How to stay longer off grid (compressor fridge).

Can anyone help me by explaining how a b2b works and why it would be beneficial?
 
A b2b runs proper charging profiles for the specific battery type fitted/selected. A b2b will fully charge battery’s to 100%. Obviously you need to move/run the engine for a b2b to work. It is in place of a split charge relay
 
Bag of ice keeps a fridge Cool for a few days.

The remains can be used for water purposes?

Just a thought!

It's how I use my 12v cool box on short trips!

Cheers James
 
Wondering star said:
If I was off grid enjoying peace and solitude the last thing I would want is some inconsiderate neighbours starting up a generator.
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If I am off grid it would be in a place where there are no neighbours, however I would not like anyone near me to fire up a noisy genny, but a lot of smaller gennys do not cause a lot of noise
 
Wondering star said:
In my opinion not much, you could add more solar but that's unlikely to give you what you want at this time of the year.
Our PVC had 200W of solar and two 95 Ah AGM batteries. Last October in the lakes we lasted just over two days, compressor fridge and diesel heating.
We go back to the lakes next week for a few days now with two 95Ah lithium batteries and it will be interesting to compare performance as weather conditions are expected to be similar i.e no sun and plenty of rain.
In the summer months with the obvious solar gain we had no problems off grid, infact the lowest reading at the start of each day was 78% of charge remaining and by mid afternoon they were fully charged.
Lithium is expensive and not for every one, if you spend most of your time on four star sites it's probably not necessary but if like us you like nothing better than camping in the middle of a field it totally changes the way you can off grid.
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Really interesting to see your results with the lithium batteries please let us know how they perform 🙂

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The compressor fridges are certainly simpler and easier (no having to switch 'fuel' source, have them services etc) but we didn't like the one in our Campscout as it drained the batteries and was noisy at night (I'm a light sleeper) but as it's just the latter that is an issue and you can meet the power requirements of it and your other stuff then stick with it and add extra 'electrical' kit to keep it happy.

I have to admit that when we changed it one of the must have requirements was a 3-way AES fridge which our Carthago has and we love it.
 
davidroxburgh said:
Do look at an under seat battery. My new 200 Ah lithium fitted. Under the passenger seat and was less wide than the 2 old AGM’s. Depth about 1 cm less and height at least 1 cm less. I chose KSEnergy - cracking guy Neal owns. £1200. Roamer do one cheaper but KS give a 10 year warranty.
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Just had a look at the website.

No modifications to my current vehicle or solar system needed, just old batteries out and new in, am I reading that right? 🤔
 
Sapper520 said:
Just had a look at the website.

No modifications to my current vehicle or solar system needed, just old batteries out and new in, am I reading that right? 🤔
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A lot of Lithium suppliers say they are a drop in replacement. They will work but if you want the best out of them you will need to upgrade your charging sources.

If you don't have a B2B or one with the correct profile you will need one or a new one.
Solar regulator needs the correct charging profile.
And if you use EHU you may need a new mains charger.
 
We have a Honda Eu10i, converted to gas. Only used either when on own or with consideration with others, so far charged up someone else’s batteries to run their cap machine so giving someone a longer time away. Couple of flat batteries as they had not enough solar. Appreciate always that they should be used sparingly. We are having 3 175 watt panels, a 2 kw inverter charger and 2 x 100 transporter batteries fitted in a couple of weeks. As our 2 95 AGM’s and 100 watt panel are not enough, especally as we have a Dometic freezer box. But if someone asked the question about alternative means I think its is wrong to decry them. If it was pointed out the consequences of using a generator it would be more constructive that to foist your opinion of them. I don't like needles but I had my jabs as I prefer living and did not pass my own view on others in a negative way.

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Lenny HB said:
A lot of Lithium suppliers say they are a drop in replacement. They will work but if you want the best out of them you will need to upgrade your charging sources.

If you don't have a B2B or one with the correct profile you will need one or a new one.
Solar regulator needs the correct charging profile.
And if you use EHU you may need a new mains charger.
Click to expand...

That seals it Lenny, it puts it firmly in the ‘too hard to do’ box for me. ;)
 
Wombles said:
Looks a good option for when ours need replacing - which model battery do you have? Would be an easy, effective option to know it just fits in :)
EDIT Presume it's this one https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/blog/200...ttery-for-the-worlds-most-popular-van-chassis ?
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Hi Karen

It is the KS-SB 200B. Another great benefit for me was saving 30KG weight. I had underestimated the effect of all those lovely extras that the dealer had ordered! Now with careful pruning or changing what we take we should now be just about within the 3,500 weight.

Neal Morris who owns KS Energy has posted 3 videos on the issue of the possible effect on your alternator of charging the lithium direct. I can follow so much but the detailed calculations rather went over my head. He fitted my battery and from my perspective I was highly relieved.

The issue of the trinity of solar, vehicle and mains charging is complex. In my case I already had a Votronic solar regulator so by good fortune that had a Li setting already. Vehicle charging - Westfalia do not do things by halves but what a lot of work to identify what it has relative to charging etc. It turned out that it already had a heavy duty relay Daimler made that has a capacity of 150 Amps. The Westfalia wiring and also that installed by the German dealer was clearly also judged to be heavyweight.

