Greater Manchester Clean Air Plans - Charging Motorhomes

[PaulyP]

You can't seriously be saying that the level of pollution wouldn't make any difference to a child with existing breathing difficulties. I have a vested interest, having COPD to the extent I have just been prescribed oxygen. For some time now I can tell if the surrounding air is polluted to the extent that it effects my breathing. People seem to be saying that their right to drive what they want where they want should supersede the rights of those with respiratory problems to live as normal a life as possible. My grandsons live very close to a major southern approach to Greater London, which is busy 12/14 hours a day. I frequently notice fume laden air there to the extent that I occasionally wore a mask prior to covid.
I am sympathetic to owners of vehicles which are classed as high polluting, but there are solutions, including storage outside a CAZ

Outside of the greater Manchester caz could be well over fifty miles away.
Then all you would be doing is using the pollution making vehicles elsewhere, causing problems for others. The caz is all about making money, by charging people it will not make the air clean, if they were serious about it they would ban the bad vehicles, but no as long as you pay you can use them.
As the motorways are not included you can drive a very polluting vehicle through the caz area as long as you don’t leave the motorway, but if your a foreign registered hgv’s you can go anywhere you like as they are exempt, same as council owned vehicles, no matter how bad they may be they are exempt. It’s just a complete farce.

 

[jongood]

You can't seriously be saying that the level of pollution wouldn't make any difference to a child with existing breathing difficulties. I have a vested interest, having COPD to the extent I have just been prescribed oxygen. For some time now I can tell if the surrounding air is polluted to the extent that it effects my breathing. People seem to be saying that their right to drive what they want where they want should supersede the rights of those with respiratory problems to live as normal a life as possible. My grandsons live very close to a major southern approach to Greater London, which is busy 12/14 hours a day. I frequently notice fume laden air there to the extent that I occasionally wore a mask prior to covid.
I am sympathetic to owners of vehicles which are classed as high polluting, but there are solutions, including storage outside a CAZ

No that wasn't what I said.

 

[jongood]

You can't seriously be saying that the level of pollution wouldn't make any difference to a child with existing breathing difficulties. I have a vested interest, having COPD to the extent I have just been prescribed oxygen. For some time now I can tell if the surrounding air is polluted to the extent that it effects my breathing. People seem to be saying that their right to drive what they want where they want should supersede the rights of those with respiratory problems to live as normal a life as possible. My grandsons live very close to a major southern approach to Greater London, which is busy 12/14 hours a day. I frequently notice fume laden air there to the extent that I occasionally wore a mask prior to covid.
I am sympathetic to owners of vehicles which are classed as high polluting, but there are solutions, including storage outside a CAZ

back at a keyboard now so this is what I said:

What I'm not convinced about is that if the surrounding traffic comprised of Euro 6 vehicles instead of Euro 4 or 5, that this outcome would have been any different

Many of the arguments for these things are complete bunkum, whether is be forcing the replacement of very slightly older vehicles, the justification for "renewable" pellet boilers, or ignoring the extra emissions from processing "recyclables". yes we do need to take action but let them at least be sensible.

 

[Garry - June]

Do people not think they are being played here.... its similar to the age old proven tactic of "divide and conquer".... put something out there so ridiculously severe that the masses rise up and argue about it amongst themselves.... sit back and wait for a while..... then announce after a while that after a renegotiation that a new "less austere" scheme will be brought in instead..... people will give a sigh of relief and meekly accept it thinking they are lucky as its much better than was first offered...... not realising until its too late that it is far worse than they actually ever wanted or would have accepted in the first place .. Job done ..

 

[mofurt]

Bit of an about-face on this, probably as Burnham has realised it is poisonous to his political career. Regardless, this should be a relief to many.

Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone: Mayor scraps plans for charges

Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham wants to drop plans for the levy if the government agrees.

www.bbc.co.uk

Plans to charge motorists in Greater Manchester in a bid to clean up pollution will be dropped if the government agrees, Andy Burnham has said.
The region's mayor has announced new proposals for a zone free of charges, subject to government approval.
It will include incentives for older and less economical vehicles to be eligible for grants to replace them.
Mr Burnham said the authority was "going into a negotiation".
"The red line is we will not accept a charging Clean Air Zone in Greater Manchester," he said.
"And if that is what the government wants, it will have to impose it."

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[Rumour and Innuendo]

Bit of an about-face on this, probably as Burnham has realised it is poisonous to his political career. Regardless, this should be a relief to many.

Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone: Mayor scraps plans for charges

Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham wants to drop plans for the levy if the government agrees.

www.bbc.co.uk

Burnham had it forced on him by the Government! That is why he said this! "

"The red line is we will not accept a charging Clean Air Zone in Greater Manchester," he said.
"And if that is what the government wants, it will have to impose it.""

