Have you used an LPG generator?

[eddie]

Hi Dafydd, B2B or A2B both have their uses, frankly I would go for a B2B I suspect in the senario we describe you would be able to tell any difference in performance, but the B2B is cheaper to install.

Don't be dictated to, by the manufacturers spec available. It is more important to get the vehicle and then use specialists to carry out the work you want. I would imagine that it is cheaper this way as well.

Many people get duped into paying exorbitant prices for generators as an example, but then the generator is fitted by the dealer. if this is discovered there's always an excuse why the dealer had to do it. However the reality is that the dealer will make a fortune installing at factory prices.

To give you an example The Dometic TEC29 petrol generator retails at £4280 plus installation. Now that price includes the trade discount for the seller. I have seen prices as high as £8000 for the TEC29 to be factory installed, so there is a real incentive for the dealer to install it and charge that kind of money

Recently some one who is a good friend of mine was buying a high end German van and showed me the list of things that he wanted "factory" installed. Over a beer I was laughing telling him that I would bet him that a number of the "options" would end up being dealer fit. He showed me a list of the break down.

I suggested to him the next day that he contact the UK importers, and ask for confirmation of the list and then tell them that you've decided to collect the van from the manufacturer (which is an option)

The list soon changed!

 

[Dafydd]

@eddievanbitz
Thanks Eddie. From what I've read, including here, I've come to the same conclusion about ordering options.
Besides the Merc options (the higher rated alternator as per this thread), I think that most of them are installed by the constructor, in the case of La Strada. The two relevant ones are their optional 100w solar and an Efoy. I don't however know this for a fact.

Assuming that these would not in fact be fitted by the UK dealer (Elite) I was of the attitude that it would be better if things that involve wiring etc were fitted at the construction stage ie (per my thinking) that an aftersales fitter such as yourself would have to go removing lining and ducting to replace or install.
Is it, in reality, not such a big deal?

The points you've made about equipment (and its wiring) being specced for "average" motorhomer use as opposed to more intensive, off-site and winter usage are all well made (comments of yours on other threads too). Ditto how vans are built with builders and deliveries etc in mind.

I'm now thinking of only the uprated alternator on the order and look to aftersales for batteries, solar, back-up power (Efoy or whatever) options in combination with things like a B2B and appropriate wiring gauge, inverter& mains charger, control/regulator components and monitor panels.
If it actually makes little or no difference as to whether things are wired in at the constructor stage or done after sales then I will happily re-adjust my attitude. I could then look to a custom designed set-up with appropriate components (and suitable wiring) to my planned usage.
Is that the way you'd suggest I look at it?

As to the back up power: I might well be back to the Efoy, expensive though it is and needing spare fuel cartridges to be carried.
I want something built in. The Dometic diesel units you suggested are too big for my compact van. Nobody seems to be singing the praises of the LPG.
Or I don't bother at all and live with the (B2B) habit of running the engine for an hour and a half every two days that I'm staying in the same place without hook-up.... and a year later I will know if I really need that back-up.

Thanks a mill for taking the time.

 

[eddie]

I would with the information that you've supplied and the motorhome coverter chosen go for a factory fitted uprated alternator, then once I had the van, reserach the market and ensure that I bought the best option on solar B2B ( to take advantage of the alternator)

Remember that a buyers job within a company isn't to pay as much as they can for the best product, but to pay as little for a product that will meet the spec. With factory fitted solar panels for example we normally don't expect to see a top performing regulator, and the difference can be quiet dramatic

Good luck

 

[Dafydd]

@eddievanbitz
Cheers, that's what I'll do so. I'll be in touch when it's delivered.

 

[Judge Mental]

No one sings the praises of lpg geennys simply because petrol far more common. Plus how much lpg are you prepared to carry....

If you in the middle of nowhere noise not such an issue for charging. What about water.....all this kit great but it's all weight! and doubt you have a practical payload for long periods of off grid camping. Can nova be upgraded?

Tech is all very well, I favour a simple approach, carry what's necessary, started the outdoor life as a boy scout cooking bread on a stick over open fire, cooking roast beef dinner in a biscuit tin buried in the ground for heavens sake

Nova designed for rich Germans..I would be looking at semi expedition campers, fit for purpose with better payloads....

