Good old Lithium yet again.

[donkey]

There is an app called character map (Microsoft) has all the various signs and features you'll ever need, no messing with Alt key, which by the way doesn't work for me either

Well done, I was beginning to think it was only me.

Geoff

 

[TizzyOnTour]

Hi Lenny. This may not bother you given your comment about not being on ehu often but carthago owners who have the CBE charger fitted and also have lithium batteries are noticing that this make of charger switches off after a given period once the batteries are fully charged. The batteries then discharge until they reach a certain Soc (not sure but mine seemed to be about 65% then the charger seems to cut in again. Not sure if this is deterministic or just what I observed. Anyway I had carthago replaced my charger with a schaudt charger under warranty and it lets the bms worry about overcharging.
Since you mention that you may chose an alternative charger knowing this may influence your choice

Yes. We had this problem with the CBE charger. In fact our Lithiums would continue discharging until we manually unplugged the EHU then re-plugged, thereby fooling the CBE to start the charging cycle again. Via the dealer we convinced Carthago to change the charger under warranty. They agreed to cover the cost of us switching to Victron. The dealer told me last week, that Carthago now supply a CBE with Lithium charging profile if you choose the factory fit Lithium upgrade.

 

[Pausim]

Yes. We had this problem with the CBE charger. In fact our Lithiums would continue discharging until we manually unplugged the EHU then re-plugged, thereby fooling the CBE to start the charging cycle again. Via the dealer we convinced Carthago to change the charger under warranty. They agreed to cover the cost of us switching to Victron. The dealer told me last week, that Carthago now supply a CBE with Lithium charging profile if you choose the factory fit Lithium upgrade.

My CBE 516 charger keeps my lithium battery at about 90% when it drops back to the 13.5V maintenance charge. Disconnecting and reconnecting the power restarts the bulk charge cycle at 14.1V. Sounds like your CBE charger was not working on the maintenance part of the cycle.

 

[TizzyOnTour]

My CBE 516 charger keeps my lithium battery at about 90% when it drops back to the 13.5V maintenance charge. Disconnecting and reconnecting the power restarts the bulk charge cycle at 14.1V. Sounds like your CBE charger was not working on the maintenance part of the cycle.

Yes agreed. Ultimately it transpired Carthago were fitting the Lithium battery option without suitable charger that ran a proper maintenance cycle. I believe they now do if you have Lithium as a factory order.

 

[Pausim]

Yes agreed. Ultimately it transpired Carthago were fitting the Lithium battery option without suitable charger that ran a proper maintenance cycle. I believe they now do if you have Lithium as a factory order.

I moved my lithium over from my previous motorhome 3 years ago before Carthago offered a lithium option. I have a suitable charger with a lithium profile in my shed but have never bothered fitting it, the non Li CBE 516 does what I want keeping the battery at about 90% when on ehu.

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[Lenny HB]

Raul & Hoovie OK guys I'm getting swayed towards a Multiplus possibly the 3000, for my which my use will be mainly off grid. There doesn't appear to be a lot of difference between the 3 versions. Multiplus , Compact Multiplus & Multiplus 2.
There is a difference in standby current obviously the lower the better but probably not critical if I go for 460 ah of Lithium.

So perhaps you guys can tell me what I'm missing.

I find it a bit annoying you need to buy a VE Bus dongle or even more expensive gear to set them up properly.

 

[Hoovie]

Raul & Hoovie OK guys I'm getting swayed towards a Multiplus possibly the 3000, for my which my use will be mainly off grid. There doesn't appear to be a lot of difference between the 3 versions. Multiplus , Compact Multiplus & Multiplus 2.
There is a difference in standby current obviously the lower the better but probably not critical if I go for 460 ah of Lithium.

So perhaps you guys can tell me what I'm missing.

I find it a bit annoying you need to buy a VE Bus dongle or even more expensive gear to set them up properly.

Firstly, do you think you are likely to get sucked into the Victron VRM Universe for data-logging and real-time montioring?
If you do, that can impact what you get to go with the Multiplus.

VE.Bus Smart Dongle - This lets you use the VE.Connect Smart App to talk to the Multiplus in a similar way to the MPPTs, BMVs, etc.
If you are not going to go into VRM, then I would say this would be something you should go for.

VE.Bus Mk3 Dongle - This is a different dongle and is needed to actually programme the Multiplus - so stuff like program the MP AES (nothing to do with Fridge) standby mode, charging voltages, etc.
THIS Dongle is a setup one and not one which the typical Multipus end-user would get. They would rely on their Victron dealer to set it up. YOU are probably not the typical Multiplus user and would want to be able to mess around with the settings I would venture to guess
I have a Mk3 Dongle, and I honestly can't recall last time I used it.

