Gaslow exchange

[PaulW2]

I have phoned various businesses to try and get gas cylinders re certified. Two said no problem until I told them they were refillable and both then stated they couldn’t do it. Said I would deliver and uplift when finished. Neither would explain to me why? I stated willing to pay for new valves etc but not interested. Wouldn’t even quote me for doing it.
As there is only a small number of places who carry out recertification they are not wanting to recertify anybody else’s cylinders and have effectively closed the market to private owners of cylinders. They want to sell or hire not recertify. In these days of recycle/reuse etc I can’t understand it. All the places would ‘dispose’ of my cylinders if I wanted them to.

It is interesting.

To my mind a key point is the Gaslow comment that if you want it done it will cost more than a new cylinder. So they can identify someone to do it if you insist, but the cost per cylinder will be more than £ 200. Seems a bit strange to me that selling a freshly manufactured item to the end consumer is cheaper than checking an old one over and maybe replacing a valve.

At least one recertifying company says they can do thousands in a week. You can be fairly sure, I would think, that it's not thousands of £ 200 jobs they're talking about.

How long will recertification take and how much should it cost?

Anyway, it's probably all a bit academic as we have to deal with the market as we find it!

 

[Stoosal]

They recertify the cylinder and fit a new valve….not sure it’s that different!

 

[PaulW2]

A refillable cylinder isn't just a standard cylinder as it has the overfill protection in it which adds complexity, as the companies are not used to these type they will have no way of checking the safety of this mechanism.

The connection/valves etc are different too, so why would they go to the hassle and expense to get the kit, train staff, and no doubt pay to be certified to be able to refurbish them, for such a small number of occasions when they would actually do the work? Then if course there's the additional risk which would increase their insurance costs.

And the companies who manufacture and then sell the things have no incentive to keep them in circulation either.

I think it fits the definition of a 'market failure'. But then, so do many other things.

 

[Northernraider]

It is interesting.

To my mind a key point is the Gaslow comment that if you want it done it will cost more than a new cylinder. So they can identify someone to do it if you insist, but the cost per cylinder will be more than £ 200. Seems a bit strange to me that selling a freshly manufactured item to the end consumer is cheaper than checking an old one over and maybe replacing a valve.

At least one recertifying company says they can do thousands in a week. You can be fairly sure, I would think, that it's not thousands of £ 200 jobs they're talking about.

How long will recertification take and how much should it cost?

Anyway, it's probably all a bit academic as we have to deal with the market as we find it!

Basically they don't want you having them recertified yourself they recycle them themselves. So the price for you is unattractive . They'll be the ones having hundreds recertified at a time.

 

[Barriesimpson]

I have 2x 24.4 litre autogas composite bottles (lpg) in the van. The bottles are good for 10 years and then require an inspection. They are then good for another 10 years apparently.

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[Lenny HB]

I have 2x 24.4 litre autogas composite bottles (lpg) in the van. The bottles are good for 10 years and then require an inspection. They are then good for another 10 years apparently.

It is not just an inspection, they need to be pressure tested and new valves fitted.

 

[PaulW2]

I have 2x 24.4 litre autogas composite bottles (lpg) in the van. The bottles are good for 10 years and then require an inspection. They are then good for another 10 years apparently.

And you can get this done where you are?

 

[Lenny HB]

I played safe and swapped my 10 year old 14kg Alugas bottles for new ones last year cost was just over ½ price of buying new ones without an exchange.
Only downside is you can only do it in Germany.

Alugas used to offer a refurbishedment on your old bottles for about 20 quid less but they stopped that a couple of years ago just exchange for new now.

 

[PaulW2]

I played safe and swapped my 10 year old 14kg Alugas bottles for new ones last year cost was just over ½ price of buying new ones without an exchange.
Only downside is you can only do it in Germany.

Alugas used to offer a refurbishedment on your old bottles for about 20 quid less but they stopped that a couple of years ago just exchange for new now.

So in Germany the part exchange costs maybe 55% of new, which seems pretty fair, and in the UK 90%, which doesn't.

 

[Pugsy]

No gas cylinder has ever technically had a 15 year life spits always been 10 years .
The valves have a manufacturer recommended replacement of 10 years especially the PRV .
Despite what some people will tell you DO NOT send a gas cylinder that has ever contained gas in the post or by standard courier service
We will give you the same 10 percent discount on Gaslow or Gasit , Alugas etc .

Wish I had known about the 10 per cent discount c when I bought 2 new cylinders and hoses
in September I left the old alugas one with John at the shop

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[Barriesimpson]

It is not just an inspection, they need to be pressure tested and new valves fitted.

Yes I'm sure they do, but you understood me as will most.

 

[Barriesimpson]

And you can get this done where you are?

In Galicia on the mainland. There is a company here who can do it but he couldn't fit me in before our Spanish Raid, so I had it done in Galicia.

 

[Lenny HB]

So in Germany the part exchange costs maybe 55% of new, which seems pretty fair, and in the UK 90%, which doesn't.

I paid €450 for 2 x 14kg cylinders that included €20 for fitting which worked out well as he found a fitting which had a hairline crack & supplied another one as the valves on the new cylinders were slightly higher.

