French licence swap leaves Briton unable to drive €100,000 campervan (1 Viewer)

[Barriesimpson]

I can never understand people who move to another country and don't seem to make any effort to learn the language the same with people who come to the UK I actually think catering for other languages reduces the incentive to learn the language in the country you move to

People living in a foreign country without speaking the language are showing an absolute and complete disrespect to their hosts.

 

[HKF]

But I think in the way you are expecting to be quite likely an itinerant immigrant you are unusual. I really meant I couldn't understand why people who move say to Spain quite often seem to make no real effort to learn the language despite it being as far as they are aware a permanent move.

Yes, I quite agree with that. I do know some French, enough to get me an appointment at the doctors or directions to somewhere but anything more complex and my brain shuts down. I can also learn something one day and forgotten it the next. Serious illness a few years ago is to blame and it's quite frustrating at times.....for both myself and my husband!

 

[HKF]

People living in a foreign country without speaking the language are showing an absolute and complete disrespect to their hosts.

I hope no one sees me like that, although it's quite possible. I did have one lady receptionist at the hospital once snap in response to my "Desolee, je ne comprend pas", "Well, you could learn to speak French!" I felt like screaming, "No, I actually couldn't!!" but I just smiled and bit my tongue.

 

[Chris]

I can never understand people who move to another country and don't seem to make any effort to learn the language the same with people who come to the UK I actually think catering for other languages reduces the incentive to learn the language in the country you move to

Absolutely.

Dos cervaza por favor is a minimum

 

[Barriesimpson]

Absolutely.

Dos cervaza por favor is a minimum

Dos cervezas por favor, en todo caso

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[Yorick]

Dos cervezas por favor, en todo caso

First thing I learnt was..

Una jarra, y agua para mi perro

 

[enark]

People living in a foreign country without speaking the language are showing an absolute and complete disrespect to their hosts.

Um, I lived in Germany for 7 years, can just about order a beer or a bratty!

Had little interaction with the locals really.

 

[nicholsong]

Um, I lived in Germany for 7 years, can just about order a beer or a bratty!

Had little interaction with the locals really.

Same with me.

When I moved to Poland because Basia was tied to her Mother being here, I did not expect Mother to live another 11 years to 101.

Also she and her sons and Ds-in -Law all speak good English so it was a bit pointless to learn Polish for what I thought was a short period, especially when one is not working.

I studied Latin and Greek which gives one a base for most Western European languages and I have some ability in French and a little German. If I moved to Italy or Spain I think I could learn quite quickly, but Polish is far from all those languages.

 

[The Wino]

I wonder if the thread title ought to be changed to Brit buys £100k motorhome before checking he has the correct license to drive it in the country he has moved to.

 

[enark]

Same with me.

When I moved to Poland because Basia was tied to her Mother being here, I did not expect Mother to live another 11 years to 101.

Also she and her sons and Ds-in -Law all speak good English so it was a bit pointless to learn Polish for what I thought was a short period, especially when one is not working.

I studied Latin and Greek which gives one a base for most Western European languages and I have some ability in French and a little German. If I moved to Italy or Spain I think I could learn quite quickly, but Polish is far from all those languages.

First three years 9-11 was at school in Celle (other than chasing the german kids and abusing them, little need to converse)

Then two years in Herford, soon found that sprechensie English? was enough. In bars and clubs anyway…

And a couple of years in Krefeld.

Not really over keen on the Germans, so little wish to engage. (Its a history thing)

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[Widge]

I hope no one sees me like that, although it's quite possible. I did have one lady receptionist at the hospital once snap in response to my "Desolee, je ne comprend pas", "Well, you could learn to speak French!" I felt like screaming, "No, I actually couldn't!!" but I just smiled and bit my tongue.

We were in Spain last year at the checkout in Aldi, the girl on the till conversed in French, German and Dutch to people in the queue before us then she spoke English to us. Last time I was in Aldi in the UK I had enough trouble understanding the checkout girls English let alone any other language.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Same with me.

When I moved to Poland because Basia was tied to her Mother being here, I did not expect Mother to live another 11 years to 101.

Also she and her sons and Ds-in -Law all speak good English so it was a bit pointless to learn Polish for what I thought was a short period, especially when one is not working.

I studied Latin and Greek which gives one a base for most Western European languages and I have some ability in French and a little German. If I moved to Italy or Spain I think I could learn quite quickly, but Polish is far from all those languages.

I don't understand the structure of English language. So me trying to speak a Latin Language is so difficult.

I learned or did I learn or Learnt German at/in School ?

I learned French by Travel

I am learning Spanish or have been for 8 years and still struggle.

I was on the Brugge Aire a few weeks ago, went over a Spanish Family who needed help, panicked and said.... Hablas Ingles?

