They are giving an example not a dictate. We have banned New ICE cars which will reduce our ICE mileage by a big chunk by 2035 whether that is 58% or not is another matter.
Government rules for new EV sales
- Thread starter nicholsong
- Start date
GJH
LIFE MEMBER
- Aug 20, 2007
- 29,456
- 38,829
- Funster No
- 127
- MH
- None, now sold
- Exp
- 2006 to 2022
Thank you for proving my point.
Of course they do have an E Ducato. It weighs 800 kgs more than ice equivalent, the batteries are underneath where tanks would normally be fited, range is around 160miles, painfully slow and restricted to 62 mph to help range
Which is generally absolutely fine for a delivery driver, which makes up a large proportion of their sales.
That it's hopeless for motorhomes doesn't really matter to them because we're a miniscule fraction of their market... and they don't have a feasible solution anyway.
I agree , vans under 3500kgs will be a no no
Very few ev charges sites can take the bigger vehicles
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
I was thinking more that with the weight and poor aerodynamics of a panel van, they need very large batteries to get reasonable range. And motorhomes are like permanently fully loaded vans with parachutes attached. Batteries are currently an awful fit for motorhomes. But there's not much we can do about it.
I would change that to.
Current batteries in vans are not up to the job for motorhomes. But give it time.
Here is the thing. There is a limited supply of batteries currently. So the manufacturers would rather make 2 vans with 100KWh batteries and 150 mile range. Than 1 van with 200KWh battery with 300 mile range.
Not only is there more profit in 2 vans, but it makes their figures look better for regulatory and market reasons. The government will shortly require manufacturers to supply x% of vehicles as zero emission.
Once battery tech takes a step forward and there is plenty in the pipeline and supply constraints ease (may take a while). Then we will start seeing vans with range and capabilities more suited to motorhomes.
I think the new motorhomes based on this tech will be fantastic if they can integrate the vehicle battery with the leisure side. Imagine having a 5KW inverter connected to a 200Kwh battery. No gas needed.
You would never have to worry about running out the leisure battery, and all you would need to do is pop to a charger on your travels to top up.
My biggest concern is... How the heck are you going to route the grey water from the sink to a tank and where is that tank located. I suspect we may see all tanks located inside? Or it may require vans to be chassis rail design with batteries in the centre section and ancillaries such as tanks outside the chassis rail? But it is the thing that I am most concerned about for the future.
The other thing that concerns me is I wouldn't trust half the manufacturers. I can see a new guy on the job using a 3" screw instead of a 1" screw to hold something to the floor and screwing through the battery. I just don't trust them enough with this.
Thankfully for me I only do self builds these days.
Look at what Stellantis are doing. It isn't a big leap from the light commercial vans to making a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ducato / Boxer/ Jumper with a 400 km range and 3 minute refuel time. If it is also a hybrid the use of KERS braking improves energy efficiency as well.
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology
Stellantis is pursuing a broad spectrum of sustainable powertrain technologies. Find out more about our Mid-Power Hydrogen Fuel Cell Zero Emission solution.
No way am I sleeping in a van with a hydrogen tank. Here are a few thoughts for you.Look at what Stellantis are doing. It isn't a big leap from the light commercial vans to making a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ducato / Boxer/ Jumper with a 400 km range and 3 minute refuel time. If it is also a hybrid the use of KERS braking improves energy efficiency as well.
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology
Stellantis is pursuing a broad spectrum of sustainable powertrain technologies. Find out more about our Mid-Power Hydrogen Fuel Cell Zero Emission solution.www.stellantis.com
If you think an EV battery fire on a ship is bad. Wait until there is a hydrogen leak/fire/boom. They will be banned instantly. You will not be allowed on the channel tunnel or ferries.
As soon as one goes boom on a campsite, all campsites will ban them completely. Whereas an EV fire can be managed through distance you could not get far enough away from a hydrogen boom.
Hydrogen will always be more expensive than electric so you will be paying more, probably a LOT more for each mile you do. You can make a choice between stopping every 300Km and paying less or going 400Km and paying more.
And before you say Hydrogen vehicles won't go boom. I am not saying it will be a regular occurance as safety will be the very highest priority. But it only takes one persons poorly thought out modification and all that safety is undone.
At least a year ago, on another thread I posted my opinion that I wouldn't trust FIAT to make a safe hydrogen powered van, so I tend to agree with you regarding the safety aspect.
If the manufacturer of the base vehicle was (say) Honda or Toyota, I would have much more confidence regarding the safety of a MH conversion.
As for the economics, any government can equalise the energy cost difference between BEVs and Hydrogen powered vans via taxes and subsidies. Both are valid zero exhaust emission technologies. The question is a political one.
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
I don't think it would be feasible for subsidies to cover the 3-7 times greater cost of hydrogen over BEV. That would require a lot of penalty on the battery to make them cost comparable. OR would require a big tax bill.
Vehicles are supposed to be a revenue generator not a cost base.
But I get where you are coming from. I just can't see it myself. Market economics and safety will stop hydrogen being a mainstream thing
I am seeing more and more good battery tech coming through from reputable sources. I don't expect any of them imminently but within 10 years battery capacity will double (per KG and per unit volume) whilst coming down in price.
In 20 years batteries will be so good that hydrogen won't even get a look in and any investment made will be lost.
