Fridge on Solar?

[Techno]

My fridge supply is fed via my CBE DS520 12 volt distribution board so the 12 volt only leaves there when a D+ signal arrives. That is besides the fridges own 12 volt relay. It's all in the thread if you read it through.
Your diagram is fine but you might find that such a small diode is a bit mechanically fragile.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

My fridge supply is fed via my CBE DS520 12 volt distribution board so the 12 volt only leaves there when a D+ signal arrives. That is besides the fridges own 12 volt relay. It's all in the thread if you read it through.
Your diagram is fine but you might find that such a small diode is a bit mechanically fragile.

Sorry Techno I didn't pick up that you were getting the D+ feed from the control box. I intended to mount my diodes and charge relay in the back of the fridge where I have plenty of room and I thought a good battery feed but have just checked it and found that the feed is only live when the engine is running controlled by the extremely complex fuse-less digital control unit called Sprint made for leVoyageur by a French company with no circuit diagrams available. (Anybody have any knowledge of it?)
So the half hour job scheduled for tomorrow has now become much more complex.
But should be well worth it especially for our annual Morocco trip where the dirty gas requires a weekly fridge service to de-coke the gas system.
I get your comment about vibration so will probably encapsulate the diodes after testing to insulate them from vibration. I am stuck with the ones I have as suppliers like Maplin do not exist down here. I have to rely on my annual UK visit or expensive postage costs.
Steve

 

[Techno]

Simple solution is to do as I did or divert the fridge supply so it does not got through the distribution board

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Simple solution is to do as I did or divert the fridge supply so it does not got through the distribution board

Yes that's my plan but I didn't think I would need heavy cable so didn't buy any and leVoyageur seem to lay all the electrics then build the body round them so quite a bit of detective work to find which cables are which and to date I have found five digital boxes in different places all connected together by multi ribbon cables and just numbered terminals.
Nothing insurmountable but.....
Will let you know how it goes. But will still be worth it.
Steve

 

[Techno]

Refresh my memory Steve
How many watts did you say you have?

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Refresh my memory Steve
How many watts did you say you have?

Solar Panels I have two 80watt. But the cable will be for the Fridge supply to the leisure batteries which are at front in the wings next to the engine compartment, so I don't want to get any voltage drop.
Steve

 

[geo glasgow]

i love when you talk like this

maybe one day il do the same ,,

This is actually a future topic for myself.
I have 375 ah of battery power that is exclusive to my inverter for 230 volt use and has no impact on my separate hab batteries. These batteries are supported by 300 watts of solar that I've witnessed hitting 19.4 amps.
I replaced my fridge with a recent model that has S+ and I'm thinking of employing a CBE CSB2 relay that will connect across my solar batteries and the S+ signal instead of engine battery, this will switch my fridge to 12 volt supply once the batteries reach 13.6 volts and will continue to feed the fridge until the batteries drop to 12.5 volts.
On days where I feel this is feasible (GOOD SKY) I will combine Hab & Solar battery banks with my battery selector switch which will then support the fridge more than adequately.

Edit
If for example I decide to boil the kettle off inverter the voltage will drop below 12.5 under load and thus disconnect the fridge which will then revert to gas until my batteries reach 13.6 again and the CSB2 gives 12 volt signal to S+

 

[Dazzlin]

Let me know how it goes Steve.
I am still running our fridge on solar by manual as in maroc and have to rely on my fading memory to save the batts. Would like to automate it one day.
Doing it this week as it's not happy on gas even after a sweep.
Think it needs a kick!
I think techno is at malvern so will pick the wizards brains then if not before.
Darren

Hi Techno,
Looks like our discussion at Peterborough when you had the idea about using the CSB2 to safeguard the battery from discharging was worthwhile.
Unfortunately have only just returned to home in the South of France after our 5.5k KM trip so have not been able to do the wiring yet although have now bought all the bits while in the UK.
I am not exactly sure why you changed your wiring but my fridge supply is wired straight back to the battery with 6mm cable so should not have too much voltage drop.
This is the wiring diagram I intend to use using these Diodes

Regards,
Steve

 

[Dazzlin]

Hi Mr Techno wizzard sir
Been doing my fridge on 12v since jan manually. Been in sunny climes and can go from 10am to 6pm and stay over 12.2v
I think you are going to malvern. Could I have 5 mins to pick your brains and get you to draw me an idiot proof diagram and shopping list please?
Would it work on my dethleffs with electrobloc EBL99 and schaudt 1218 solar controller. I have 200w solar panels and 240ah of battery.
Cheers
Darren

I've just spent the morning re arranging everything and now the CBE CSB2 has a switch (on the side of the 12 volt socket box) to turn off the fridge function when not required.