 

[Widge]

I don't understand the structure of English language. So me trying to speak a Latin Language is so difficult.

I learned or did I learn or Learnt German at/in School ?

I learned French by Travel

I am learning Spanish or have been for 8 years and still struggle.

I was on the Brugge Aire a few weeks ago, went over a Spanish Family who needed help, panicked and said.... Hablas Ingles?

When we were in Spain, we had a small problem and we called into a small camper repair place, my Spanish is pretty much non existant, but I did feel less embarrassed by having an option and asking if they spoke English or French, they spoke neither but we had a good chat via google.

 

[EuroTrotters]

When we were in Spain, we had a small problem and we called into a small camper repair place, my Spanish is pretty much non existant, but I did feel less embarrassed by having an option and asking if they spoke English or French, they spoke neither but we had a good chat via google.

To be fair, I have had a few phone call with Spanish people in Spain.

Examples :

Benidorm Blue Parking, Resolved.

Then I needed an Electrician to look at an issue with a pool pump. Very long conversation and we both understood and agreed.

But sometimes, I just panic

 

[Widge]

To be fair, I have had a few phone call with Spanish people in Spain.

Examples :

Benidorm Blue Parking, Resolved.

Then I needed an Electrician to look at an issue with a pool pump. Very long conversation and we both understood and agreed.

But sometimes, I just panic

I know what you mean, even after 18 years here in france, my french is no where near as good as it ought to be, and I can be conversing fine, the need a word I don't know and I compleatly lose my stride and the whole thing falls apart.

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[Charente16]

I exchanged my UK licence for a French one in 2012 and was refused my C1. At that time licences were issued by the various Department Prefectures, it was lottery then as to whether you kept the C1 catagory, or even needed to exchange your UK/EU licence as a French Resident. Charente Department did not require you to 'exchange' your licence but the Gendarmes did if you were naughty; which I was !

Since Centralization at Rennes it is commonly understood that a C1 cannot be exchanged unless the documentation exists to prove you have passed the necessary test for that catagory of vehicle.

A Storm in a Tea Cup by somebody who didn't do his homework before ordering his van.

 

[chaser]

Just a question, do all french people have to pass a test for over 3.5 do none of the older folk have it automatically?
Not excusing this bloke, as he's gone , follow the rules, that's it.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Just a question, do all french people have to pass a test for over 3.5 do none of the older folk have it automatically?
Not excusing this bloke, as he's gone , follow the rules, that's it.

Yes, they do

 

[jumartoo]

But sometimes, I just panic

I'm the same. I know, and understand a lot of Spanish. I was complemented yesterday on my understanding of Spanish when helping someone at a laundrette. However, when I come to speak it almost all goes out of my head. I did OK yesterday though

Martin, however is the total opposite, he can talk forever. Together we make a good team

 

[Widge]

Just a question, do all french people have to pass a test for over 3.5 do none of the older folk have it automatically?
Not excusing this bloke, as he's gone , follow the rules, that's it.

The decree of March 16, 1923 introduced different categories. Thus, the A license, issued to drivers over 18 years old, can only be used for the transport of people or vehicles over 3 tons if it bears a special mention.

So if there were grandfather rights, it would restrict it to people who are now 101 or more years old

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[The Wino]

The decree of March 16, 1923 introduced different categories. Thus, the A license, issued to drivers over 18 years old, can only be used for the transport of people or vehicles over 3 tons if it bears a special mention.

So if there were grandfather rights, it would restrict it to people who are now 101 or more years old

So basically the bloke in question wants to get a free pass to drive over 3.5t in a country where everyone else has to do an extra test and gets uppity when they won't give it him!

 

[Jerrywh]

The guy has done well to buy a new C1 La Strada for as little as €100,000...

Not strictly relevant but my father's licence was issued to him in the 1930s just because he requested it. No lessons or test or anything. And it entitled him to drive absolutely any vehicle ... road rollers, lorries, tracked vechicles etc. Also buses although from memory that entitlement was removed at tome point. Regulations do change over time!

 

[kingy58]

I speak both French and German from living and working in Europe for many years. While it's a bit rusty for the first few days of a visit I never resort to English even if the local starts speaking it back to me. The service always seems to go up a notch when you respect your surroundings!
Incidentally Microsoft SwiftKey Keyboard on an Android phone lets you type in one language and it translates on the fly into any other. Much easier than copy and paste into Google Translate.

 

[The Wino]

The guy has done well to buy a new C1 La Strada for as little as €100,000...

Not strictly relevant but my father's licence was issued to him in the 1930s just because he requested it. No lessons or test or anything. And it entitled him to drive absolutely any vehicle ... road rollers, lorries, tracked vechicles etc. Also buses although from memory that entitlement was removed at tome point. Regulations do change over time!

