Full timing in Europe post brexit

[Shrimp]

I have heard, from a Brit that lives in France, that one can carry on living in France as long as you’ve a property, registered etc & been there for at least 5 years!
Not sure on the truth of that statement, but I did read in a Anglo newsletter that if you’re already in the country you can stay!

 

[Ivory55]

Would not think we have the man power to do anything like that here, may be once just for the tv but not longer. You can drive all day around here and never see the police except Xmas when Liz is on her hols.

 

[gus-lopez]

The modern world and all the technology has made it very difficult, big brother is always watching.
We like to think we are flying under the radar, but gone are the days when you got stopped in your car and documents checked , only yesterday near our apartment in Spain they had road blocks testing for drink and drugs, a couple of weeks ago they set up at 2100hrs doing the same.
When they pull a vehicle to check they already know it's illegal.
I don't think anyone will be able to swan around before long, I know here in Javea things are moving at speed. For years in Spain nothing has been a problem, but it is now, there are a lot of worried people that have lived here for years, not declared money they earned paid tax drove around in dodgy cars going back or becoming resident.
Because we rent our apartment we decided to do it right, registered and pay taxes, up until now we by law take the main person booking passport / nie number.
We were sat round a friends last Monday and the phone rang it was Gardia Civil we had to visit them the next day and sign all this paperwork and now have to log into their computer and put in everyone over the age of 16. It's going to kill two birds with one stone, not only will it flag up who's where, but all the illegal rentals will be registered and taxes paid.
So the Spanish that were laid back and bit slow, are up to speed now !
I know it's all the terrorist attacks, but they are doing things that stops it. Bob.

It would be ok Bob if the rules were the same in all regions. Andalucia have just implemented yet more laws at the behest of the hoteliers/campsite owners to stop anyone setting up tourist accommodation. I know of at least 2 people in different areas that have given up trying to obtain legal paperwork over the last few years. & these are for casa rurals that in no way affect bigger operators as there aren't any, but as the rules have been drafted it is always something wrong with paperwork.
Barcelona also has similar legislation, mainly forced on them by the locals not wanting any more increases in the number of tourists.

 

[Freespirit1]

The modern world and all the technology has made it very difficult, big brother is always watching.
We like to think we are flying under the radar, but gone are the days when you got stopped in your car and documents checked , only yesterday near our apartment in Spain they had road blocks testing for drink and drugs, a couple of weeks ago they set up at 2100hrs doing the same.
When they pull a vehicle to check they already know it's illegal.
I don't think anyone will be able to swan around before long, I know here in Javea things are moving at speed. For years in Spain nothing has been a problem, but it is now, there are a lot of worried people that have lived here for years, not declared money they earned paid tax drove around in dodgy cars going back or becoming resident.
Because we rent our apartment we decided to do it right, registered and pay taxes, up until now we by law take the main person booking passport / nie number.
We were sat round a friends last Monday and the phone rang it was Gardia Civil we had to visit them the next day and sign all this paperwork and now have to log into their computer and put in everyone over the age of 16. It's going to kill two birds with one stone, not only will it flag up who's where, but all the illegal rentals will be registered and taxes paid.
So the Spanish that were laid back and bit slow, are up to speed now !
I know it's all the terrorist attacks, but they are doing things that stops it. Bob.

Great News!! Well done the Spanish - why should some ex pats or tourists get away with breaking their and EU laws

 

[bobandjanie]

That was like that here 2 years ago, all you got was
Don't tell them.
But things have changed.

When we was looking for another van, they were all 3300kg we said we need 3500KG
They said it's no problem they never weigh motorhomes, mind that was in Murcia.
Bob.

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[scotjimland]

Would not think we have the man power to do anything like that here, may be once just for the tv but not longer. You can drive all day around here and never see the police except Xmas when Liz is on her hols.

you may not see them but you are being watched 24 /7. by ANPR cameras that are on all major roads, at ports, etc.. ..Just recently I was pulled over on the A12 in Woodbridge by a police patrol car and asked to show registration and insurance.. an ANPR camera had flagged me up as uninsured.. they had been sent to stop me.. As it happened I had just bought the car and the insurance wasn't on the system yet.. I showed the certificate, they were polite and I thanked them for being vigilant ..

When full time, we were searched and questioned by the French police in Capbreton , we had to show passports, driving licence, insurance .. never knew the reason, they didn't say, but they were particularly interested in Charlotte, I think it was because she resembled Maddie McCann and they had seen her.. or someone had reported us.. who knows.

there is no flying under the radar these days..

