Globecar Modifications

[Minxy]

Andrew, I hope no-one tips off the border police etc when you go abroad, or back to the UK, that you may be carrying contraband as they'll think they've hit the jackpot if they see all that 'white plastic packing' hidden in the doors ...!

Seriously though, your 'next' mission, should you choose to accept it, is to do the next major bit of insuation needed ... there's none (or very little if it's in there!) insulation in the roof edges (ie where it meets the wall panels) I found this out when I was fitting extra sockets and fed the cables along behind the upper rear cupboard plastic lining/covers. You can loosen the covers but won't be able to remove them (unless you take out all your lockers totally!) so will need to carefully stuff the insulation in a bit at a time to fill all the voids there.

I didn't do mine at the time I found it as I wasn't sure how big an issue it would be however I found that even with the over-bed lockers closed the areas were a cold point in the camper and at the start of our holiday when the temperatures were lower in France in November we got condensation forming on the plastic cover and making some of the clothes wet. The front lockers weren't affected so it must have been as a result of us sleeping there with the warm air we breathed-out overnight meeting the cooler surface in the locker above. Fortunately I had some of the 'bubble wrap' type silver sided material with me which I'd used to line the over-dinette lockers to help keep them cooler in the summer and not affect the food etc stored in there so I used this to line the top of the affected overbed lockers instead which has sorted out the issue, but isn't ideal so I'll be doing some insulation of ours too, both dinette and over-bed lockers to prevent both cold and heat issues.

 

[Blue Knight]

That’s a good job done Andrew and good pictorial instructions, I might insulate my doors too I’ve also got the plastic tool kit to remove buttons and trim.

John.

I'm hoping it will make all the difference John - I'll do more jobs first and then I'll test it out when it gets colder.

 

[lorger]

@Blue Knight, thanks for the pics and instructions. I've heard the side door isn't isolated either are you going to do that next, could you put a link to what insulation you used.

Thanks

 

[Blue Knight]

Andrew, I hope no-one tips off the border police etc when you go abroad, or back to the UK, that you may be carrying contraband as they'll think they've hit the jackpot if they see all that 'white plastic packing' hidden in the doors ...!

Seriously though, your 'next' mission, should you choose to accept it, is to do the next major bit of insuation needed ... there's none (or very little if it's in there!) insulation in the roof edges (ie where it meets the wall panels) I found this out when I was fitting extra sockets and fed the cables along behind the upper rear cupboard plastic lining/covers. You can loosen the covers but won't be able to remove them (unless you take out all your lockers totally!) so will need to carefully stuff the insulation in a bit at a time to fill all the voids there.

I didn't do mine at the time I found it as I wasn't sure how big an issue it would be however I found that even with the over-bed lockers closed the areas were a cold point in the camper and at the start of our holiday when the temperatures were lower in France in November we got condensation forming on the plastic cover and making some of the clothes wet. The front lockers weren't affected so it must have been as a result of us sleeping there with the warm air we breathed-out overnight meeting the cooler surface in the locker above. Fortunately I had some of the 'bubble wrap' type silver sided material with me which I'd used to line the over-dinette lockers to help keep them cooler in the summer and not affect the food etc stored in there so I used this to line the top of the affected overbed lockers instead which has sorted out the issue, but isn't ideal so I'll be doing some insulation of ours too, both dinette and over-bed lockers to prevent both cold and heat issues.

I'm really chuffed that you've posted all of that info Mel as I was beginning to think I was going mad with this insulation-thing.

The reason why I say that is that I've not found much insulation (or nothing substantial) so what I expect is happening is that Globecar is using its well designed and well fitted 'fully enclosed' furniture system to help create a habitation bubble which then retains the heat.

The problem then occurs when the heat is dissipated through the large roof/wall/door/corner cavities since these IMO are absent of any significant insulation levels and therefore serve only to cool the hab area.

I had a prod around the roof area which you mentioned and there's nothing there apart from the 12mm bonded insulation foam; these gaps needs filling if the heat is ever going to be retained in the cold weather.

I'll be in the van again tomorrow but in the meantime I already have a couple of insulation jobs lined up. The pics below show what's behind my fridge and drawers and as you can see there is no insulation between the outer bodywork and the inner skin on my hab door side. The cabinetry work is very well put together but the lack of insulation on the hab side will suck the heat out of the van.