The Westfalia does not have either an EBL a Sargeant a CBE or anything similar. It does have quite a detailed digital control panel and all the functions survived the new battery - save that I will rely on the Bluetooth App for battery SOC rather than the Westfalia display.

So after installation of the battery, when driving home, I was charging the lithium at between 40 and 46 Amps until the battery neared 14 Amps and the rate steadily throttled back to the point showing only the compressor fridge draw. I had already bought a Votronic 12 12-30 B2B because it is tiny and space under the seat is an issue. After swopping over the new for the old 2 AGM's there is more space and where the solar regulator is stuck to the battery to the right the Votronic should go to the left. So that achieves good air flow through the fold down black plastic rear seat space cover and avoid taking up other hard earned space!

It is probably the case that I do not NEED to fit the B2B or rather have it fitted, but I shall do that. It is likely that the B2B will mostly be throttling back the charge, but I shall feel more comfortable doing that. I would stress for the interest of others that I was quite lucky in the various Westfalia stuff, the wiring and that installed by the German dealer. Ironically the larger Votronic B2B may just have fitted, but my take is that when we drive to see our son in Spain, the extra hours driving will not be here nor there. In any event I gather Lithium may quite like not being fully charged all the time.

The German made mains charger is geared to AGM but the firm said they could "reprogramme a profile" for lithium - cost reasonable but shipping and handling would make it more costly. If we ever go to Germany maybe we will have that done. The rate of charge was checked and found acceptable but my take is that if as I suspect, we keep the lithium battery charged above 75% why bother with mains anyway? The sense of freedom form that cable is great! If we did use mains I would disconnect if the charge got over say 90%.

The Votronic 1500 inverter will probably be better served as well. Almost all this stuff has over under and all in between safety cut-off.

So provide you research your own van and the various aspects lithium has huge benefits in my view. Cost to date around £1,700 plus fitting B2B to come. I got £23 for the old batteries from a scrapie!

Happy to continue here or PM - 10 year warranty on battery too!
 
davidroxburgh said:
Hi Karen

It is the KS-SB 200B. Another great benefit for me was saving 30KG weight. I had underestimated the effect of all those lovely extras that the dealer had ordered! Now with careful pruning or changing what we take we should now be just about within the 3,500 weight.

Neal Morris who owns KS Energy has posted 3 videos on the issue of the possible effect on your alternator of charging the lithium direct. I can follow so much but the detailed calculations rather went over my head. He fitted my battery and from my perspective I was highly relieved.

The issue of the trinity of solar, vehicle and mains charging is complex. In my case I already had a Votronic solar regulator so by good fortune that had a Li setting already. Vehicle charging - Westfalia do not do things by halves but what a lot of work to identify what it has relative to charging etc. It turned out that it already had a heavy duty relay Daimler made that has a capacity of 150 Amps. The Westfalia wiring and also that installed by the German dealer was clearly also judged to be heavyweight.

The Westfalia does not have either an EBL a Sargeant a CBE or anything similar. It does have quite a detailed digital control panel and all the functions survived the new battery - save that I will rely on the Bluetooth App for battery SOC rather than the Westfalia display.

So after installation of the battery, when driving home, I was charging the lithium at between 40 and 46 Amps until the battery neared 14 Amps and the rate steadily throttled back to the point showing only the compressor fridge draw. I had already bought a Votronic 12 12-30 B2B because it is tiny and space under the seat is an issue. After swopping over the new for the old 2 AGM's there is more space and where the solar regulator is stuck to the battery to the right the Votronic should go to the left. So that achieves good air flow through the fold down black plastic rear seat space cover and avoid taking up other hard earned space!

It is probably the case that I do not NEED to fit the B2B or rather have it fitted, but I shall do that. It is likely that the B2B will mostly be throttling back the charge, but I shall feel more comfortable doing that. I would stress for the interest of others that I was quite lucky in the various Westfalia stuff, the wiring and that installed by the German dealer. Ironically the larger Votronic B2B may just have fitted, but my take is that when we drive to see our son in Spain, the extra hours driving will not be here nor there. In any event I gather Lithium may quite like not being fully charged all the time.

The German made mains charger is geared to AGM but the firm said they could "reprogramme a profile" for lithium - cost reasonable but shipping and handling would make it more costly. If we ever go to Germany maybe we will have that done. The rate of charge was checked and found acceptable but my take is that if as I suspect, we keep the lithium battery charged above 75% why bother with mains anyway? The sense of freedom form that cable is great! If we did use mains I would disconnect if the charge got over say 90%.

The Votronic 1500 inverter will probably be better served as well. Almost all this stuff has over under and all in between safety cut-off.

So provide you research your own van and the various aspects lithium has huge benefits in my view. Cost to date around £1,700 plus fitting B2B to come. I got £23 for the old batteries from a scrapie!