 

[bobandjanie]

I have hneard, from a Brit that lives in France, that one can carry on living in France as long as you’ve a property, registered etc & been there for at least 5 years!
Not sure on the truth of that statement, but I did read in a Anglo newsletter that if you’re already in the country you can stay!

That may be correct but if your not getting your pension to cover healthcare then you need private health cover and money in the bank it doesn't matter how many houses you own here. Bob

 

[Lot lover]

Brexit has yet to happen but a Brit living in France is happily telling people what they will be allowed to do at some unspecified date in the future.

As for @scotjimland we all suspect that the gendarmes carry out these checks to top up their beer fund but it's only a rumour.

 

[Freespirit1]

Brexit has yet to happen .

With a bit of luck and the Nation getting some common sense perhaps it never will !!

 

[Blue Knight]

With a bit of luck and the Nation getting some common sense perhaps it never will !!

Our village will be having a huge party once we've left the EU-McMafia. I can't wait.

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[Freespirit1]

Our village will be having a huge party once we've left the EU-McMafia. I can't wait.

Your village isn’t Stonehenge by any chance is it? And I suppose your used to waiting a long time to celebrate eh! IF you eventually do get there - the rest of the nation can join you to drown their sorrows lol

Brexit - if it happens - will manage to do what Germany didnt succeed in doing in two world wars!

 

[Larby]

Your village isn’t Stonehenge by any chance is it? And I suppose your used to waiting a long time to celebrate eh! IF you eventually do get there - the rest of the nation can join you to drown their sorrows lol

Brexit - if it happens - will manage to do what Germany didnt succeed in doing in two world wars!

WIN?

 

[Freespirit1]

WIN?

VERY GOOD QUESTION !!!

NO - we are not at war with our neighbours I hope - there will be NO winners just loosers both in the U.K. and Europe as a whole!!

 

[Rob Hammond]

VERY GOOD QUESTION !!!

NO - we are not at war with our neighbours I hope - there will be NO winners just loosers both in the U.K. and Europe as a whole!!

Weird,we don’t have to be at war to ‘Win’ at something,but we will get are country back from the unelected Brussels hierarchy,now that is a win

 

[Blue Knight]

And your insurance god forbid but if you had an accident?

I'm sure the British Insurance establishments will take the opportunity to bung a few extra quid (and caveats) on the premium.

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[Hilewaychile]

"If life is so great in France can you tell me why 'immigrants' are trying to get from France to the UK and not the other way round?" That's a question I used to ask myself emerging from Le Chunnel or leaving Calais. The answer is not rocket science.

The people who are climbing the fences, walking along the m/way and rail tracks, living in bin bags at Sangatte and so on are of a radically different culture, social position, economic level etc from the British people who buy property in France, Spain, Italy etc with a view to settling there.

The first group are hoping for a hand out once they are on UK soil. In fact, they have been told that that is what they will get, if they succeed in crossing to UK. They have also been told that they will get very little or nothing if they remain in France.

The second group tend to have resources and procedures in place to enable them to live in their chosen country without having to rely 100% on the host community. They expect to pay their way, as they did in UK.

A friend and fellow battlefield guide [thus our numerous trips across the Channel each year] was, as part of his career as a police officer, on the 'illegal immigrant flying squad [West Country]' He explained to me the mechanism by which the incomers described above acquire benefits and entitlements in UK and how they then make these pay in a way that enables facilities that they were granted available to the next wave of incomers but as 'landlords'.

It is a very regrettable situation, one that decades of UK governments of every strip have allowed to develop. Brexit, for good or ill, is seen as a remedy for this. It may. It may not. We'll see.

In the meantime, the immigration boot might be on the other foot, for us Brits abroad.

 

[Hilewaychile]

The only ones I came across that were worried about the 90 day rule were the mega-rich who made sure they had their passports stamped so as not to get caught in that country's tax system - I never had that worry.........

You are in a muddle. The 90 day rule governs whether or not you must register as a resident in the country concerned. This has many implications, health care and vehicle legality being two very important ones. But it does not influence the country under whose tax regime you will fall . THAT is where the 180 day rule kicks in.

That is why Pyke13 is wrong - very wrong - when he says "Now it's all one state. Time in one is time in all". Logically, it should be so. If there are no borders between EU states, why not have a unified vehicle registration scheme? In other words a truly EU vehicle reg plate. What is the EU for if not for the sort of sensible harmonisation that an EU car reg plate represents?

But it's not so. Here in Spain, the very moment you register as a resident in Spain, which you can do on Day 1, not necessarily Day 90, it is then illegal for you to drive the car you own if it is not on Sp plates. And it is mandatory to register as a resident after 90 days.

