Hydraulic Self Levelling Advice

[Bill and Lou]

We have a 5.93m Mercedes Sprinter campervan on order and are considering having a hydraulic self levelling system fitted. Any advice from members who already have it on their campers or motorhomes would be appreciated.

 

[Pablotti]

We’ve got an HPC levelling system being fitted in April. £5500.

 

[Al n Val]

I’ve just picked up my Rapido from SAP doncaster this afternoon, Mick removed the EP levellers from my Comanche and refitted them on the Rapido for £1250 inc all new hydraulic hoses. The pump was remounted underneath again as it was in the Comanche and this time i’ve gone for the touchscreen controller.

It’s bloody brilliant

 

[Clive Mott]

It works. But seriously detracts from your payload.

 

[Blaydon]

Hi there. We have the HPC system. It is really easy and very good for stability. We were away last week in the storms and had no problems with the wind buffering.
We use the system for lunch stops too keeping the world stable in lay-bys.
At home we keep it up to make things near level, not all the way to let water off the roof and I am sure it is a deterrent for theft. I have considered taking off one wheel when we are parked up at home.
Enjoy the luxury of no ramps.

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[Hettie's Crew]

It works. But seriously detracts from your payload.

45kg for the HPC system, less the weight of the jack and ramps.

 

[Puddleduck]

The van next door in the photo had chocks but they still had problems with sink emptying. Also our van is nice and steady when someone gets up in the middle of the night!

At home we use it to stop water from pooling on the roof too.

Our touch screen has a setting for assistance in emptying the grey waste tank I have assumed that means the van can be tilted so the drain tap is at the lowest level and I will be interested to see how much more comes out when we do empty it. Probably time to put cleaning solution through it

 

[MJN2J]

I’ve just picked up my Rapido from SAP doncaster this afternoon, Mick removed the EP levellers from my Comanche and refitted them on the Rapido for £1250 inc all new hydraulic hoses. The pump was remounted underneath again as it was in the Comanche and this time i’ve gone for the touchscreen controller.

It’s bloody brilliant

SAP are really good, we were recommended them by Go European for our Carthago, now installed along with an inverter, SAP are a family run business and Mick is the owner, really nice guy.

 

[ericonabike]

+1 for s and P at Doncaster. Had the system fitted 8 years ago, and figure the cost has so far worked out at around £10 per use! We love it, being transferred to new van shortly, which makes the economics a bit more sensible...

 

[Lemut]

Burstner 727 + E&P = happy camper if you know what I mean. It makes setup so easy. Push a button and its sorted. Solid as a rock. Want to drain the tanks completely? Just jack up the opposing side to the drains using the manual settings. Now the next has to be used with care, jack up one corner to remove a wheel - simples. Down sides? Cost and weight if you are close to your limit. Make sure you have good locking wheel nuts.

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[Al n Val]

It works. But seriously detracts from your payload.

im not sure i’d are entirely with this, the system weighs approx 47kgs I understand, it saves you taking your jack and handle and any big bulky levelling blocks you may use

So yes eats into your payload but not seriously unless you’ve got none to start with, but then you should have done your sums to start with

 

[ChrisL]

E&P for me fitted at SAP in Doncaster last year. If there are any issues with fitting the jacks, SAP have the skills and the tools to fabricate custom made brackets etc. They are engineers not just installers.

 

[bigtwin]

They are engineers not just installers.

I doubt very much that they’re engineers; they didn’t design it, it’s a bought in system. They just fit/install them.

Ian

 

[Three Stars]

We had E&P jacks and VB Full-Air suspension fitted to our current van from new. The systems are linked so the air suspension lowers the van before the jacks operate. This means the van levels at the lowest possible height which makes getting in and out easier. Either system allows the van to be tilted to drain the waste tanks and that does make a difference. When the slope of the pitch requires the jacks to be fully extended with wheels off the ground we still use ramps. However, we don't drive on to them. We raise the van with the jacks and lower it on to the ramps. I don't like the idea of the jacks being fully extended so we sometimes use pads under the footplate to reduce the extension. It's a great system that has performed perfectly for 8 years so far and I wouldn't be without it.

 

[ChrisL]

I doubt very much that they’re engineers; they didn’t design it, it’s a bought in system. They just fit/install them.

Ian

We'll have to agree to disagree Ian, I've worked on major petrochemical projects in the middle east and in the UK and I have no problem describing them as Engineers, they may not have designed the system but they did design and fabricate a solution to be able to install the system to my van when an off the shelf solution was not available. Their solution involved design, fabrication and welding and they did not charge me any extra despite the extra time and materials involved.

