How many amps can I bang into my leisure batteries without cooking them?

[funflair]

So your system uses temperature sensing to alter the charging voltage???
I didnt know that was necessary or used with lithium..
Andy..

 Connection for Battery Temperature Sensor (Order No. 2001): Lead batteries: In case of low outside temperatures, full charging of the weak battery is improved by automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature, and in case of summery temperatures unnecessary battery gassing and battery load will be avoided.
LiFePO4 Batteries: Battery protection in case of high temperatures and particularly in case of low temperatures. Highly recommended, if the battery temperature might drop below 0 °C during operation.
.

My take on that Andy is that if it was lead profile Yes but in LiFePO4 profile only for "battery protection", Not for any temperature compensation.
.

 

[CazPaul]

Wow there is a lot of variables and parameters for lithium it may be hard to do the first one keeping the temperature under 30 if possible. If you tour in the summer in a hot climate.

I'm not certain that lithium would be ideal for us as the van is outside throughout winter up here on the moors where it's sometimes cocooned by ice.

 

[jongood]

Wow there is a lot of variables and parameters for lithium it may be hard to do the first one keeping the temperature under 30 if possible. If you tour in the summer in a hot climate.

I'm not certain that lithium would be ideal for us as the van is outside throughout winter up here on the moors where it's sometimes cocooned by ice.

do you not leave the heating on low Paul? I always used to leave the Arto on a low setting on ehu although I prefer to be using it.

edit to say, this is the circucmstances that I would consider turning the chargers off

 

[funflair]

do you not leave the heating on low Paul? I always used to leave the Arto on a low setting on ehu although I prefer to be using it.

edit to say, this is the circucmstances that I would consider turning the chargers off

I think it all depends on how your van behaves when non plugged in Jon, by that I mean how long will it sit with the chargers off before the batteries are drained by the remaining habitation loads, ours uses about 25 amps per day which although it seems excessive it also seem normal compared to other MORELO or Concorde owners experience, as I don't even have the option of hook up in the shed I just let the batteries come down from 100% and then flick the isolator they will then sit for months without loosing charge as the only thing connected is then the battery master. If it was sat outside on solar I might consider running a lower bulk and float voltage which I can do on the Votronic and it will drop 0.2v from each.
.

 

[JockandRita]

Is this one better than the lump hammer and post Jock?

View attachment 439197

The little finger is for scale only and it will take bigger fingers or even crimps,

You will need your own lump hammer jongood but you can borrow it if you need it
.

The very same is in that photo I posted previously Martin, next to the hydraulic crimpers in the yellow box.

I dont think temperature extremes are going to be a problem because the batteries are in the garage which is heated when its cold. and I think if I had in parked up in cold weather I would turn the chargers off.

Unless it has to go into winter storage, which was our experience one year (2015 I think), when the temperature inside the MH dropped to minus 5 degrees C. It was minus 15 degrees C outside.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[funflair]

Wow there is a lot of variables and parameters for lithium it may be hard to do the first one keeping the temperature under 30 if possible. If you tour in the summer in a hot climate.

I'm not certain that lithium would be ideal for us as the van is outside throughout winter up here on the moors where it's sometimes cocooned by ice.

Tucked away in a garage Paul they don't tend to get too hot or too cold, our Buttner display has temperature monitoring on the batteries and even when it was hot (remember that ) and I was running the air con from the batteries the temperature was still pretty low and under 30 I think.
.

 

[CazPaul]

do you not leave the heating on low Paul? I always used to leave the Arto on a low setting on ehu although I prefer to be using it.

edit to say, this is the circucmstances that I would consider turning the chargers off

Not heated Jon when stored, we have got planning permission for a timber garage but not done it due to Covid and don't know if the cost justifies it.

Maybe best to leave it on low heat on the Alde when it's really cold then.

We will probably be in your position shortly as our x2 140 gels are original in their 16th year now so won't last forever, assuming your gels have had it that is.

 

[funflair]

The very same is in that photo I posted previously Martin, next to the hydraulic crimpers in the yellow box.


Unless it has to go into winter storage, which was our experience one year (2015 I think), when the temperature inside the MH dropped to minus 5 degrees C. It was minus 15 degrees C outside.

Cheers,

Jock.

All your battery cables 80mm sq are done with that one

That would be the only year I drained Flair down (yes it was slow)
.