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[Yorkcov]

A fixed underslung gas tank AND an external BBQ point to which a separate bottle could be added as an extend-a-stay would work allowing you to use local bottles and regulator when available.

Can I just check on the details of this Wildman as It might solve my problems for Moroco. Can I just get a local cylinder and connect to the BBQ point? Would it matter if there was still some gas in the underslung tank or would I need to turn that off? Would I need a regulator for the local bottle - doesn't the supply to the BBQ point already go through the regulator?

Thanks

Alan

 

[Dafydd]

@Judgemental
I don't need an expedition van, the roughest surface I'll be on will be a Romanian or Moroccan B road or forest tracks in Finland. I also want to be able to cruise motorways in comfort for thousands of miles. In fact the vast majority of my driving will be on asphalt, just with a bumpy track at the destination.
I want a winterised, lhd van around 6.5 m (for ease of town parking and manoeuvrability) with a garage. Traveling almost always solo a single rear transverse bed will be fine and create a bit more living space. GVW up to 3.88t.
The Nova ticks so many boxes and the habitation construction quality is very highly recommended.

There are very, very few winterised compact vans.
I could go for something like a Carthago Compactline 138, and I haven't ruled it out. Besides that model I can't think of many other alternatives and the Carthago will be in the same price bracket. The only thing that distinguishes the la Strada from the small Carthago A-Class is that it is more discrete, looking less obviously like a motorhome from a distance.

That's my thinking from a couple of years of browsing the net waiting for the Irish mortgage market to wake from the dead. I may not be particularly rich by 1st world standards nor German but the Nova fits the bill.

(btw: I did read the thread on Mercedes and my conclusion is that the current Sprinter is no worse for reliability than the Ducato even if one may argue that it's no better)

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Yorkcov]

Now you see why a B2B has to be the option. Turn on engine - run for 20 / 30 minutes ( tick over s fine ) and batteries are FULLY charged. Simples.........

I agree B to B chargers are good Don, but not that good! Mine takes about 2 hours driving to get my 2 110Ah batteries from about 55% to 90% charge. Also I understand you shouldn't run a modern diesel on tickover as it is likely to damage the particulate filter.

Alan

 

[eddie]

I agree B to B chargers are good Don, but not that good! Mine takes about 2 hours driving to get my 2 110Ah batteries from about 55% to 90% charge. Also I understand you shouldn't run a modern diesel on tickover as it is likely to damage the particulate filter.

Alan

Hi Alan, there are varying sizes of B2B running from 30 amps all the way up to 120 amp output. In the same way that different vehicles have different output alternators.

Battery layout and installation plays a big part as well.

 

[Don Quixote]

I agree B to B chargers are good Don, but not that good! Mine takes about 2 hours driving to get my 2 110Ah batteries from about 55% to 90% charge. Also I understand you shouldn't run a modern diesel on tickover as it is likely to damage the particulate filter.

Alan

Alan, you failed to say what amps your b2B is supplying to the batteries. The one I have fitted is 50amps: Broken Link Removed.
I have never seen 50 amps yet, but when off grid for 3/4 and then moving to next location I have seen up to 37 amps for a short period on the 2 x 11o amp batteries. As for running on "tick over" as the is no proof what so ever that it will or will not damage the engine I'm in the school use it. Taxis idle for hours on cold nights and seem to run forever. HGV's idle for hours and run forever, buses idle for hours and still work As I have stated these are my finding and my way to run my MH and each person has there way of running theirs.

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[Wildman]

Can I just check on the details of this Wildman as It might solve my problems for Moroco. Can I just get a local cylinder and connect to the BBQ point? Would it matter if there was still some gas in the underslung tank or would I need to turn that off? Would I need a regulator for the local bottle - doesn't the supply to the BBQ point already go through the regulator?

Thanks

Alan

you can connect a local bottle AND regulator via the BBQ point. The supply from the BBQ has passed through the regulator to feed the BBQ, going the other way into the system you are in need of a separate regulator or you would pass high pressure gas to a low pressure area. It would not matter if there was still gas in the underslung tank though presumably you would only connect it when the main tank was empty and switched off. Make sure you carry a pigtail with appropriate connector and clips ready to connect to the new regulator.