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[Trevor Moody]

I have a 6m Ducato and have an electric self levelling system. Cheaper, and no pump or oil tank to take up precious space inside. Very pleased with it. Can be fitted to most makes of van.

Who supplied it for you please and have you contact details?

 

[Al n Val]

I doubt very much that they’re engineers; they didn’t design it, it’s a bought in system. They just fit/install them.

Ian

Actually they are engineers

my E&P system was removed from my Autotrail Comanche and refitted to the new Rapido, both Alko chassis btw. The rear rams, using the original brackets were too long, Mick engineered some shorter brackets which saved me £900 for a pair of shorter rams.

That was also was a big bonus as shorter rams have less lift, 900 quid in my pocket and still have to correct amount of lift.

If you’ve never been to SAP I doubt you’ll understand just how good these guys are, that and the neatness of the installation of everything they have done for me so far makes them faultless imho.

I’m reluctant to recommend anyone apart from SAP

Al

 

[funflair]

I doubt very much that they’re engineers; they didn’t design it, it’s a bought in system. They just fit/install them.

Ian

They do "just fit/install" if the job is straight forward but we all know that these jobs are not always as straight forwards as they should be, they will make new brackets so welding and fabrication, if a plastic tank is in the way they will cut and plastic weld to make it fit, they will also custom make boxes and mounts if required. I suppose we all have a different interpretation of the term "engineer" but they certainly go the extra mile.

 

[Two on Tour]

I doubt very much that they’re engineers; they didn’t design it, it’s a bought in system. They just fit/install them.

Ian

The guys at SAP made a very good job of "engineering" one-off ram mounts to suit our MH>

I had a good look around at some of the engineering work they were doing on other projects while I spent 3 days at their workshops.

 

[HelixA5]

When we started out on our Motorhome journey we were so naïve about weight - possibly because we bought a motorhome that could be configured as a four or two berth, and we thought with all that cupboard space we can just pile in the junk. We even had levelling legs and bigger gas bottles fitted with no real thought to weight! Oh how naïve!

Out of curiosity we visited a weighbridge… and then the panic set in. We have just had Mick at SAP Doncaster fits doughnuts for us and we are being re-plated.

So from a naïve newbie, if I was looking at this afresh, I’d ask Mick to fit legs, fit doughnuts (semi-air suspension) get re-plated to be legal - it takes away a lot of worry, and its only money!!!!!!

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[ARTPLUM]

Broken Link Removed
Hi Bill I’ve had self levering on our MH last year the best thing I have bought it’s a HPC you can’t level it with out getting out of your driving seat from a app on your phone and it comes with a 3 year warranty the unit will fit under the MH and you don’t loose any space in MH if you have it serviced on the 3rd year you get another year warranty and every year after as long as you have it serviced and when you replace the MH they will take it off and fit to your new MH and if you have a problem after fitting they will come out to you

 

[ARTPLUM]

This is my MH

 

[bigtwin]

I know it shouldn’t irk me, but it does. As someone who didn’t formally qualify as an Engineer but who nonetheless spent the majority of my career working alongside, and managing, professional engineers, it dismays me that, unlike our continental cousins, the great British public do not understand what an Engineer is/does. In the UK it seems that anyone who comes into contact with metal in the course of their job is an ‘engineer’, - we even seem to have photocopy engineers! Most of the trades that people refer to as engineers are fabricators, welders, mechanics, fitters, etc but they’re not engineers.

To be clear, I’m not denigrating any of those trades nor am I denigrating SAP; indeed, if our next van doesn’t have levellers already fitted then I’ll probably be heading straight to SAP to have them fitted (with whatever brackets that they need to fabricate for that purpose ).

We'll have to agree to disagree Ian, I've worked on major petrochemical projects in the middle east and in the UK and I have no problem describing them as Engineers, they may not have designed the system but they did design and fabricate a solution to be able to install the system to my van when an off the shelf solution was not available. Their solution involved design, fabrication and welding and they did not charge me any extra despite the extra time and materials involved.

It seems that they fabricated and fitted some brackets to facilitate the fitment of the system. It’s unlikely that they confirmed that the brackets fitted could sustain the anticipated stresses. This would be an integral part of the design process for a professional engineer.

Actually they are engineers

The rear rams, using the original brackets were too long, Mick engineered some shorter brackets which saved me £900 for a pair of shorter rams.

If you’ve never been to SAP I doubt you’ll understand just how good these guys are, that and the neatness of the installation of everything they have done for me so far makes them faultless imho.

I’m reluctant to recommend anyone apart from SAP

Al

I do understand how good they are and will likely use them on my next van. However, as good as they are, they’re clearly fabricators and fitters, not engineers.