 

[Dazzlin]

Ps to techno 100
How do you rate the sterling pro q 1800w inverter.
Any probs being quasi sine wave.
I know where there is one going cheap!
Thanks again
Darren

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[Techno]

The inverter didn't fail to power anything but it has packed in after 8 months so I'll have to see how that is dealt with.
I've now fitted a Sterling 1600 pure sine and that has issues as it incorrectly reads the battery voltage and triggers its internal under voltage alarm.
With my kettle on (1350watts) the batteries are at 11.9 volts but the inverter reads it as over 1.5 volts lower. With the inverter off they both read the same voltage

 

[pappajohn]

my controller seems a bit special.....

The secondary output terminals are programable for three modes......

2amp charger....aux (engine) battery charging

20amp load control....heavy loads direct off controller

20amp Automatic Dusk to dawn lighting control.

All dip switch controlled so only one mode at a time.

But then, the controller cost over £400 when new

Not bought by me i might add but i have the reciept.

 

[Techno]

Hi Mr Techno wizzard sir
Been doing my fridge on 12v since jan manually. Been in sunny climes and can go from 10am to 6pm and stay over 12.2v
I think you are going to malvern. Could I have 5 mins to pick your brains and get you to draw me an idiot proof diagram and shopping list please?
Would it work on my dethleffs with electrobloc EBL99 and schaudt 1218 solar controller. I have 200w solar panels and 240ah of battery.
Cheers
Darren

Sorry for slow replies as I'm working this week :Sad: in Southampton
So from my iPhone with a 1664 outside the pub in the sunshine ....
No I don't think your fridge on solar will operate as successfully as mine with the use of a CSB2 as with a cut off at 12.5 volts you'll be far more off than on
You only have one battery set so every time you turn anything on or your solar gets cloud you'll drop below the cut off
My fridge takes up to 14 amps maximum but my Solars can deliver up to 20 amps
My battery bank is much bigger and not used by the habitation that has its own batteries.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Hi
has anyone used this company before for a solar panel kit?


I only have space for 1 panel on my h/home ( space 1620 x 620-I have 2x120 a/h leisure batteries.
all LED lights and just really require to keep my batteries topped up for Tv lights pump etc for over a weeks use.I dont have any inverters(yet)and ok with fridge on gas( gaslow sytem fitted)

Would I need anything else or add/replace items in this kit?

cheers
:thumb:

 

[Scottyboy]

I didn't get the kit but got the same panel from them and am pleased with it, seems well built and the delivery was rapid

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Thanks for the response
can you advise what else you purchased to complete your installation or was it just a replacement panel?
cheers

 

[Scottyboy]

I got the mppt controller and monitor from sunstore the same as trikeman on his install thread except I got the smaller 10amp version. I got 10m of 4mm solar cable with the plugs prefitted and some fuses off eBay. I used the solar cable from panel to controller and what was left used to run to battery from controller. You will also need the cable entry roof box, eBay or sunstore

 

[Scottyboy]

I'm no expert I'd like to add, I pretty much just followed trikemans and techno100 excellent posts, all the info you need is on the solar power section threads

 

[makems]

Andy. Thanks for the offer. Lost sight of this thread.
Let us know if you are coming up this way. You can fill up and empty out at ours if you need to. Only 5 mins from the marina.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

No I don't think your fridge on solar will operate as successfully as mine with the use of a CSB2 as with a cut off at 12.5 volts you'll be far more off than on
You only have one battery set so every time you turn anything on or your solar gets cloud you'll drop below the cut off
My fridge takes up to 14 amps maximum but my Solars can deliver up to 20 amps
My battery bank is much bigger and not used by the habitation that has its own batteries.