 

[Judge Mental]

Don, Whatever....... do what you want, but evidence pretty clear that tick over from cold is harmful. Look at the other posts re bore glazing for heavens sake.....why risk it when a cheap light genny does the job

Dafydd , the cathargo is another soft camper, to low IMO, That's why I said a semi expedition...I would look around.
whats the payload on a nova, size of water tanks etc..the fact that it has no room for second battery next to single leisure battery's to me means it's not that practical.

I used to have 4x4 demountable campers, have slept in a car parks in Sweden surrounded by 6 foot snow drifts at -25. Snug as a bug in a rug with Alde heating and underfloor heating. Camped on beaches...whatever, with no fear of getting stuck, with height to travel any track, however poor. Ok not for you but stil think your choice not tough or practical enough.

 

[Yorkcov]

Alan, you failed to say what amps your b2B is supplying to the batteries. The one I have fitted is 50amps: Broken Link Removed.
I have never seen 50 amps yet, but when off grid for 3/4 and then moving to next location I have seen up to 37 amps for a short period on the 2 x 11o amp batteries. As for running on "tick over" as the is no proof what so ever that it will or will not damage the engine I'm in the school use it. Taxis idle for hours on cold nights and seem to run forever. HGV's idle for hours and run forever, buses idle for hours and still work As I have stated these are my finding and my way to run my MH and each person has there way of running theirs.

Don - I also have the Sterling 50 Amp charger (actually 45Amps). It is correctly installed. I have seldom seen it give out more than 20 Amps, however I don't let my batteries get very low. Never below 50%. Once they get up to about 90% the charge from the Sterling drops to about 5A. It takes a lot of driving to get it up to 100%.
As far as idling the engine I am no expert however I understand the problem arises with Euro 5 engines. For more info : http://tinyurl.com/382vzg

Alan

 

[Wildman]

it would appear that running an engine on tick over is only bad when doing so from cold as there is insufficient oil pressure to get everything fully oiled up once warm no problem, anyone watching ice road truckers will know they often leave engines running 24/7 to prevent them getting too cold to start.

 

[Yorkcov]

you can connect a local bottle AND regulator via the BBQ point. The supply from the BBQ has passed through the regulator to feed the BBQ, going the other way into the system you are in need of a separate regulator or you would pass high pressure gas to a low pressure area. It would not matter if there was still gas in the underslung tank though presumably you would only connect it when the main tank was empty and switched off. Make sure you carry a pigtail with appropriate connector and clips ready to connect to the new regulator.

Thanks Wildman

Alan

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[Don Quixote]

Don - I also have the Sterling 50 Amp charger (actually 45Amps). It is correctly installed. I have seldom seen it give out more than 20 Amps, however I don't let my batteries get very low. Never below 50%. Once they get up to about 90% the charge from the Sterling drops to about 5A. It takes a lot of driving to get it up to 100%.
As far as idling the engine I am no expert however I understand the problem arises with Euro 5 engines. For more info : http://tinyurl.com/382vzg

Alan

Firstly Alan, the name is John as per the signature at the bottom of every post I make, secondly I too do not allow batteries before 50% well really 55%, however not sure why your stops at 5amps I drive for about 2 hours to next location in most cases and I have seen the amps go down to 1.5 apps or less on my Victron 600. I have also run it on "tick over" to recharge batteries if the alarm sounds at 55% ( my settings ) discharge and after about 40 minutes the victron is reading between 5 amps and 2 amps. I guess it is how it is installed from one MH to another I have used 45-85amp - 40 mm sq ( really thick copper cable ) including earthing. None the less your / mine work.

 

[Judge Mental]

I would recommend a visit to Dusseldorf show

 

[CazPaul]

Don - I also have the Sterling 50 Amp charger (actually 45Amps). It is correctly installed. I have seldom seen it give out more than 20 Amps, however I don't let my batteries get very low. Never below 50%. Once they get up to about 90% the charge from the Sterling drops to about 5A. It takes a lot of driving to get it up to 100%.
As far as idling the engine I am no expert however I understand the problem arises with Euro 5 engines. For more info : http://tinyurl.com/382vzg

Alan

With our CTEK dual 20amp B2B when the batteries are at 90% remaining the unit puts in around 10amps, according to our Victron monitor.

Paul.