They do "just fit/install" if the job is straight forward but we all know that these jobs are not always as straight forwards as they should be, they will make new brackets so welding and fabrication, if a plastic tank is in the way they will cut and plastic weld to make it fit, they will also custom make boxes and mounts if required. I suppose we all have a different interpretation of the term "engineer" but they certainly go the extra mile.

Agreed, it is about the interpretation of the term engineer and it’s just a shame that we diminish the standing of proper engineers by lumping them in with trades people. It’s a bit like referring to nurses as doctors (I know that’s probably a poor analogy given nurses require degrees these days), legal assistants as lawyers, accounts clerks as accountants, draughtsmen (do they still exist?) as architects, etc. It just doesn’t happen but, for some reason, the great British public refer to mechanics (and other trades people) as engineers!

The guys at SAP made a very good job of "engineering" one-off ram mounts to suit our MH>

I had a good look around at some of the engineering work they were doing on other projects while I spent 3 days at their workshops.

I don’t doubt that they are extremely competent fabricators but the fact that they produce metal objects does not make them engineers.

——————-

There you have it, I’ve stood up for the least recognised professional group who are responsible for the whole gamut of technology that we rely on, and use, in our everyday lives!

Time for a beer I think.

Ian

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Broken Link Removed
Hi Bill I’ve had self levering on our MH last year the best thing I have bought it’s a HPC you can’t level it with out getting out of your driving seat from a app on your phone and it comes with a 3 year warranty the unit will fit under the MH and you don’t loose any space in MH if you have it serviced on the 3rd year you get another year warranty and every year after as long as you have it serviced and when you replace the MH they will take it off and fit to your new MH and if you have a problem after fitting they will come out to you

Should that read ‘you can level it without getting out of your driving seat’

 

[ARTPLUM]

Yes your right you can leave it from the drive’s seat

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[Blackadder]

I know it shouldn’t irk me, but it does. As someone who didn’t formally qualify as an Engineer but who nonetheless spent the majority of my career working alongside, and managing, professional engineers, it dismays me that, unlike our continental cousins, the great British public do not understand what an Engineer is/does. In the UK it seems that anyone who comes into contact with metal in the course of their job is an ‘engineer’, - we even seem to have photocopy engineers! Most of the trades that people refer to as engineers are fabricators, welders, mechanics, fitters, etc but they’re not engineers.

To be clear, I’m not denigrating any of those trades nor am I denigrating SAP; indeed, if our next van doesn’t have levellers already fitted then I’ll probably be heading straight to SAP to have them fitted (with whatever brackets that they need to fabricate for that purpose ).



It seems that they fabricated and fitted some brackets to facilitate the fitment of the system. It’s unlikely that they confirmed that the brackets fitted could sustain the anticipated stresses. This would be an integral part of the design process for a professional engineer.



I do understand how good they are and will likely use them on my next van. However, as good as they are, they’re clearly fabricators and fitters, not engineers.



Agreed, it is about the interpretation of the term engineer and it’s just a shame that we diminish the standing of proper engineers by lumping them in with trades people. It’s a bit like referring to nurses as doctors (I know that’s probably a poor analogy given nurses require degrees these days), legal assistants as lawyers, accounts clerks as accountants, draughtsmen (do they still exist?) as architects, etc. It just doesn’t happen but, for some reason, the great British public refer to mechanics (and other trades people) as engineers!



I don’t doubt that they are extremely competent fabricators but the fact that they produce metal objects does not make them engineers.

——————-

There you have it, I’ve stood up for the least recognised professional group who are responsible for the whole gamut of technology that we rely on, and use, in our everyday lives!

Time for a beer I think.

Ian

Definition of an engineer - someone who wants to multiply 4 by 4, gets out a slide rule, makes it 3.99 but calls it 4 for practical purposes.
Engineer? Last week I couldn't spell the word - now I are one...

Spent my whole life fixing things that put marks on paper (including copiers). Yes, strictly speaking I was a technician but it came under the general banner of "Service Engineering"

 

[BillandHelen]

I doubt very much that they’re engineers; they didn’t design it, it’s a bought in system. They just fit/install them.

Ian

Eh, no, they are engineers not fitters. You discover that when you have a problem and they fabricate new fittings etc to make things work. They are quite capable of building vans from scratch, which may well be the next venture!!