Not such a good deal if you have 11kg cylinders as its the same price.

 

[PaulW2]

In Galicia on the mainland. There is a company here who can do it but he couldn't fit me in before our Spanish Raid, so I had it done in Galicia.

Do they do all refillables, to your knowledge, or only the type you have?

 

[Barriesimpson]

Do they do all refillables, to your knowledge, or only the type you have?

Well mine are refillable, so not sure what you mean to be honest.

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[Barriesimpson]

Well mine are refillable, so not sure what you mean to be honest.

Oh, hang on, you mean metal ones too? I don't think they do, all are composite now.

 

[PaulW2]

Oh, hang on, you mean metal ones too? I don't think they do, all are composite now.

Yes. If you for instance turned up with a garish yellow steel one from Inglaterra. I thought it would be a no, but just checking.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Yes. If you for instance turned up with a garish yellow steel one from Inglaterra. I thought it would be a no, but just checking.

I only saw the composite ones while I was there. But I didn't ask either, so albeit I don't believe they do, I will not swear that in court.......

 

[Barriesimpson]

This is their web site: https://www.autogasglp.info/

 

[PaulW2]

This is their web site: https://www.autogasglp.info/

It is striking that both the Alugas (Germany) and Autogas (in Spain) bottles are more expensive to start with than my humble Gaslow setup. So swings and roundabouts.

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[Lenny HB]

It is striking that both the Alugas (Germany) and Autogas (in Spain) bottles are more expensive to start with than my humble Gaslow setup. So swings and roundabouts.

Alugas are aluminium cylinders so ½ the weigh of Gaslow and IMO much better quality.
Also Gaslow don't do 14kg ones which we find very useful.

 

[Barriesimpson]

It is striking that both the Alugas (Germany) and Autogas (in Spain) bottles are more expensive to start with than my humble Gaslow setup. So swings and roundabouts.

Yes, but if after 10 years the inspection is good giving another 10 years of usage the initial extra is cancelled out.

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes, but if after 10 years the inspection is good giving another 10 years of usage the initial extra is cancelled out.

But as I said it is not just an inspection, it would need to go to a specialist for pressure testing.
If they say they just need an inspection they are ignoring gas safety laws, a company best to avoid IMO.

 

[PaulW2]

Yes, but if after 10 years the inspection is good giving another 10 years of usage the initial extra is cancelled out.

True, though sadly I must confess to not working to a 20-year projectable horizon at this stage!

 

[Barriesimpson]

Interestingly what appears to be a Gaslow (or very similar) installation was offered to me by the dealer when I bought the van, but at an exorbitant price for only one 13kg bottle. This is why I searched around before committing. My installation has the filler valve just above the diesel and add-blue fillers behind the small door. So when I am refilling gas and the guy comes running out saying the gas is only for use in the engines, I (with my wouldn't break a plate face) assure him that my engine is hybrid and uses both gas and diesel. They always believe it and go back to the office.

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[L' Hobo]

Last year, I had a gas smell from my locker so I got out my gas detector that I carry and it soon detected that one of the pigtails threads were leaking slightly, this l cured it with the spray liquid version of PTFE ( or whatever that plumbers/gas fitting tape is called) BUT if I had not found the leak, I was prepared to submerge the complete cylinder in a 45gall drum of soapy water to see if it bubbled.

I'm not tight but I do like to be certain something is not fixable before I throw £400 quid away.

 

[Barriesimpson]

But as I said it is not just an inspection, it would need to go to a specialist for pressure testing.
If they say they just need an inspection they are ignoring gas safety laws, a company best to avoid IMO.

Maybe I am not explaining myself very well. I already agreed that the inspection will include the pressure testing, valves etc. that is obvious - I am in Spain not Africa, albeit we are closer to Africa than Europe . So I see no reason why not to trust the company and the official certification for the installation or the capability of a licensed gas engineer even though he is not English. The company is a company to be trusted IMO.

 

[Fdhadi]

[And as for cylinder dates that’s another interesting point as I can get cylinder manufacturers to stamp whatever dates etc I choose to specify,]

Basildon states the above. Now that seriously scares me.

Could you not just stamp your own dates on cylinders if that’s what the manufacturers are willing to do.
Just a thought.

 

[Just smiffy]

Is the 15/10yr thing a recommendation or law..? If law who governs the law and what would be done if you had 18yr old cylinders…

 

[TrudeandDall]

Is the 15/10yr thing a recommendation or law..? If law who governs the law and what would be done if you had 18yr old cylinders…

It's a UK industry standard, that is then used by the UK HSE to underpin a number of UK Regulations in respect of Flammable Gasses.
The unlawful bit comes when companies who supply LPG allow customers to fill their out of date ( so not conforming to the Regulations) refillable cylinder - those companies would then be in breach of UK HSE law.
If they do not want to break the law and risk being prosecuted or having the gates to their business locked up by the HSE, then suppliers of LPG will refuse to fill your 18 year old cylinders and inspectors carrying out Hab Checks will check all of your LPG cylinders, hoses and regulator for being in date. They would bring to your attention your 18 year old equipment.
So it's not unlawful for a person to have out of date LPG cylinders, but getting them filled at a law abiding LPG supplier would be a little problematic.

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