Heating Motorhome over winter parked up

[ozzyhufc]

Just a quick one again, while van is parked up over winter , what is the cheapest way to keep motorhome warm in rear, I have run the electric to van for heating to be on 24/7 but it’s taking a lot of electricity
How long would a 6kg gas bottle last if heating left on continuously , would that be cheaper or is there a better way.

Thanks.

 

[Reallyretired]

I have a maxxaire fan vent and leave it open but turned off in storage. It doesn't let any rain in even in a downpour and gives extra ventilation.
I can't think who would give advice to tape up vents totally counterproductive.

 

[nicholsong]

If you heat up the air in a confined space and the walls or other surfaces are cooler (inside cupboards, under beds etc) then there is a chance that the moisture in the warm air will settle on the cooler surface and cause condensation.

As an example, in the aircraft c0ckpit we used to get ice on the inside of the metal window frames, which of course were contiguous inside and out. The inside of the aircraft was warm but the window frames transmitted the outside temperature at 35,000' of -50C to the inside of the frame, thus condensation in ice form.

 

[LithiumConvert]

Never heat ours and leave the beds made up, never had any problems.

I agree that is a choice.

But, to say, as others have said, that you have to turn the heat off because of condensation, is nonsense.
Unless there is a leak.

We leave ours on, set fo 7 to 10 degrees usually, and have also never had any problems. (with gas or electric)
With no special attention to ventilation.

 

[oldiesontour]

I agree that is a choice.

But, to say, as others have said, that you have to turn the heat off because of condensation, is nonsense.
Unless there is a leak.

We leave ours on, set fo 7 to 10 degrees usually, and have also never had any problems. (with gas or electric)
With no special attention to ventilation.

Why ? Seems an expensive way of achieving the same outcome as a bit of free background ventilation ?

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[DDJC]

I agree that is a choice.

But, to say, as others have said, that you have to turn the heat off because of condensation, is nonsense.
Unless there is a leak.

We leave ours on, set fo 7 to 10 degrees usually, and have also never had any problems. (with gas or electric)
With no special attention to ventilation.

Yep me too. After I have fully winterised it, I put the heating on a bit when it is very cold.

We have an EHU socket on the side of the house and when the temp dips below freezing, I turn on the warm air to 8 degrees. Only elec, not gas. Whenever the outside temp warms up, I turn it off.

Also, we use the bus as another bedroom over Christmas, so for those few days it is whacked up to 16 - 17 degrees.

Every hab check comes back as dry as a bone.

 

[headlight]

Not wanting to ask a silly question, but by "Good ventilation" which has been mentioned a few times, what exactly do you mean by this? Leaving vents and/or a window open? I saw on another guide, on here, that all vents should be taped over... But should you do that with the vents and then maybe crack a window open a bit?

I like the mini fan on a wee solar idea.. that the user "Headlight" mentioned...Would something like that constitute as good ventilation?



Oh, and if someone could tell me how to hyperlink a users name I would appreciate that too! Feel like a right dummy not being able to find where to do it.

I have 3 " gas drop vents" in the floor, cooker, fridge and boiler/heating plus my Heki and skylight are not sealed plus dash vents.
That plus 2 fans gives good ventilation I assume.

 

[Tombola]

I agree that is a choice.

But, to say, as others have said, that you have to turn the heat off because of condensation, is nonsense.
Unless there is a leak.

We leave ours on, set fo 7 to 10 degrees usually, and have also never had any problems. (with gas or electric)
With no special attention to ventilation.

Save yourself a few quid.
Do what hundreds of dealers do on forecourts ,and thousands more owners leave em cold and vented.
Unless of course you are lazy like me and dont want to drain down in freezing temps if Im gonna use the van in a couple.days, which I do regularly over winter

 

[robnchris]

We go aound this every winter.

Heat does not cause condensation.

If you have condensation in a vehicle it is caused because because there is water in there. Often caused by showers and kettles, but also by wet clothes brought in when it is raining. If none of those apply, then an investigation is called for, to see where the leak is!

To have condensation, you need to have water. Heat, alone, will do no harm.

Of course, ventilation will not do any harm.