 

[funflair]

Jon

This is from one of my favourite reads

Summary:

• When staying on shore for a longer period of time: float voltage do not exceed 13.3V - 13.5V. If necessary, switch off the charger and let the solar system work. It also saves money as no electricity is required for 12V consumers.
• If the device is not used for a long period of time: Disconnect the 80% charged lipos from the system, check the voltage every 2 months. Be sure to recharge the lipo from 13V.
• Recharge the Lipo immediately after a deep discharge. Do not leave it completely discharged, as the built-in lipo balancers have a small internal consumption, which leads to further discharge.
• Commute between 25% and 75% in daily cyclical operation. This is a little more difficult in everyday practice.
• If possible, switch off the charger after the Lipo has been fully charged. 1 hour absorption charge with 14.3 - 14.8V is sufficient.

 

[funflair]

Thats great Martin. I ve just found out the bloke whose helping me with it has got a crimper

And I have just bought a box of 100 32A wago connectors for the lower amperage jobs, I only needed a few to put some speakers in, they are dead easy to use
.

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[jongood]

And I have just bought a box of 100 32A wago connectors for the lower amperage jobs, I only needed a few to put some speakers in, they are dead easy to use
.

Even the pros are using them these days Martin, our whole house is done in them.

1st battery test is progressing, 5 hours in with a 9 amp load its down to 12.5 volts although I'm guessing the reason Lenny HB said to disconnect and let the battery stand for 30 minutes it to let the battery recover and the voltage would go up a bit?

 

[Lenny HB]

Even the pros are using them these days Martin, our whole house is done in them.

1st battery test is progressing, 5 hours in with a 9 amp load its down to 12.5 volts although I'm guessing the reason Lenny HB said to disconnect and let the battery stand for 30 minutes it to let the battery recover and the voltage would go up a bit?

Yes you need to disconnect the load and leave for at least ½ an hour preferably longer. Other wise you are measuring on load voltage which is meaningless in this type of test as the voltage will vary with the size of the load.

 

[jongood]

in fact using Lennys method with a 220 amp battery if I run my 9 amps for 6.1 hours I should have used 25% and be at 12.65v?

 

[Lenny HB]

batteries are drained by the remaining habitation loads, ours uses about 25 amps per day which although it seems excessive it also seem normal compared to other MORELO or Concorde owners experience

Sounds a lot but even my little Hymer with the panel on (which it always is) draws around 400ma which is 9.6 a/h a day.

 

[funflair]

Sounds a lot but even my little Hymer with the panel on (which it always is) draws around 400ma which is 9.6 a/h a day.

I agree but was reading a post on a German forum a few days ago and the experience of other MORELO owners seems to confirm it as normal, as I have a clamp meter I might try to find out where it all goes one day but flicking the isolator seems like a good solution.
.

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[Lenny HB]

Been playing with my electrics today and after switching of the loads I had on it's sitting there drawing zero current, I've never seen that before, weird.

 

[jongood]

I ran the first battery with my 9 amps of headlamps bulbs on for 12 hours yesterday. disconnected and left it to stand and it was at 12.5v, a few minutes ago which is ahead of Lennys chart?

 

[Lenny HB]

I ran the first battery with my 9 amps of headlamps bulbs on for 12 hours yesterday. disconnected and left it to stand and it was at 12.5v, a few minutes ago which is ahead of Lennys chart?

Should be good for at least another 5 years, no Lithiums for you then.

 

[funflair]

That's pretty promising on the Gel front, I don't think that Gel's get properly charged when just on a split charge from starter batteries so if you are keeping the gels for a while longer it will be worth fitting a B2B and solar chargers with Gel profile or you could just tell Sue pft they are knackered and crack on with Lithium.

You did disconnect the solar for the test, didn't you

 

[jongood]

Should be good for at least another 5 years, no Lithiums for you then.

Looking on the bright side they might be cheaper then.......

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[jongood]

That's pretty promising on the Gel front, I don't think that Gel's get properly charged when just on a split charge from starter batteries so if you are keeping the gels for a while longer it will be worth fitting a B2B and solar chargers with Gel profile or you could just tell Sue pft they are knackered and crack on with Lithium.