If you ARE VRM-Bound, then you need a Victron OS device - most popular is the Cerbo GX, but there are other options, including a Raspberry Pi option. It might be worth dropping Autorouter a PM? I think he upgraded from a CCGX (Colour Control GX) to a Cerbo GX to get extra features, but for your initial setup, I think the CCGX could be a nice option as you get a screen to see stuff and it is still VRM accessible - and with VRM, you will not need the Smart Dongle or the Mk3 Dongle as you can actually run the VE.Config windows program on your PC (not Mac compatible) and upload it tothe Multiplus via VRM.


Now as far as which one to go for, I would veer to the Compact Multiplus 12/3000/120-16. 12V, 3000VA Inverter, 120A Charger and a 16A Hookup capability (you can get a -50 for 50A but when would you ever get - or want - a 50A hookup??).

HTH

 

[eddie]

I find it a bit annoying you need to buy a VE Bus dongle or even more expensive gear to set them up properly.

Although I wanted the VE Bus so I could play with the Multiplus on my phone you don't have to have it to set the Multiplus up.

The blokes at work who fitted it all for me did it with the laptop

I must admit being serious for a minute it hasn't missed a beat, and I have a Dometic three way electric oven which I use, it also is happy with the 110 VDC input transformer for the oven and the Air Conditioning which the smaller units would baulk at

 

[AdrianChen]

Raul & Hoovie OK guys I'm getting swayed towards a Multiplus possibly the 3000, for my which my use will be mainly off grid. There doesn't appear to be a lot of difference between the 3 versions. Multiplus , Compact Multiplus & Multiplus 2.
There is a difference in standby current obviously the lower the better but probably not critical if I go for 460 ah of Lithium.

So perhaps you guys can tell me what I'm missing.

I find it a bit annoying you need to buy a VE Bus dongle or even more expensive gear to set them up properly.

We have a Multiplus II - 3000/120 etc. Wanted the GX version but it wasn't available in time for our trip, so went with the CerboGX. The supplier preset the thing before the install, and would be happy to remote log in to the system for any changes, but it is easy enough to download the configuration file, amend it as Hoovie has described in the windows app and upload it back to the device, took no time at all sitting at home in the warm! Switching between normal AES and Search mode I think is only possible this way (or the Mk3 dongle), but we haven't found the need to use these... yet, our 430AH bank has coped so far (habits change when the capacity goes up though). Our install works well with the Carthago/CBE stuff, but the one thing I haven't managed to disable yet is the trickle charge from the hab battery to the engine start battery when the CBE panel is on (We have an Ablemail for this job) - The Engine to hab was disabaled by snipping the well known resistor however the panel still says it is in operation even though it isnt..... (We have an Orion TR for this). The CBE ammeter is not in the loop for the new stuff (40amp max I think), so I will switch it off in the panel menu at some point - left it on just in case. (We have a smartshunt fitted to monitor stuff).

 

[Raul]

On what already has been said, I may add: if I was going to buy a MP 12/3000 now, I would go for MP2, and second choice MP compact. The old square MP uses the old large transformer, and the stand by consumption is higher.
I have a compact MP 2kva in the van and the standby draw is about 9w. I have a MP2 48/5000 in the house and standby draw is 18w. The MP2 it has a reduced peak surge by 500va but, a very low stand by consumption, compared to the old models. The compact is on the same chassis and platform as MP2, the difference is accreditations I think.

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[Lenny HB]

Would Mrs HB like a lithium battery for Christmas ? Could be the answer

I've bought her one, a new battery for her bike.

 

[Lenny HB]

On what already has been said, I may add: if I was going to buy a MP 12/3000 now, I would go for MP2, and second choice MP compact. The old square MP uses the old large transformer, and the stand by consumption is higher.
I have a compact MP 2kva in the van and the standby draw is about 9w. I have a MP2 48/5000 in the house and standby draw is 18w. The MP2 it has a reduced peak surge by 500va but, a very low stand by consumption, compared to the old models. The compact is on the same chassis and platform as MP2, the difference is accreditations I think.

Been looking at them again the Multiplus II I like because of the low standby current but it's bigger than the Multiplus, & they only do the compact in 2000va. It's going to come down to available space in the end so until I actually get the van I can't make a decision.

 

[Raul]

Indeed, the compact it’s all I had space for to. The original space housed a compact 1600va, and later upgraded to the 2000va model. At that time, the MP2 was not available in 12v. They started with 48v then 24v and only later on a 12v was available.
MP2 it’s best choice as it’s new design, new chassis and a very low stand by power in its class.