"To have condensation, you need to have water"

This is obviously not a true statement, warmer air on a cold surface equals condensation, that's basic physics.
Breath onto a cold mirror and what do you get.....

Best advice has been stated, I would add remove all soft furnishing and open all cupboards and internal doors so air can circulate around the motorhome.

 

[LithiumConvert]

Breath onto a cold mirror and what do you get.....

You get condensation because your breath contains very high levels of water.

Where does that come from? We humans are about 60% water.
A percentage a huge amount higher than even a motorhome with a severe damp problem

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[mikash]

"To have condensation, you need to have water"

This is obviously not a true statement, warmer air on a cold surface equals condensation, that's basic physics.
Breath onto a cold mirror and what do you get.....

Best advice has been stated, I would add remove all soft furnishing and open all cupboards and internal doors so air can circulate around the motorhome.

No, that is actually quite correct. If there is no water vapour in the air (like in your breath is) there will be no condensation, no matter how cold surfaces there are around. When you breath on a mirror, you are exhaling air that is 34-35c and typically about 80% relative humidity. The water vapour in your breath hitting the 15c cooler room temperature mirror becomes oversatured as it cools and condenses. You can blow as much warm but dry air on a freezing cold mirror as you want without getting any condensation ever. There's nothing to condense. Water doesn't appear from thin air, even if it looks like that, it has to be in he air already

 

[Mr Colpot]

We use our motorhome most days we can during the winter so don't drain down. When at home I leave the heating on at 10 degrees on 1kw.

Interesting about the fridge vents should be isolated from the inside though as I am sure mine aren't as there is cold air coming in from under the fridge (job for today methinks)

 

[Shrimp]

This has been asked before and it seems silly to heat an empty vehicle.
Chap near us an a long-term campsite has just got himself a Harley, put together a ‘plastic’ shed for it and put a heater in with it!!!
That will do it good……not!

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

This has been asked before and it seems silly to heat an empty vehicle.
Chap near us an a long-term campsite has just got himself a Harley, put together a ‘plastic’ shed for it and put a heater in with it!!!
That will do it good……not!

Hardley any good?
Mike.

Exactly, I have this discussion with management all the time but regularly "advised" by management that MHOME is damp. A balance is eventually achieved a day or two before we go on a trip when I have to give way to management's points of view.

Surrender monkey I would as well!!
Mike.

 

[Burge]

Yep me too. After I have fully winterised it, I put the heating on a bit when it is very cold.

We have an EHU socket on the side of the house and when the temp dips below freezing, I turn on the warm air to 8 degrees. Only elec, not gas. Whenever the outside temp warms up, I turn it off.

Also, we use the bus as another bedroom over Christmas, so for those few days it is whacked up to 16 - 17 degrees.

Every hab check comes back as dry as a bone.

May I ask what time of the Year do you have your Hab Check done ???

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[Lenny HB]

Interesting about the fridge vents should be isolated from the inside though as I am sure mine aren't as there is cold air coming in from under the fridge (job for today methinks)

If it's a 3 way fridge i.e. has gas, that is dangerous and it has not been installed correctly. If the fridge flame is not burning correctly there is a chance of getting carbon monoxide in the van.

 

[DDJC]

May I ask what time of the Year do you have your Hab Check done ???

March/April

 

[headlight]

If it's a 3 way fridge i.e. has gas, that is dangerous and it has not been installed correctly. If the fridge flame is not burning correctly there is a chance of getting carbon monoxide in the van.

Would the cold air coming from under the fridge not be coming from a gas drop vent in the floor under the fridge ?

 

[mikash]

If it's a 3 way fridge i.e. has gas, that is dangerous and it has not been installed correctly. If the fridge flame is not burning correctly there is a chance of getting carbon monoxide in the van.

Given the recent studies on gas burners routinely filling apartments with unhealthy levels of NO2 I think a leaky gas fridge is not doing your lungs any favours in the long term even if you don't succumb to acute carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[Soycd]

Just a quick one again, while van is parked up over winter , what is the cheapest way to keep motorhome warm in rear, I have run the electric to van for heating to be on 24/7 but it’s taking a lot of electricity
How long would a 6kg gas bottle last if heating left on continuously , would that be cheaper or is there a better way.