Hi,
Finally got enough time to look at it properly. (How did I ever get time to work 14 or 15 hours a day!!)
It all works as I wanted BUT....
It looks as if my Solars are either very tired or much smaller than I thought. One is an Alden fitted as original equipment to the van, the second looks like a Morocco special. Unfortunately neither can be removed without getting the Sicoflexed brackets off the roof. :Sad: and it is a plastic van so may be a bit difficult, any suggestions?

Now the results:....

With the panels wired in parallel I get:
Watts wildly oscillating = 67-69 from solar Controller Readout.
Controller to Battery Volts out 13.5V
Solar to Controller Volts in = 15 volts in
Current Solar to Controller = 5.3 amps in
Controller to Battery = 5.1 amps out
So Calculated that's 69 watts to Battery 80 watts from Solars 16% loss

With the panels wired in series I get:
Watts slightly oscillating = 70 - 80 from solar Controller Readout.
Controller to Battery Volts out 13.6V
Solar to Controller Volts in = 30 volts in
Current Solar to Controller = 3.2 amps in
Controller to Battery = 5.7 amps out
So Calculated that's 78 watts to Battery 96 watts from Solars 19% loss

With the panels wired in parallel all seems more stable and slightly higher output but of course the sun is changing all the time, they switch the controller on much earlier with lower light and off later so a bit of a gain there.
At 15 volts in Parallel they are only just switching the controller on so very much better in Series.

Now the purpose of the exercise: The Fridge takes 17 amps I have two 100Ah domestic batteries. The CBE-520 does it's job and switches the fridge to battery at 13.5volt but unfortunately switches it off at 12.9 volts rather than the 12.5 volts I was expecting so I get about 5mins of fridge on then in full sun about 5mins of fridge off. That's with the fridge at room temperature. With the fridge cold after a night cooling that may be enough to keep it cold but I doubt it. But i will give it a try. The only problem is whether the electronics of the fridge are up to the continuous cycling.

I am pleased to have changed the controller as the previous one seemed to be floating at or above 14 volts or is continuously charging and I am on my third set of batteries in six years so I think they were boiling off in our continuous South of France sun. The new MPPT goes up to 14volts then settles down to 13.5.

It looks as though to achieve my goal of running the fridge on battery I will need to fit newer more efficient panels. If I am feeling flush one day and can figure a way to get the existing panels off I think it would be worth doing. I could then fit 4mm cable to the panels, at the moment it is only 2.5mm Mains cable by the looks of it. But the access is under the panel so impossible to get at.

Dazzlin, the way yours was working, while in Morocco it is certainly worth doing it properly some time and probably you only need a CBE-520 a couple of Diodes a chock block and some cable. about £35 tops.

Sorry for the long post but thought you all would be interested.

Steve

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[OldAgeTravellers]

As an addition to my last post. I had a look at the set-up at 7pm when the sun had gone down behind the mountain and the sky was completely covered in cloud getting ready for the rain we never got and the panels were producing 25volt in series and .6 amp into full batteries. So with better panels I think I could achieve my second objective of being able to charge at night when parked under a street lamp! So just got to figure out how to Un-Sikoflex the existing ones

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Just noticed a typo in my post #80 just after the output figures I put that connecting in parallel looked better, it should have read Series of course but the editing feature seems to have disappeared. May be because Jim is working on the software this weekend.
Sorry for the error oh:

 

[Techno]

Mine hit and surpassed the magical 20 amps between the clouds on Saturday.
This very easily keeps the voltage well above cut off.
A PWM regulator would struggle as it spends 25% of it's time turned off by the nature of how they regulate.
My MPPT is ON 100% plus it maximises the available power by electronic wizardry.

My solars are only rated at 5.6 amps each so clearly the mppt is improving that claimed output.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Mine hit and surpassed the magical 20 amps between the clouds on Saturday.
This very easily keeps the voltage well above cut off.
A PWM regulator would struggle as it spends 25% of it's time turned off by the nature of how they regulate.
My MPPT is ON 100% plus it maximises the available power by electronic wizardry.

My solars are only rated at 5.6 amps each so clearly the mppt is improving that claimed output.