Happy to continue here or PM - 10 year warranty on battery too!
Click to expand...
Thank you David - all very helpful (y) Our original batteries are still ok for now but if/when we replace them sure that Alan would appreciate talking technical with you :) I have shown him this as it's all over my head!
 
putting bigger batteries in will increase the time of grid once but then you need to get power back into then b2bif your traveling every day but if your static its either genny/efoy or ehu the genny/efoy both need the space to carry them and their fuel

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We had our lithium conversion done by RoadPro who fitted a complete system including B2B, battery management and small screen to monitor the whole thing.
The B2B whacks in something like 40+amps when we start driving.
I know there are cheaper options but having it all done by professionals was simple and you know it will be a good job.
Other similar companies are available! :LOL:

Richard.
 
Clarky said:
We had our lithium conversion done by RoadPro who fitted a complete system including B2B, battery management and small screen to monitor the whole thing.
The B2B whacks in something like 40+amps when we start driving.
I know there are cheaper options but having it all done by professionals was simple and you know it will be a good job.
Other similar companies are available! :LOL:

Richard.
Click to expand...
Thanks Richard, with my level of expertise (nil) I need someone who can do the complete job so appreciate the recommendation. Would you mind letting me know (here or pm) cost? Thanks Liz
 
Johnen said:
If I am off grid it would be in a place where there are no neighbours, however I would not like anyone near me to fire up a noisy genny, but a lot of smaller gennys do not cause a lot of noise
Click to expand...
In an ideal world but these days its very rare to find a wild spot with no other vans or indeed houses nearby ....yes there are some of course but usually anywhere nice to stop there are others doing the same thing not far from you ...ive noticed anywhere ive been parked that anyone firing up a genny is generally not well received even the alleged quiet running ones aren't that quiet when you're away from noisy towns etc ....the drone csn often be carried for miles
 
Agree with most comments that lithium, more solar and B2B would all help. How you use the van determines the weight you apply to each variable, ie more tiltable solar ( especially if in Scotland) and a B2B if driving regularly. Lithium is good for storage of any of the power sources as it means that you can last longer between top ups.

The one thing not mentioned is your solar controller- is it MPPT? If no you should consider replacing it and when getting a new one make sure it is lithium compatible.
I would stay with the compressor fridge in your situation.

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This site contains affiliate links for which MHF may be compensated.
Jamesh said:
How about a wind turbine?
Compliments the solar power?

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Cheers James
Click to expand...
So that is interesting. We saw these used on boats. I wonder if anyone has used on a camper?
 
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paddymcc said:
The one thing not mentioned is your solar controller- is it MPPT? If no you should consider replacing it and when getting a new one make sure it is lithium compatible.
I would stay with the compressor fridge in your situation.
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OK this is embarrassing. It’s under driver seat along with both leisure batteries but no idea what it is and no way of seeing how much we’re generating other than battery Indictator goes green from orange when it’s sunny off grid.
 
Grianan said:
OK this is embarrassing. It’s under driver seat along with both leisure batteries but no idea what it is and no way of seeing how much we’re generating other than battery Indictator goes green from orange when it’s sunny off grid.
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That's why mobile phones have cameras ... saves you trying to get your head down there to see what it says! :giggle:
 
Grianan said:
Can anyone help me by explaining how a b2b works and why it would be beneficial?
Click to expand...
DO what we did,
200ah lithium
Victron 30a b2b, helps by charing your batteries when sun aint playing, mine was none euro alternator so enging running would pump n about 35-40a when running with alternator too.
Victron MPPT
400w solar

Plenty time offf grid 3 way fridge no real problem on leccy though I would turn it off overnight sometimes if I hadnt drove anywhere and sun hadnt shone. Never got below 30% this last year, lakes, lowlands/highlands and wales.
Coffee machine, straighteners, tv, high power laptop for work, the odd microwave, and small 2 slice toaster. Via invertor.

Im between vans at the moment, but I will be replicating the set up exactly on the new one, it just works.

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Grianan said:
So that is interesting. We saw these used on boats. I wonder if anyone has used on a camper?
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Just be sure it's small enough to take inside.

Not sure how you would mount it was going to say by the jockey wheel but I might be thrown out the club!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

Cheers James
 
I am surprised how little time some on here manage off grid. We have 2 AGM batteries and no solar. Fridge is not working on gas at the moment. Even so we managed 3 nights off grid and the batteries had loads left. Stuff melting in the fridge was the only issue.

Electiric is just lights (led) phones, tablets and computer. I'm sure they'd go on for a week. All cooking on gas.
 
Grianan said:
OK this is embarrassing. It’s under driver seat along with both leisure batteries but no idea what it is and no way of seeing how much we’re generating other than battery Indictator goes green from orange when it’s sunny off grid.
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I suspect that it is a PWM controller if you don't know as dealers will fit the cheapest that they can get away with. But try to use your camera as per Minxy Girl but don't drop it ( although taking the seat off was less difficult than I thought it would be) ! If fitted by Globecar it might be a MPPT.
 
VXman said:
Stuff melting in the fridge was the only issue.
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But that's the point surely. Stuff defrosting is a potential disaster, especially if you eat meat

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