't have provided the details to EPC.

They tell dvla anything they fancy.probably told them it was a UK parkingfine

Either that or the use of EPC, a UK based company, circumvents any need for any formal arrangement between both countries.

"circumvents" is the best word that could be used politely.

I am not sure about this but, don’t EPC buy the debt,

No they are eu wide enforcement company.You will probably find they run the Hungarian toll scheme or similar

I always wonder when reading threads like this how people would view motorhome owners from abroad flouting UK parking policies and emissions zones/ speed limits and refusing to pay the fine?

I never paid illegal ones in the UK

Yes I plan on going to Hungary again but as I said, some suggestions online that if Im notified of the contravention more than 60 days after the date of the incident the fines are invalid...

https://e-justice.europa.eu/169/EN/...UNGARY&action=maximizeMS&clang=en&idSubpage=5

Anyone know how accurate this?

That is correct & legal for both Hungarian nationals & eu citizens. If it is over 60 days when you recieved it then EPC plc are attempting to scamyou as an unknowing foreigner by attempting to gain money under false pretences , obtaining a pecuniary advantage &,if done knowingly which when pulled they will deny & blame 'an untrained employee', committing fraud

I got one in Budapest in 2021 , filed it in the bin .

I've had 3 from epc in total from 3 different countries in 3 different vans haven't paid any of them and never will.

This ^`

I think it's very likely that EPC spotted a business opportunity and offered countries the opportunity to sell their parking/traffic fines on UK registered vehicles.

As said the are an EU wide company who attempted to scam meback in 2018 by claiming that a 7 month old parking fine came under the "cross border directive" which it didn't & had obtained my details illegally under gdpr. When I confronted them with the list of illegal & criminal threats they were claiming ,all in writing that is how gung-ho they are, they disappeared.


In any dealings with them
Never admit who was driving,
speak always in the 3rd party,
address only 1 item at a time,
never use email,sms, etc only use post to do it,

A great source of info is the"Which" parking forum that also covers LEz ,Ulez & stuff like this & you will find epc Plc all over it.

 

[Achilles Heel]

I don't really understand the question. You (inadvertently) broke a couple of traffic rules, and just because it was in a foreign country, you think you can ignore these rules?

Could a Hungarian driver who did the same thing here in the UK, similarly flout our traffic regulations?

 

[The Wino]

I don't really understand the question. You (inadvertently) broke a couple of traffic rules, and just because it was in a foreign country, you think you can ignore these rules?

Could a Hungarian driver who did the same thing here in the UK, similarly flout our traffic regulations?

Exactly the way I feel about it. Maybe I'm too law abiding but if you do the crime you pay the fine.

 

[David and Sally]

Could a Hungarian driver who did the same thing here in the UK, similarly flout our traffic regulations?

Yes probably unless stopped by police. If back in Hungary then unlikely we can do anything.

 

[The Wino]

Yes probably unless stopped by police. If back in Hungary then unlikely we can do anything.

That's wrong too. But two wrongs don't make a right!