Thanks.

I never have the heat on unless I'm using the van. I'll stick it on if I'm going to do any work/mods inside. I've always found that the dashboard vents are sufficient ventilation. Then again I don't 'park up' over winter, as I use the van at least once a week. Drain all the water systems etc. but I like to keep it as a vehicle I can use. If you are worried about moisture then maybe stick one of those small dehumidifier things in and see how much moisture that absorbs?

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[Lenny HB]

Would the cold air coming from under the fridge not be coming from a gas drop vent in the floor under the fridge ?

That would be in the area behind the fridge, sealed from the hab area.

 

[Mark1965]

Just a quick one again, while van is parked up over winter , what is the cheapest way to keep motorhome warm in rear, I have run the electric to van for heating to be on 24/7 but it’s taking a lot of electricity
How long would a 6kg gas bottle last if heating left on continuously , would that be cheaper or is there a better way.

Thanks.

Its probably not best to leave the heating on constant as it will send your meter spinning... And Gas will be used like no tomorrow.
What I have is a low consumption mains power Dehumidifier. Mine has a laundry mode so we use it in a spare room to dry washing etc.
I leave this in my Ducato PVC and it gently warms and also removes the dampness etc. Once or twice a week I empty the water collection tank.
It doesn't use much electric as it's not heating up..
Worth a look on Amazon or Argos etc..

 

[Lenny HB]

Its probably not best to leave the heating on constant as it will send your meter spinning... And Gas will be used like no tomorrow.
What I have is a low consumption mains power Dehumidifier. Mine has a laundry mode so we use it in a spare room to dry washing etc.
I leave this in my Ducato PVC and it gently warms and also removes the dampness etc. Once or twice a week I empty the water collection tank.
It doesn't use much electric as it's not heating up..
Worth a look on Amazon or Argos etc..

Pointless unless you seal all the vents in the van.

 

[oldiesontour]

Its probably not best to leave the heating on constant as it will send your meter spinning... And Gas will be used like no tomorrow.
What I have is a low consumption mains power Dehumidifier. Mine has a laundry mode so we use it in a spare room to dry washing etc.
I leave this in my Ducato PVC and it gently warms and also removes the dampness etc. Once or twice a week I empty the water collection tank.
It doesn't use much electric as it's not heating up..
Worth a look on Amazon or Argos etc..

This doesn't work in practice in my opinion ,unless your van is air tight....you are effectively trying to remove moisture from all the ever changing air in the van with a big enough unit you may considerably reduce humidity levels ...with a tiny unit you are removing some moisture which is being replaced from outside the van... probably won't do any harm .. apart from to your pocket,but highly unlikely it's actually lowering the actual moisture content of the air in the van unless maybe you have damp (water) entering the van from a body leak

 

[Apacheman]

Follow all the advice to drain down as fully as possible and leave heating off. We also use the water absorb crystals. Having done all that I got a message about 5 days into the last cold spell from Sargeant tracking for a frost alert informing me there was water in my tanks? Can only relate to the waste as even when fully emptied it often shows 25% full. A bit of crap in the float sensor??

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[Clive Beeza]

6 kgs won’t last long on constant heating but is of course dependent on what temperature it will be set at.

Don’t know where you are but you could cause a lot of condensation, I just drain down for the colder months ( if not in use ) and ventilate the van for a few hours on nice days.

Tried a cover and gentle heat on separate occasions and just created condensation and mould. Stopped that many years ago now.

I do have it hooked up on a timer to keep batteries upto scratch.

I do exactly the same as Phil D.

6 kgs won’t last long on constant heating but is of course dependent on what temperature it will be set at.

Don’t know where you are but you could cause a lot of condensation, I just drain down for the colder months ( if not in use ) and ventilate the van for a few hours on nice days.

Tried a cover and gentle heat on separate occasions and just created condensation and mould. Stopped that many years ago now.

I do have it hooked up on a timer to keep batteries upto scratch.

6 kgs won’t last long on constant heating but is of course dependent on what temperature it will be set at.

Don’t know where you are but you could cause a lot of condensation, I just drain down for the colder months ( if not in use ) and ventilate the van for a few hours on nice days.