I'll check out the ceiling corners tomorrow.

Andrew

1. Under the sink and burner:

2. Under the fridge:

 

[Minxy]

@Blue Knight, thanks for the pics and instructions. I've heard the side door isn't isolated either are you going to do that next, could you put a link to what insulation you used.

Thanks

AFAIK none of the doors are insulated, cab, side or rear, so should keep Andrew busy for a while!

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[CazPaul]

Very informative regarding insulation this thread, I presume that all PVC converters leave the same areas free as well.

On our Murvi Morello PVC I must say it was very well put together but the insulation was just cheap, thin loft insulation placed against the walls etc.

 

[Blue Knight]

@Blue Knight, thanks for the pics and instructions. I've heard the side door isn't isolated either are you going to do that next, could you put a link to what insulation you used.

Thanks

I used a top-line roof truss insulation for the rear doors as I wanted to pack-in the material but I will not be using that for any other area of the van.

I have considered the idea of injecting an automotive foam into the other panels but the big issue with this idea is that if moisture gets trapped in the body cavity then it will create the right conditions for rapid rust growth, and especially at the tapered points where the outer shell is bonded to the inner skin of the metalwork. If I were to inject foam then I would first need to inject an underseal/rust barrier prior to the application of the foam - just to be sure.

In reality the concept of fitting aftermarket insulation is quite a difficult one as you have to be selective about which area you insulate and those you don't. The last thing you want in a PVC is entrapped moisture so I plan on addressing some areas and ignoring others.

It's a bit like our old house in terms of its insulation principles, i.e. if you insulate too much then the moisture will be trapped and the house will rapidly go down hill. It's the same principle for a vehicle so I'll have to choose wisely.

 

[Blue Knight]

P.S. One of the best mods too date is the fully fitted carpet (not the whipped type), as that really does make a difference to the thermal insulation propwrties of the floor. A bit of Axminster Wool always make a difference

 

[CazPaul]

I used a top-line roof truss insulation for the rear doors as I wanted to pack-in the material but I will not be using that for any other area of the van.

I have considered the idea of injecting an automotive foam into the other panels but the big issue with this idea is that if moisture gets trapped in the body cavity then it will create the right conditions for rapid rust growth, and especially at the tapered points where the outer shell is bonded to the inner skin of the metalwork. If I were to inject foam then I would first need to inject an underseal/rust barrier prior to the application of the foam - just to be sure.

In reality the concept of fitting aftermarket insulation is quite a difficult one as you have to be selective about which area you insulate and those you don't. The last thing you want in a PVC is entrapped moisture so I plan on addressing some areas and ignoring others.

It's a bit like our old house in terms of its insulation principles, i.e. if you insulate too much then the moisture will be trapped and the house will rapidly go down hill. It's the same principle for a vehicle so I'll have to choose wisely.

Exactly right Andrew, the worst thing you can do in a old house is block all the old air vents up and blow cavity wall insulation in it is a recipe for disaster as many have found out.

 

[Blue Knight]

Exactly right Andrew, the worst thing you can do in a old house is block all the old air vents up and blow cavity wall insulation in it is a recipe for disaster as many have found out.

This is why I'm thinking of potentially using a multi-layered insulation on the outer shell if only to increase the thermal protection of the hab area.

I'm up for any advice but what I want ideally is the thickest possible, say 40mm, to help establish a reasonable barrier.

I'm going against what I said earlier about filling the gap but if I can create a barrier on the outer skin and still keep an airflow then it would be a win-win (famous last words ).

What do you think sir - a good idea or not?

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[Minxy]

Andrew, I've just had my torch out and had a shuftie behind our kitchen drawers and from what I can see the back panel of the unit pretty much covers it all except for a part where the locking mechanism is and a bit behind the water pipes ... there may be more 'gaps' but I ain't emptying the drawers to look! I'm currently sitting in the camper near the old pet passport check-in at Eurotunnel, shortly to go to bed as we'll be crossing back to Blighty at 7.50 am ... it's cold here and quite blustery but we're nice and snug in our camper.