You did disconnect the solar for the test, didn't you

I disconnected the batteries totally and connected the hl bulbs using a spare set of terminals. I'm wondering whether to also test the second battery?

I don't think my hab batteries are linked to the starter batteries Martin, I'm thinking my next step is to get them both flattish connect them back up and start the engine with the clamp meter around the positive terminal so I can see what is getting their from the 12 volt alternator.

 

[Lenny HB]

You need to test both batteries as if the other one is poorly it will drag the good one down.

 

[funflair]

I disconnected the batteries totally and connected the hl bulbs using a spare set of terminals. I'm wondering whether to also test the second battery?

I don't think my hab batteries are linked to the starter batteries Martin, I'm thinking my next step is to get them both flattish connect them back up and start the engine with the clamp meter around the positive terminal so I can see what is getting their from the 12 volt alternator.

OK Jon

Test second battery Yes for sure, sorry I was thinking of another Clou that didn't use the 12v alternator
.

 

[jongood]

You need to test both batteries as if the other one is poorly it will drag the good one down.

That will be a proper dilemma wont it? £500 on another Gel to put beside an older one or £2k for Lithium?

 

[jongood]

OK Ive been through the same routine with both batteries Ive taken 120amps over 14.5 hours out of each of them. and allowing them to recover they came back up to 12.05 and 12.03 volts respectively. So I'm concluding the they re basically OK.

Ive disconnected the solar and reconnected my low batteries and started the engine and I'm getting 28amps from my 12 volt alternator.

Ive then put the clamp meter on the battery lead with the engine stopped and I've got a 0.9 amp drain.

All these values are about the same as displayed on the standard CBE panel.

So I'm thinking I just need to up the charging capability so plan is:

Replace the existing solar and pwm regulator with 445amps and mppt regulator 26amps max

battery to battery
https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en...e-intelligent-battery-to-battery-charger.html

And fit a battery monitor so I can see whats going on.

So when I'm travelling I will be getting 53 amps with the potential to add up to 26 amps so a potential max of 79amps or 0.18c

any thoughts?

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[Lenny HB]

Replace the existing solar and pwm regulator with 445amps and mppt regulator 26amps max

I assume you mean a 430 watt regulator like Votronic 430 MPP.

battery to battery
https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en...e-intelligent-battery-to-battery-charger.html

And fit a battery monitor so I can see whats going on.

So when I'm travelling I will be getting 53 amps with the potential to add up to 26 amps so a potential max of 79amps or 0.18c

That B2B is only 25 amp output at 12v.

 

[jongood]

I assume you mean a 430 watt regulator like Votronic 430 MPP.

Sorry Lenny it wasnt very clear. replace my existing old solar panels with 2 new ones totalling 445 amps, and probably through 2x mppt regs so leaving a bit of future expansion room

That B2B is only 25 amp output at 12v.

I'm planning on retaining the existing 12volt alternator setup and using them side by side so 28amps + 25 amps = 53 amps

 

[funflair]

Are you/we putting new solar panels on Jon or are you calling the old ones OK and you mean what Lenny says, again as Lenny says 25A from the 24v alternator is not a lot but yes I understand that you will add the 12v alternator to this plus whatever the solar can make on the road so could be a plan
.

 

[jongood]

Are you/we putting new solar panels on Jon or are you calling the old ones OK and you mean what Lenny says, again as Lenny says 25A from the 24v alternator is not a lot but yes I understand that you will add the 12v alternator to this plus whatever the solar can make on the road so could be a plan
.

Hi Martin

I'm fairly certain the existing solars are at least 15 years old, so in the space where they are I can fit a 270w and a 175w so double the capacity.

 

[andy63]

So when I'm travelling I will be getting 53 amps with the potential to add up to 26 amps so a potential max of 79amps or 0.18c

any thoughts?

I think you are been a tad hopeful there jon..
Very unlikely to work out quite like that..
Multiple charging sources seldom work that way.. if your batteries are very low you may get an initial high input but ill bet it will tail off very quickly and you will get one source dominant..the others seeing a rising voltage on the battery bank and contributing very little or nothing..
You will only know when you have tried it and monitored it but those would be my thoughts..
Usually my mains charger was the dominant source if on ehu..solar contributes nothing when on mains.. matters not how much you have on the roof..
Battery to battery obviously when on the move..
And solar when there are no other sources in play..
Andy..

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