Tried a cover and gentle heat on separate occasions and just created condensation and mould. Stopped that many years ago now.

I do have it hooked up on a timer to keep batteries upto scratch.

 

[ozzyhufc]

Thanks everyone for your reply’s, so reading through a lot of people say it’s ok to have no heating which is fine, I just want to keep my van warm throughout winter when parked up….and I forgot to mention I spoke with Bailey and the heating system people Alde, Ref winter park up etc, and they said it’s great if you can keep it plugged in over winter and run it at say 10 degrees… 24/7 with all drawers and doors open to allow heat to circulate… it has been great lovely and warm, throughout and no condensation anywhere.
I just wanted to see what people thought and any suggestions and cost etc.

Thank you

 

[oldiesontour]

Follow all the advice to drain down as fully as possible and leave heating off. We also use the water absorb crystals. Having done all that I got a message about 5 days into the last cold spell from Sargeant tracking for a frost alert informing me there was water in my tanks? Can only relate to the waste as even when fully emptied it often shows 25% full. A bit of crap in the float sensor??

The crystal moisture absorbing gubbins is also a waste of money and effort. see above posts.

 

[robnchris]

No, that is actually quite correct. If there is no water vapour in the air (like in your breath is) there will be no condensation, no matter how cold surfaces there are around. When you breath on a mirror, you are exhaling air that is 34-35c and typically about 80% relative humidity. The water vapour in your breath hitting the 15c cooler room temperature mirror becomes oversatured as it cools and condenses. You can blow as much warm but dry air on a freezing cold mirror as you want without getting any condensation ever. There's nothing to condense. Water doesn't appear from thin air, even if it looks like that, it has to be in he air already

We are talking about humidity, we live in the northern hemisphere the air around us holds moisture (Water Vapour), quite a lot of moisture in the summer, less in the winter because cold air holds less than warm air, sure if you live in arid conditions what you say is true but we don't live in such conditions.
The mirror scenario I described was just to show how condensation forms, leave some spanners or mild steel in an unheated garage or garden shed and they will go rusty, how do you think that happens, there isn't bowls of water lying around so where does the moisture come from?
What forms on the inside of you car windows when left outside during a frost, that would be condensation.

 

[mikash]

This doesn't work in practice in my opinion ,unless your van is air tight....you are effectively trying to remove moisture from all the ever changing air in the van with a big enough unit you may considerably reduce humidity levels ...with a tiny unit you are removing some moisture which is being replaced from outside the van... probably won't do any harm .. apart from to your pocket,but highly unlikely it's actually lowering the actual moisture content of the air in the van unless maybe you have damp (water) entering the van from a body leak

You don't really need to remove that much water vapour from the air inside the van to keep the relative humidity noticeably lower than outside. 0c air is saturated at about 5 grams of water / cubic meter. Passive ventilation in a van in winter storage I doubt is much more than 10 cubic meters / hour so reducing the inside relative humidity significantly with a humidifier is quite possible I think. Removing few dl water / day would already be quite significant.
The whole other matter is that there might not be that much benefit since the passive ventilation alone will keep the van dry enough.

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[oldiesontour]

You don't really need to remove that much water vapour from the air inside the van to keep the relative humidity noticeably lower than outside. 0c air is saturated at about 5 grams of water / cubic meter. Passive ventilation in a van in winter storage I doubt is much more than 10 cubic meters / hour so reducing the inside relative humidity significantly with a humidifier is quite possible I think. Removing few dl water / day would already be quite significant.
The whole other matter is that there might not be that much benefit since the passive ventilation alone will keep the van dry enough.

I would not be so sure about the air change rate Our self built property came in well below current building regs of 10 air changes per hour( this is with all deliberate ventilation sealed) after some very careful construction and attention to detail but still managed 4.1 air changes per HR at 50pa.A van is full of holes and subject to external wind/breeze and both internal and external thermal activity.
But I think the general consensus would appear to agree that neither low heat or dehumidifier activity are likely to achieve any more than good ventilation.... However I doubt the van heaters will alter their habits and nor will the ventilators or dehumidifiers,so with the exception of the few undecided like the op no change.