It was a government order that required the Zone.

 

[PaulyP]

Bit of an about-face on this, probably as Burnham has realised it is poisonous to his political career. Regardless, this should be a relief to many.

Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone: Mayor scraps plans for charges

Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham wants to drop plans for the levy if the government agrees.

www.bbc.co.uk

He still wants charges, he has submitted plans hoping the government will say they don’t work then he can come back with “ not my fault, they made me do it” they guy is a snake and doesn’t know the meaning of truthful, he’s only, out to further his political career, after the leadership of the Labour Party. Wouldn’t trust him one inch.
Oh and by the way it’s not been scrapped voluntary by him, it’s the uproar it’s caused that has caused the changes.

 

[Rumour and Innuendo]

He still wants charges, he has submitted plans hoping the government will say they don’t work then he can come back with “ not my fault, they made me do it” they guy is a snake and doesn’t know the meaning of truthful, he’s only, out to further his political career, after the leadership of the Labour Party. Wouldn’t trust him one inch.
Oh and by the way it’s not been scrapped voluntary by him, it’s the uproar it’s caused that has caused the changes.

So, he has listened? But I would like to know how you know what he is thinking! Do you know him? Are you part of his Council? If not, what you typed is pure speculation based on bias. The zone may well be imposed, but claiming to know what someone is thinking is not an argument winner!

 

[jongood]

I wonder how much energy was used in producing and erecting all these signs that now have to come down

 

[Ninjabob]

I wonder how much energy was used in producing and erecting all these signs that now have to come down

Not as much as Khan spent (over 100 million) on installing cameras all around the North & South Circular Roads only to decide months later that he would like to try and balance the books by an extension to Greater London (M25 effectively). These Mayor's have way too much power IMHO - just look at Khan's latest "legalise cannabis in London" consultation. This is legislation that Central Government in Westminster alone should decide upon.

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[Redken]

I tried to apply for a grant to upgrade my euro4 Motorhome but they said that Motorhomes were excluded. Interestingly when the emissions were tested for the mot, they were within the tolerances for euro6.
I agree with others, Burnham is not to be trusted as he is lying about this and has got the entire Labour council to lie also. I am a Labour Party member and am appalled by what is going on. Whilst this plays out they are still blocking off roads and putting unused cycle lanes on busy roads to cause congestion so that they can eventually go ahead with the caz .

 

[PaulyP]

I tried to apply for a grant to upgrade my euro4 Motorhome but they said that Motorhomes were excluded. Interestingly when the emissions were tested for the mot, they were within the tolerances for euro6.
I agree with others, Burnham is not to be trusted as he is lying about this and has got the entire Labour council to lie also. I am a Labour Party member and am appalled by what is going on. Whilst this plays out they are still blocking off roads and putting unused cycle lanes on busy roads to cause congestion so that they can eventually go ahead with the caz .

Totally agree with you, voted labour for 50 years, never again, he says that the government are not doing enough for people suffering under the recent economic problems then wants to hit those very same people with fines for using their vehicles to earn a living, guy hasn’t got a clue of real life.

 

[POH]

I tried to apply for a grant to upgrade my euro4 Motorhome but they said that Motorhomes were excluded. Interestingly when the emissions were tested for the mot, they were within the tolerances for euro6.
I agree with others, Burnham is not to be trusted as he is lying about this and has got the entire Labour council to lie also. I am a Labour Party member and am appalled by what is going on. Whilst this plays out they are still blocking off roads and putting unused cycle lanes on busy roads to cause congestion so that they can eventually go ahead with the caz .

Chester Rd to name but one complet waste of money .

 

[Barryh]

I wonder how much energy was used in producing and erecting all these signs that now have to come down

2 lots of signs. The first to tell you that you were in/out of the zone, then the follow up signs saying it was suspended.

 

[pagey]

It's all bo&%#*ks just a money making tax I'm in Germany at the moment and needed to buy a clean air sticker for the van...cost 5 euro for the life of the van try to justify what Burnham and Khan want for just 1 day

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[PaulyP]

Chester Rd to name but one complet waste of money .

I was at the car sales place next to stretford tip waiting for a lift one morning, thousands of cars going past towards Manchester, one lane coned off for cyclist, during the thirty minutes I was waiting one cyclist, really makes sense doesn’t it.