I've just had a quick 'feel' round the cab area and can't detect any draughts at all although we do have our external long length screens on which may prevent some from the dash vents coming through (they're set to 'recirculating' air rather than from the outside). I have noticed though that there is a little bit of a draught coming in from the sliding door bottom, nothing much though, and another place is at the centre top of the rear doors but my thermal curtains stop that getting to us. I'll investigate them more fully when I get home,

 

[Wombles]

Sheeps wool looks a good insulation option https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/rb-panel-van-conversion-begins.100614/page-10 especially for areas where more rigid insulation wouldn't work.
More general insulation info. & photos here https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/rb-panel-van-conversion-begins.100614/page-6

 

[CazPaul]

When we were planning our self build then it was going to be 2 part spray foam throughout, but that was on a bare shell so much easier.

I would do the sliding door and then use the van a bit more in colder weather and see how you get on first, see if any condensation or cold spots.

Doing the rear door will have made a big difference already.

 

[Blue Knight]

I have noticed though that there is a little bit of a draught coming in from the sliding door bottom, nothing much though, and another place is at the centre top of the rear doors but my thermal curtains stop that getting to us. I'll investigate them more fully when I get home,

It may be too early to judge but I reckon that those drafts are a cold thermal flow which have been produced by the coldness of the metal.

As Paul @CazPaul said above I think I'll investigate the hab door and see what can be done. Karen's @Wombles idea of utilising wool is a good one too but for the door I may just use a combo of automotive spray foam on the vertical edges and 10-20mm insulation on the sides. I'll check tomorrow Mel.

Cheers,

Andrew

 

[Blue Knight]

Morning all,

I've had the hab-door panel off today and as suspected there's no real insulation material inside, with the exception of a whole load of 20mm foam (as found in the rear doors).

Observations:

1. There are so many metal surfaces showing within the door skin itself that in a cold weather environment the door space will effectively become a fridge and this cooling effect will transfer to the hab area.

2. The job will be a lot more fiddly to complete than what I first expected due to the depth of the door cavities and the fact that I can't access most of the door very well due to the kitchen furniture.

3. There are too many working parts in the door to use foam injection safely while adding layers of 10-15mm sticky-backed insulation is pointless as you wouldn't be able to cover most of the awkward surfaces effectively. The only way to insulate this door properly is to do the same as the rear doors, i.e. pack it out.

@Minxy Girl Mel, if your set-up is anything like mine then I think I have an idea of where the lower draft on yours is originating from - see pic-4 below:

1. 20 x 2-stage plugs to remove:

2. Here are the 4 x primary door cavities showing the 20mm thick black foam:

3. Here's a pic of one of the easily accessible cavities around the door lock. The rest of the door internals will be a right PITA to access properly:

4. Mel - you'll be able to glimpse a very small piece of the floor through a small apperture in the pic. I believe that the open skin of the vehicle (like it is in mine) is causing a cold air current to flow through this appertures and along the door to the drivers seat. I've not noticed it myself but I still intend to insulate the vehicle body behind the fridge and cupboards:

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[Blue Knight]

Seriously though, your 'next' mission, should you choose to accept it, is to do the next major bit of insuation needed ... there's none (or very little if it's in there!) insulation in the roof edges (ie where it meets the wall panels) I found this out when I was fitting extra sockets and fed the cables along behind the upper rear cupboard plastic lining/covers. You can loosen the covers but won't be able to remove them (unless you take out all your lockers totally!) so will need to carefully stuff the insulation in a bit at a time to fill all the voids there. .

I've had a look at those bits today Mel and after a bit of investigation I've decided not to bother with the corner roof voids.

I can peel back the plastic lining a wee bit but if I removed the central shelf partition then I could insulate the corner voids with ease. The problem with my wood partitions (same as yours - probably!) is that they've been cut into the wood floor of the cupboards so in theory I would damage my van. What I may do instead is line the insides of the cupboard with 3-5mm silver insulation lining as that will do a proper job IMO.

The corner pillars for the rear doors can easily be accessed by removing the door seal which then releases the vertical plastic trim - pics below:

Inside the rear corner pillars:

 

[Minxy]

I've had a look at those bits today Mel and after a bit of investigation I've decided not to bother with the corner roof voids.