There are complicated rules about timing to get the replating done but, in essence, that is the position. Contributer Gus-Lopez has a better grasp of this than I do, but this will serve to illustrate that it is not "All one state. In one, in all", certainly as far as vehicle ownership goes. I happen to know that the rules on replating - and paying eyewatering import tax - are even more stingent than Spain.

 

[Jim]

just loosers both in the U.K. and Europe as a whole!!

Doom and gloom.

 

[Freespirit1]

Doom and gloom.

Yep - quite right !!

 

[Hilewaychile]

I was thinking I could go the week before we leave as a EU citizen and just stay there. I know that would make me an illegal immigrant.
Once I'm there if I have no contact with the authorities who's to know I'm there?

Illegal immigrant? Not so. Any UK citizen is entitled to live and work in any other EU country - at the moment. This position would obtain for "the week before we leave" [presuming you meant UK Brexit].

The day after Brexit, all of us on EU soil will be subject to the deal that has been made between UK and EU. At the moment. M. Barnier's proposal for Brits in EU are fab. Exactly what we have now. That's why he is pushing so hard to get the UK gov to improve on the present deal being offered for EU citizens in Brexit UK.

"Once I'm there if I have no contact with the authorities who's to know I'm there?"

Amongst a whole host of possiblities, I will give you one cast iron certainty - auto vehicle reg recording cameras. There may not be customs posts but there most certainly are cameras recording every vehicle that crosses a border. And sometimes they do man the borders. I crossed the Sp/Fr border a couple of weeks after the dreadful terrorist attack at Nice. The French had it down to one lane - the tailback was miles - and every vehicle was eyed closely. Depending on the vehicle, some were pulled over for inspection and docs. Trucks, especially.

And there are A.R. recorders everywhere. On motorways - always at the toll stations - at filling stations.

I have been stopped twice by French Douanes, in the middle of France, a couple of hundred miles from any borders. Once they were checking on 'suitcase money' [cash] the second, dope.

And, here's the killer. As far as the 90 day rule goes YOU have to prove TO THEM that you have not been in the country 90 days, if that's what they want to know.

As has been mentioned to you elsewhere, I believe, your vehicle will have to have a full set of in-date, legit docs. This means at least one trip back to UK for MoT. Post Brexit you will pass through UK and EU passport control, twice. If you wing it with out of date docs, you can kiss your vehicle goodbye.

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[Hilewaychile]

Since the UK has 10s of thousands of non UK citizens who have overstayed their visas and can’t control it I can’t see them chasing people up that overstay.

 

[Hilewaychile]

I have heard, from a Brit that lives in France, that one can carry on living in France as long as you’ve a property, registered etc & been there for at least 5 years!
Not sure on the truth of that statement, but I did read in a Anglo newsletter that if you’re already in the country you can stay!

That is what Michel Barnier has proposed as the EU deal for Brits in EU: but he has been even more generous than that. He has said that any Brit legally in an EU coutry at the moment of Brexit, registered as a resident or not - [because you can be legally in EU without being reg as res] - you can stay.

The boss of the Health Authority of Valencia has said that Brit residents [presumably formally reg as res] will continue to receive the Heath Service entitlements that they currently receive. Now that is a very generous offer. It's not all one way, tho'. He knows that the money lost if lots of Brits decamped from Communidad Valenciana [which includes big Brit populations like Denia, Javea, Benidorm, Alicante, Torrevieja] a great deal of money would be lost.

From El Pais newspaper [+/- equivalent to The Independent] "The drop in the official number of Brits has been particularly severe in the region of Valencia, which was the first massive residential destination for British people in Spain. In the past five years, the number has nearly halved: from 145,652 to 75,054"

If you get French residency and happen o need a builder/landscape gardner. I may have a proposition for you.

I'm not pro or anti brexit, same as I wasn't pro or anti independence
I haven't ever voted in my life and have no intention too.
I'm not fulltiming I'm off grid, n I mean as far off grid as I can get.

I thought independence was right for Scotland but with the oil industry crash globally it may not have been the right decision, I'm guessing time will tell if brexit is the right decision or not, nothing we can change now.

I like my EU citizenship, for my own personal reasons, the same reasons that lead me to investigate what options are available to me. If that means I have to bend a few rules I will. If I get caught then it's on my own head and I will stand up and take the punishment

I was a wild child in my teens and e20's,arly a hat means I'm terrified I won't be able to get a visa to enter the EU. If I can't get a visa I can't visit my son!!!

That makes a lot of difference to what I'm willing to try, how far would you go to be able to keep in contact with your child

"I was a wild child in my teens and e20's,arly,[sic] ... I'm terrified I won't be able to get a visa to enter the EU". I guess you are implying you have a police record. If the present Barnier proposals are what we end up getting, you will be as free to come and go as you are now.