Interesting :Confused: , I have the same controller which you recommended and with panels in series it is getting 3.2 amps then outputting out 5.7amps at 13.6volt.
It must be down to the effective wattage of my panels. I have a digital ammeter from Maplins which plugs into the fuse socket. It has been very useful in this exercise.

The controller spec. says it only switches on when panels are giving 15volt so having them in series will extend the effective hours.

What panels do you have and where from? Cause I think I will have to renew mine as I am sure they must be near end of life they are 9.5 years old and the technology has come a long way in that time, but still need to get the old ones off the polyester roof somehow. Then get new panels delivered to rural South of France

The fridge on Solar is a side issue really but it prompted me to get down and set about improving my set-up.

Out of interest, what are you powering from the right hand "light bulb" contacts on the controller?
Steve

 

[Techno]

It feeds a 15 amp socket.I generally use to feed my motorhomewifi (also sold in Jim's shop)
My solars are no longer sold by the seller
These are similar
Broken Link Removed

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Mine hit and surpassed the magical 20 amps between the clouds on Saturday.
.

Hi Andy,
I have just been playing with Ohms law a bit
Your Controller is showing 302watts which as far as I can see from mine is the input wattage.
302watts at athe panels max voltage of 21.5 = 14amps = 7amps each!!
However if we look the other way:
302w at max current 5.14 x 2 = 10.28 = 29.38 volts into the controller which suggests you have your panels in series! which you say you haven't so the controller or panels are doing a very great deal of MAGIC.
It really looks as if you are getting a free lunch and sadly suggests that my panels are totally shot. Because I have the same controller, slightly thinner cable so a bit of loss there but substantially less output. Although to be fair the batteries are constantly at full charge until I try to take the 17amps out for the fridge. but with your panels it should cope with that easily.
I tested the batteries 2 x 100Ah, today with a heavy discharge tester and they came out fine so everything points to the panels again.

SO........

The German panels you pointed to look good and interestingly are exactly the same size as the Moroccan one I have so will fit the same brackets. The Alden brackets look as if I could slide a thin carving knife under them so can probably cut them off to fit the new panels.

I presume the new panels now have the MC4 connectoirs which I have no experience of at all or do they take cable connections as well as I now have a couple of reels of 50amp cable 97/.30 which I think is 7mm so would be a shame to not use it.

Just a matter of sitting down and ordering the bits really. the problem is in France finding any bits at all, I could not find a single supplier to get 30amp spade fuse holders so had to order them from Maplins and get my son to bring them over when he visits next month.

It's not all sunshine and red wine.

Thanks for all your help though. do you have a link to your Solar Panel project if you did one?

Steve

 

[Techno]

Something I only realised last Thursday while the fridge is failing to cool on gas is that when I combine my front and rear battery banks and switch on the D+ signal from the CBE CSB2 to fool my CBE distribution panel into thinking the engine is running is that......My fridge is actually running off not only the 6 hab batteries but the starter battery too due to the battery parallel being engaged when the D+ signal is applied.
Anyway as the gas was failing I thought I'd prove the cooling unit is not faulty and in little over an hour of solar the freezer was icing up at the back.
No danger of flattening the batteries as the CBE relay goes open circuit at 12.5/6 volts.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi Andy,
Have you found why your fridge is not working on gas?
We often get fridge failure on gas in Morocco because of the dirty gas so carry a tea pot brush with a curtain wore extension which is a perfect flue brush for the fridge flue. Move the burner out of the way and a quick up and down with the brush clears the flue and are back cooling with gas. I now do it once a week in Morocco whether it needs it or not and inevitably end up doing one or two other nearby Motorhomes as well when they see what I am doing.
Hope you get it sorted.
Steve

 

[Techno]

Nothing to do with the flue or jet, the electronics simply turn the gas off prematurely.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Oh dear,
That sounds expensive, hope you get itsorted.
Friends with the same problem have ended up with a new control valve and an empty wallet.
But they have had to rely on so called experts.
My trauma heater heater has just stopped working on thermostat so now have to do a bit of detective work on that. The trouble is living in France getting any spares at a reasonable price is impossible so usually have to source from UK and suffer postage charges.
Steve

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