 

[dunnah01]

The GM clean air zone is a legal requirement from central government so not sure why Andy Burnham is taking such a big hit for it

 

[PaulyP]

The GM clean air zone is a legal requirement from central government so not sure why Andy Burnham is taking such a big hit for it

You are right, but government did not stipulate it should be chargeable or to the size of it, Burnham and his labour controlled councils saw the opportunity to make money so they and only them decided to make it the 493 square miles of Greater Manchester and charge non compliant vehicles which, once in, would soon expand to all vehicles. Leeds had the same edict for a caz, spent their government grants on new public transport and no charges to the public. It will eventually spread countrywide unless it’s stopped now.
I live in Greater Manchester and know first hand how this will affect people, Burnham failed with a hospital, put the local police into special measures and has basically failed at everything he does (seems to be how politicians get on).
Burnham wants the leadership of the Labour Party and god forgive that he gets it.

 

[mitzimad]

Not as much as Khan spent (over 100 million) on installing cameras all around the North & South Circular Roads only to decide months later that he would like to try and balance the books by an extension to Greater London (M25 effectively). These Mayor's have way too much power IMHO - just look at Khan's latest "legalise cannabis in London" consultation. This is legislation that Central Government in Westminster alone should decide upon.

kahn is just spouting popularist drivel as you say he has absolutely no say in the matter

 

[Fdhadi]

The GM clean air zone is a legal requirement from central government so not sure why Andy Burnham is taking such a big hit for it

You are correct but only inside the M60
He needed to come up with something to pay for his free buss passes which incidentally cost £10 each.
Do you honestly believe that all GM Transport agreed to give all 16 - 18yr olds free bus rides. No, every council tax payer in G M has to pay for Andy’s free bus passes.
Andy Muppet. It’s a subsidised not a free bus pass.

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[acropolis22]

You are correct but only inside the M60
He needed to come up with something to pay for his free buss passes which incidentally cost £10 each.
Do you honestly believe that all GM Transport agreed to give all 16 - 18yr olds free bus rides. No, every council tax payer in G M has to pay for Andy’s free bus passes.
Andy Muppet. It’s a subsidised not a free bus pass.

Not sure of all the different types of bus pass, but for state pensioners they are free to the user. You can pay £10 per year to add free travel on the trams and trains.

 

[PaulyP]

Not sure of all the different types of bus pass, but for state pensioners they are free to the user. You can pay £10 per year to add free travel on the trams and trains.

As has been stated nothing is for free, it’s paid by somebody somewhere, tax in some form or another. Judging by the state of buses and trains I wouldn’t be using them regularly that’s when they actually turn up.

 

[acropolis22]

As has been stated nothing is for free, it’s paid by somebody somewhere, tax in some form or another. Judging by the state of buses and trains I wouldn’t be using them regularly that’s when they actually turn up.

As I said, free to the user. You quoted £10. Obviously it's all paid for out of taxes.

 

[joe and sue]

Simple solution, Any vehicle registered as "Private" in the taxation class should not be charged,
Or is that too sensible and easy for those that govern us ??

 

[Essgeebee]

A few weeks ago we stayed at a site in Ashwell where we go every few years from Devon. We go from there into Islington and St Pancras cemetery to visit and clean the in-laws' grave. This time it cost us £12.50 because we had to go about 400 yards inside the North Circular. Clean air? Not a bit of it. The air there was just like it ever is... but the air in the vehicle was blue when I found out I had to pay.
Khan, you're nothing but a cheap pick-pocket.

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[Otter Spotter]

The GM clean air zone is a legal requirement from central government so not sure why Andy Burnham is taking such a big hit for it

It was the way he went about trying to implement it without any consideration to thousands of Motorhome owners who live in the catchment area. As usual, like traffic calming measures that slow traffic down creating more pollution, not thought through and tested properly before spending millions.

 

[ivorantony]

A few weeks ago we stayed at a site in Ashwell where we go every few years from Devon. We go from there into Islington and St Pancras cemetery to visit and clean the in-laws' grave. This time it cost us £12.50 because we had to go about 400 yards inside the North Circular. Clean air? Not a bit of it. The air there was just like it ever is... but the air in the vehicle was blue when I found out I had to pay.
Khan, you're nothing but a cheap pick-pocket.

Then you will like it that khan wants to extend the ULEZ out to the M25 by this October

 

[Essgeebee]

I won’t be back in London for a long time. I’m not a good fit being white and straight and a law-abiding taxpayer with no luxury apartment or superyacht.
It’s gone from a joy to visit London to a chore, and an expensive one, in just 10 years.

 

[Fdhadi]

Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone: Plans for city centre charge only - BBC News

The government says CAZ charges should only be in the most polluted area, in Manchester city centre.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[PaulyP]

Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone: Plans for city centre charge only - BBC News

The government says CAZ charges should only be in the most polluted area, in Manchester city centre.

www.bbc.co.uk

No.
Once it’s in, in any form it can be extended bit by bit.
Not required at all.
City centre businesses, night time economy, it will all suffer.

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