I hope that your prediction comes true. The immediate problem seems to be that the ban on sales of ICE is now only 7 years away. If it was at least 20 years away it would allow more time for battery technology (and the generating and distribution infrastructure investment necessary) to make ICE a Dodo via natural progression. There should not be a total ban on ICE anyway because BEV can never be suitable for all applications. You don't want to ring 999 and get the call centre telling you the response will be more than an hour because the nearest Fire appliance is still being charged.
This 2030 deadline is based on wishful thinking by the politicians, hoping that somehow the technology will provide the solution. At best, by 2030 it can only be a partial solution. Which will cause avoidable economic disruption.
The political class are such a bunch of numpties. Either that, or evil corrupt twisters who hate the UK.
Counter point: the 2030 deadline is far too late as we're already well past the point where we can easily mitigate climate change.
I am not going to get into another climate emergency (ludicrously elevated to "boiling" by the UN) debate. You can take it as read that I disagree with your premise.
As for mitigation, I favour this as the better, cost-effective strategy to deal with the effects on humanity of (cyclical, natural, and inevitable) climate change than bankrupting ourselves to end CO2 emissions.
But are we just complaining about a bit of inconvenience now, only to face something much worse down the line?
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
Or, it could well be the other way round. Time will tell. All the predictions so far of catastrophes have proved false. It seems more probable that such self-imposed short deadlines are also going to be seen with 20:20 hindsight as similarly ridiculous and cultish. For much the same reasons because the source is the same group-think.
The bombastic headline grabbers created by the media haven't happened. We're bang on track from the models from 30 years ago.
If it was 20 years away there would be no pressure to develop it. It is only now that it is 7-8 years away that manufacturers have started to push really hard and make the investments needed.
They are only just starting to invest in battery factories when they knew for 10 years this was coming but buried their heads in the sand.
7-8 years is plenty of times for car manufactures contrary to their sob stories. Look at what musk achieved with Model 3 and he had no experience of mass production.
PS: Manufactures tend to be very short sighted only looking to the next quarter or two.
Looks like about half a degree in less than 50 years. That's pretty worrying.
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
How about the need to invest in the infrastructure? That is going to take a lot longer than 7 years to accomplish, especially the nukes needed for base generation.
in the UK we are on target with charging infrastructure contrary to the scare stories.
“Dither & Delay” Of UK Government On Electric Vehicles Risks Investment Essential To Transport Decarbonisation - CleanTechnica
The “dither and delay” manoeuvres of the UK government concerning the zero emissions car and van mandate could private investment
cleantechnica.com
The National grid says we are ok on generation.
We have time. It is not like a switch will be flipped and ALL ICE cars stop working and convert overnight to EV. It will be over the next 7 + 13 years it will happen.
7 years till the ban, then 13 year average lifespan of a second hand ICE car.
Expect ICE cars to be better looked after and to be kept on the road longer after the ban on new ones as well.
- Aug 18, 2014
- 25,972
- 155,749
- Funster No
- 32,898
- MH
- Transit PVC
- Exp
- 16 years since restarting
They have been saying that for 60 years ,yet there are more reserves now than back then
They are in social housing. paying for it yourself & there is **** all.
Why? Why would i want to cycle or walk when I can drive?
It doesn't say "ICE" mileage it says "car mileage" I.e = all
Seems they are meeting the target ahead of schedule.
UK EV Share At 24.1%, BEVs Double - Model Y Top - CleanTechnica
July saw the UK's EV share at 24.1% of the auto market, up from 16.7% year on year. Full electrics were up in volume 88% YoY, to over 23,000.
cleantechnica.com
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
MichaelT
LIFE MEMBER
New houses should be built with solar and I don't see any social housing having solar panels here, maybe in Spain!
Because its good for you and better for the environment and you see so much more!
in the UK we are on target with charging infrastructure contrary to the scare stories.
“Dither & Delay” Of UK Government On Electric Vehicles Risks Investment Essential To Transport Decarbonisation - CleanTechnica
The “dither and delay” manoeuvres of the UK government concerning the zero emissions car and van mandate could private investment
The National grid says we are ok on generation.
We have time. It is not like a switch will be flipped and ALL ICE cars stop working and convert overnight to EV. It will be over the next 7 + 13 years it will happen.
7 years till the ban, then 13 year average lifespan of a second hand ICE car.
View attachment 791201
Expect ICE cars to be better looked after and to be kept on the road longer after the ban on new ones as well.
On target? What does that say about the target.
I have sources for the opposite view but today I can't be bothered to link you up. Carry on believing all will be well. Have a nice weekend.
I have never said ALL will be well, I was answering a specific point.
The Housing Association, which owns a significant proportion of social housing in the UK, put solar on a lot of their properties. If you see several houses in an estate with the same solar panels, chances are they are Housing Association.
- Jan 11, 2010
- 2,865
- 10,328
- Funster No
- 9,901
- MH
- Auto-trail
- Exp
- Well that`s our 14th year & still loving it.
Certainly Solar panels are the way forward....Errrr In the winter months when you need more electricity you have less daytime hours for the Solar Panels to produce it, opps less electricity when you need it the most, hardly the work of a Genius. 
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
Join us or log in to post a reply.
To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun
Join MotorhomeFun
Join us, it quick and easy!
Log in
Already a member? Log in here.