I can peel back the plastic lining a wee bit but if I removed the central shelf partition then I could insulate the corner voids with ease. The problem with my wood partitions (same as yours - probably!) is that they've been cut into the wood floor of the cupboards so in theory I would damage my van.

Same here, it would be easy to crack the plastic cover if you try to lever the covers away too much to stuff the insulation in.

What I may do instead is line the insides of the cupboard with 3-5mm silver insulation lining as that will do a proper job IMO.

Pretty much what my 'temporary' fix was whilst away with the 'bubble foil' insulation stuff, I will probably do the same as you and line the cupboard inners instead of attempting to line the actual void behind the covers.

I've got a large roll of the bubble stuff in the garage so could use that, alternatively I used thin camping roll mats which have foil insulation on one side to make insulating pads for the hab windows (they slot in between the window and the closed blinds) and have some left over so may try that instead as, with it being a bit stiffer, it will be easier to keep in shape as the bubble foil stuff tends to sag a bit. If you want to go the whole hog, you can also stick some insulation behind the control panel housing as there's none in their either ... the question is when do you STOP insulating it!

 

[CazPaul]

Bloody hell, is there any insulation anywhere in the walls either?

Its really informative reading this thread though as we will finish up with PVC one day for the last van.

 

[Blue Knight]

I've got a large roll of the bubble stuff in the garage so could use that, alternatively I used thin camping roll mats which have foil insulation on one side to make insulating pads for the hab windows (they slot in between the window and the closed blinds) and have some left over so may try that instead as, with it being a bit stiffer, it will be easier to keep in shape as the bubble foil stuff tends to sag a bit. If you want to go the whole hog, you can also stick some insulation behind the control panel housing as there's none in their either ... the question is when do you STOP insulating it!

I've got a cunning plan Mel

I'm going to invest in the following gear from Toolstation (£23 incl VAT):

1. Material: YBS General Purpose ThermaWrap Insulation 1200mm x 7.5m.

2. Spec: High performance aluminium foil & LDPE insulation material. Traps air within its structure creating low emissivity air spaces to enhance the total thermal capabilities. For use in dry lining and underfloor. Rolls can be joined together with Foil Tape 16904
• Thickness: 3.70 mm
• R Value: 1.455 m2 K/W

I intend to insert big enough sections of YBS insulation so that the cupboard floors, walls and roofline is covered as a single piece. (Pic below).

The 3.7mm thickness in the material is small enough to prevent any loss of space while tough enough to be used on the shelf floor and to have objects placed on it.

 

[Minxy]

Bloody hell, is there any insulation anywhere in the walls either?

Its really informative reading this thread though as we will finish up with PVC one day for the last van.

Unfortunately I think a lot of PVC converters don't put much insulation in the 'awkward' areas etc, relying on the cover/decor panels to be sufficient. I have to say though, despite the lack of insulation in some areas, the camper is lovely and snug and certainly better than some MHs we've had.

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[Blue Knight]

Bloody hell, is there any insulation anywhere in the walls either?

Its really informative reading this thread though as we will finish up with PVC one day for the last van.

I've not found much Paul but fortunately for us Globie owners it appears that the furniture and interior (i.e. the conversion bit), is so well fitted that it almost isolates the Fiat metal body.

The 20mm black foam stuff that Fiat has seemingly splatted here and there on the shell appears to be more like a sound dampening foam which is there to suppress the tinney effect of the bare metal. It's certainly not much good for anything else.

If I go ahead and fully insulate the rear doors, hab door, off-side lower body, B-pillars, rear corner pillars and the cupboard linings then I reckon I'll have a proper van for cold weather trips (plus, the fitted carpet helps too ).

 

[Minxy]

I've got a cunning plan Mel

I'm going to invest in the following gear from Toolstation (£23 incl VAT):

1. Material: YBS General Purpose ThermaWrap Insulation 1200mm x 7.5m.

2. Spec: High performance aluminium foil & LDPE insulation material. Traps air within its structure creating low emissivity air spaces to enhance the total thermal capabilities. For use in dry lining and underfloor. Rolls can be joined together with Foil Tape 16904
• Thickness: 3.70 mm
• R Value: 1.455 m2 K/W

That looks like the same roll of stuff I've got tucked away in the garage.