However, I would heed the advice of Brewery Dave and do it legit. Because although the EU may allow Brits to stay in an EU country that they legally happen to be in, there will be a hard border between UK and the rest of the world [minus Eire]

Note: I think I have seen a clarification of the Barnier UK ex-pat deal which has it that you will be able to stay/live/work in the country you are legal present in but you will not have the freedom to move to another EU country to live and work, as exists at present.

And if you are not in an EU country, come Brexit, depending on the deal we have, it may not be possible to go to an EU country without a visa [or whatever rules there are at present for non-EU citizens, such as US, NZ, SA etc]. This possiblity is why many 'Remainers' are so bitter about the possible consequences of Brexit for their children and future generations of Brits: very understandably.

 

[Hilewaychile]

Please please tell me you miss spelt and don't really think it's an attitude test and that you understand it's an aptitude test??
I spent 2 years studying psychology, in that time a lot of it was spent designing IQ and aptitude tests as well as completing them.
In two years I managed to get my iq test results from 139 to 161
I'm fairly sure I can pass a simple aptitude test on the first go, chances are I've done many similar previously

Interesting. I always thought that the IQ test was a test of native intelligence, not educational attainment. But our correspndent implies that he improved his IQ rating, which shows either that it can be improved by familiarisation with the test structure or it can be improved by 'knowing more' - ie an improvement in educational attainment.

And, reading your posts and the comment you quote, I am positive the 'attitude' is the word the poster wished to use.

 

[Hilewaychile]

That may be correct but if your not getting your pension to cover healthcare then you need private health cover and money in the bank it doesn't matter how many houses you own here. Bob

Here is Spain - certainly in Valencia - if you are in receipt of your State Pension, you are automatically entitled to the full Sp NHS, on reg as resident. Confirming that was the tipping point on me coming here.

 

[Burgo]

As we live & work in Spain we follow the UK Government bulletins closely. Latest official one on this subject is at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advice-for-british-nationals-travelling-and-living-in-europe

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[Hilewaychile]

As we live & work in Spain we follow the UK Government bulletins closely. Latest official one on this subject is at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advice-for-british-nationals-travelling-and-living-in-europe

The first link on the FO bulletin has this

"Both Parties have reached agreement in principle across the following three areas under consideration in the first phase of negotiations, on which further detail is set out in this report: protecting the rights of Union citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the Union; the framework for addressing the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland; and the financial settlement."

All about Ulster and the divorce settlement. I want 1/2 of Maranello - the 1/2 with the Ferrarri factory in it and the restaurant across the road where Enzo used to interview drivers. [factoid: d'y know that in English 'Ferrari' - which sounds so glam - would be 'Smith'?]

 

[Hilewaychile]

Continuing in the spirit of saving anyone the bother of delving into the bowels of the FO [actually, fairly plainly set put - for the FO]

Agreement so far on the rights of UK nationals in the EU

The UK and EU Commission have so far agreed that:

• EU27 Member States may require UK nationals and their family members covered by the agreement to apply for a residency document or status conferring the right of residence. Administrative procedures for such applications will be transparent, smooth and streamlined.
  
  
• Where an application is required to obtain status, UK nationals will have at least two years to submit their applications. Residence documents will be issued free of charge or for a charge not exceeding that imposed on nationals for the issuing of similar documents (such as passports). We will publish more details on these administrative procedures as soon as possible.
  
• UK nationals and their family members covered by the agreement will be able to leave their Member State of residence for up to 5 years without losing their right to return.
  
• UK nationals and their family members covered by the agreement will continue to have the same access as they currently do to healthcare, pensions and other benefits.
  

More information is available in the Joint Report from the negotiators of the EU and the UK on progress, and in the Comparison Table of the UK and EU positions on Citizens’ Rights.

 

[Northernraider]

I dunno we spent the last 70 odd years trying to make the world smaller and more united and then the last 4 or 5 trying to divide it all up again.

United we stand divided we fall....

Apart from the UK. ..lets break that nonsense up ...the south part just gets us in to bother p

 

[Mr porky]

Apologies if I’m not quite getting it.
As a few travel into Europe for more than 3 months but this may not be in one country disregarding the 90 day registration rule. Will we be allowed into another country for 90 days that is part of the Schengen zone or will we be required to go back to Blighty and wait for 90 days for re entry into the mainland European zone that have the Schengen Agreement.

 

[Lot lover]

@Mr porky - no one knows what will happen so stop worrying and learn to stock pile just in case. Particularly perishables.

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