 

[Blackadder]

And back on the thread, having spent most of last year deciding which system...
Tesa - liked the fact that it was electrical (I stand a fair chance of being able to fault-find it). Liked the price. Lightweight? However, with the exception of one very positive recommendation everyone I spoke to (including a company that installed them) said it was really more like a stabilising system than levelling.
E&P - heard a few reports of "unintended ram dropping". This may have been down to poor maintenance but was a bit worrying. Not cheap and amongst the heaviest. Spoke to one company who had stopped installing them due to reliability problems. Without casting any aspersions on their work I don't believe SAP are the only company in the UK who are any good and certainly not prepared to drive the length of England to find out. Can't help thinking it's a bit of "forum syndrome" (you see same thing on other forums too - a company or product gets recommended, more amd more people follow the recommendation and before you know it it's a self-fulfilling prophesy).
MaVe - No bad reports. Spoke to distributor who seemed clued-up. Liked the warranty and service back-up (though I since learned this may not exist). Slightly cheaper. BUT --- several reports of no stock in UK and uncertain delivery from Italy.
HPC - No bad reports. Similar cost to other hydraulics. Significantly lighter. Visit to local installer (LNB in Bristol) and demo gave +ve impression.
Chose the HPC, mainly because of weight and local installer. Installation was painless (even the free courtesy car was clean and half full of petrol). Seems to work OK but not enough use to know for sure yet. Need to get on a weighbridge to decide if I need to risk ditching the jack.

 

[funflair]

I know it shouldn’t irk me, but it does. As someone who didn’t formally qualify as an Engineer but who nonetheless spent the majority of my career working alongside, and managing, professional engineers, it dismays me that, unlike our continental cousins, the great British public do not understand what an Engineer is/does. In the UK it seems that anyone who comes into contact with metal in the course of their job is an ‘engineer’, - we even seem to have photocopy engineers! Most of the trades that people refer to as engineers are fabricators, welders, mechanics, fitters, etc but they’re not engineers.

To be clear, I’m not denigrating any of those trades nor am I denigrating SAP; indeed, if our next van doesn’t have levellers already fitted then I’ll probably be heading straight to SAP to have them fitted (with whatever brackets that they need to fabricate for that purpose ).



It seems that they fabricated and fitted some brackets to facilitate the fitment of the system. It’s unlikely that they confirmed that the brackets fitted could sustain the anticipated stresses. This would be an integral part of the design process for a professional engineer.



I do understand how good they are and will likely use them on my next van. However, as good as they are, they’re clearly fabricators and fitters, not engineers.



Agreed, it is about the interpretation of the term engineer and it’s just a shame that we diminish the standing of proper engineers by lumping them in with trades people. It’s a bit like referring to nurses as doctors (I know that’s probably a poor analogy given nurses require degrees these days), legal assistants as lawyers, accounts clerks as accountants, draughtsmen (do they still exist?) as architects, etc. It just doesn’t happen but, for some reason, the great British public refer to mechanics (and other trades people) as engineers!



I don’t doubt that they are extremely competent fabricators but the fact that they produce metal objects does not make them engineers.

——————-

There you have it, I’ve stood up for the least recognised professional group who are responsible for the whole gamut of technology that we rely on, and use, in our everyday lives!

Time for a beer I think.

Ian

Interesting debate that I would love to have with you some time but maybe should not hijack this thread

 

[Two on Tour]

I don’t doubt that they are extremely competent fabricators but the fact that they produce metal objects does not make them engineers.

What does then in your eyes?
I'm not being confrontational, but genuinely interested, I might not agree with you, on the other hand, I might.

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[funflair]

And back on the thread, having spent most of last year deciding which system...
Tesa - liked the fact that it was electrical (I stand a fair chance of being able to fault-find it). Liked the price. Lightweight? However, with the exception of one very positive recommendation everyone I spoke to (including a company that installed them) said it was really more like a stabilising system than levelling.
E&P - heard a few reports of "unintended ram dropping". This may have been down to poor maintenance but was a bit worrying. Not cheap and amongst the heaviest. Spoke to one company who had stopped installing them due to reliability problems. Without casting any aspersions on their work I don't believe SAP are the only company in the UK who are any good and certainly not prepared to drive the length of England to find out. Can't help thinking it's a bit of "forum syndrome" (you see same thing on other forums too - a company or product gets recommended, more amd more people follow the recommendation and before you know it it's a self-fulfilling prophesy).
MaVe - No bad reports. Spoke to distributor who seemed clued-up. Liked the warranty and service back-up (though I since learned this may not exist). Slightly cheaper. BUT --- several reports of no stock in UK and uncertain delivery from Italy.
HPC - No bad reports. Similar cost to other hydraulics. Significantly lighter. Visit to local installer (LNB in Bristol) and demo gave +ve impression.
Chose the HPC, mainly because of weight and local installer. Installation was painless (even the free courtesy car was clean and half full of petrol). Seems to work OK but not enough use to know for sure yet. Need to get on a weighbridge to decide if I need to risk ditching the jack.

E+P have been the “go to” system for MORELO and many other big German vans for a long time BUT they have just switched over to HPC.