I intend to insert big enough sections of YBS insulation so that the cupboard floors, walls and roofline is covered as a single piece. (Pic below).

I lined the wall and top of the lockers in large pieces but found it sagged in the middle as it doesn't have enough structural strength to support itself fully, whilst away I got round it by fitting it in smaller width sections and using some gaffer tape to stick the edge of the foil to the plastic cover in a few places, then stuck the next piece over it with some more gaffer tape, not pretty but it did the job and kept it against the sides/top. I was thinking of making arched support 'bars' from some thin dowel/metal rods to hold it in place instead as I'm not sure how well tape will stand up to the heat in 40+ degrees. Another thing to use would be the plastic wrap tie bands that are used to secure parcels etc, I have some in my 'may come in useful' box which just might actually come in useful!

The 3.7mm thickness in the material is small enough to prevent any loss of space while tough enough to be used on the shelf floor and to have objects placed on it.

Why are you wanting to put it on the base of the locker/shelf? I have my cupboard lined with non-slip material but it's not the hole/mesh type and can't see why having the insulation material there instead would be any better but willing to be convinced. If you wanted something a bit thicker then yoga/exercise type roll mats cut to fit are good.

 

[Minxy]

If I go ahead and fully insulate the rear doors, hab door, off-side lower body, B-pillars, rear corner pillars and the cupboard linings then I reckon I'll have a proper van for cold weather trips (plus, the fitted carpet helps too ).

Don't forget in the roof directly above the rear doors as there's naff all in there either! In our previous camper the inner roof area above the cab storage shelf wasn't insulated so I put a large sheet of insulation across the whole of that which worked, in our current camper though it was already properly insulated.

 

[Vanman]

I am sure most of you will have seen this, the first x4 minutes show the build of a Globecar. It's a few years old now, but I doubt it has changed massively.

 

[ludo]

I am sure most of you will have seen this, the first x4 minutes show the build of a Globecar. It's a few years old now, but I doubt it has changed massively.

Similarly, this one too!

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[Minxy]

I am sure most of you will have seen this, the first x4 minutes show the build of a Globecar. It's a few years old now, but I doubt it has changed massively.

At around 1.20 mins on you can see the black insulation in the wall voids which they then place the wall panel covers over, but at no time do they put any insulation in where the top of the walls meet the roof, hence the cold points I mentioned earlier allowing condensation to form on the inner surface of the covers in the upper lockers, you can also see why it would be difficult to insulate them without having to dismantle the camper!

 

[Blue Knight]

I am sure most of you will have seen this, the first x4 minutes show the build of a Globecar. It's a few years old now, but I doubt it has changed massively.

That's a brilliant vid, thanks @Vanman It will give me/others a reference guide should I need to dismantle anything.

 

[Minxy]

That's a brilliant vid, thanks @Vanman It will give me/others a reference guide should I need to dismantle anything.

It came in very handy a while back when I had to show that the shower tray in my previous Globecar should have had a wooden surround to support it which was missing hence why it cracked and was finally replaced under warranty just before we sold it!

 

[Blue Knight]

At around 1.20 mins on you can see the black insulation in the wall voids which they then place the wall panel covers over, but at no time do they put any insulation in where the top of the walls meet the roof, hence the cold points I mentioned earlier allowing condensation to form on the inner surface of the covers in the upper lockers, you can also see why it would be difficult to insulate them without having to dismantle the camper!

Plus, there's a whole load of the structural part of the skin which is not covered, including the voids and supports behind the skin. Globecar has simply placed the 20mm foam insulation on any flat or accessible surface which in theory means that about 40-50% of the upright surface area is not covered - this then leads to your issue with the voids besides others.

In future cases if I see an apperture in the internal skin of the body then I'm going to tape it over and then seal a 4mm thermal heat blanket over the surface. This will prove to be efficient.

 

[Blue Knight]

It came in very handy a while back when I had to show that the shower tray in my previous Globecar should have had a wooden surround to support it which was missing hence why it cracked and was finally replaced under warranty just before we sold it!

Yeh, I was thinking of your dilema when the shower section flashed up.

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