It's a difficult one do you make everyone come up to the new requirements or accept they can stay with the old ones. I think it's even more complicated in the US with different requirements for different states and I think you can get a medical waiver if you have the funds to get a statement that you are safe even if you don't meet the requirements. There was a recent article on the radio about people in the UK still driving legally on way over the number of points that would result in a disqualification money talks!

 

[Tantalus]

From https://www.connexionfrance.com/new...riton-unable-to-drive-100000-campervan/659224

French licence swap leaves Briton unable to drive €100,000 campervan​

He is taking his case to France’s rights defender​

View attachment 900776
A retired British man has taken a case to France’s rights defender because he is unable to use his new €100,000 La Strada campervan after swapping to a French licence.

Former IT worker Tim Hall, 68, who moved to Savoie in 2020, applied to exchange his UK licence, attaching a medical certificate to prove continued competency to drive heavier vehicles. However, the French licence he received lacked the heavy C and D categories.

Officials told him it is because he had been given these automatically with his driving licence – as was usual in the UK before 1997 – and France does not recognise categories acquired without a specific test.

He said: “I like to follow the Tour de France and wanted to be able to sleep overnight in the camping car. It is a German make, 6.4m, and cost over €100,000. I’m expecting delivery of it soon.”

UK/France licence agreement​

A UK/France agreement on licence swaps was signed in 2021 although no copy of the agreement has been made publicly available.

Under this, UK licences first issued before Brexit are essentially treated the same as EU licences. It states, among other points, that older UK licences must be swapped for a French one if they are nearing expiry, which was the case for Mr Hall.

The rule against categories acquired automatically is not stated on French official websites we consulted. They do list information that all categories of a UK licence are exchangeable.

Mr Hall’s last UK licence was in a standardised EU ‘credit card’ format, with the same letter categories used across the bloc, which might not be the case with old paper UK licences.

Taking a French C1 test would require 28 hours of lessons and sitting a theory test in French, which he does not wish to do as he believes the refusal is not justified by French or EU laws.

The Défenseur des Droits service, which he read about in The Connexion, has agreed to take up his case.

He said there was no notification of a potential issue during the swap application. Instead, it asked if he wanted to retain the categories and then requested a medical certificate.

“There is European case law that EU states must recognise validity of all categories of other EU countries’ licences,” he said, adding it is illogical that he could drive all over the EU on his UK licence but must lose categories to exchange it.

France’s driving authorities did not wish to comment.

I had a similar disappointment. I have a New Zealand car licence that is valid for up to 7 tons. When I got an International permit, it simply states that it is a car licence, so I imagine that would restrict the weight I am allowed to drive? I carry all the documentation regarding validity in NZ and hope that if ever I am found with my uk camper overweight, that at least I will have a valid licence.

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[DandJ]

People living in a foreign country without speaking the language are showing an absolute and complete disrespect to their hosts.

I'd put the word 'trying' in there. My wife and I have lived in France for nearly 2 yrs. We both struggle with the language. We both always have done, but we try. If they brought in a language test for visa/carte sejour extentions, one of us may fail it....not thru a lack of trying tho. (We manage just fine, can make ourselves understood, always attempt the language etc)

 

[Markman]

I'd put the word 'trying' in there. My wife and I have lived in France for nearly 2 yrs. We both struggle with the language. We both always have done, but we try. If they brought in a language test for visa/carte sejour extentions, one of us may fail it....not thru a lack of trying tho. (We manage just fine, can make ourselves understood, always attempt the language etc)

Worked in France and had great "conversations" from the get-go (I'd only done 2 years of one hour per week Alliance Francaise 15 years previously). Did a one week 1to1 intensive French course after a year and came home to tell my wife after the first day that I'd been informed that I only used the present tense! No-one had ever corrected me. Everyone had been happy to keep going.

So keep going. They don't care how bad your French is, they can generally work out what you mean and you are showing them respect.

 

[Katie516]

Well I'm happy for you. I exchanged my licence 200 years ago and the C1 was not included. I had no idea, as I was 21 and had no intention of driving trucks. Now, after all these years I realise I need it because 3.500kg is just not possible in any modern motorhome. However, as the European law has changed and been ratified by the European Government (??) class B will now allow up to 4.250kg. This amendment will enter law at the beginning of 2025 here in Spain. My other option is to exchange my Spanish licence for a British one, as they have assured me that all entitlements will be respected.

Of course 3.500kg is entirely possible. All depends on what you think you 'need'

 

[Barriesimpson]

Of course 3.500kg is entirely possible. All depends on what you think you 'need'

That's not quite true though, is it. I have 2 leisure batteries at probably 15kg each. Air conditioning unit, 25kg. Awning, maybe 20kg. Invertor, B2B etc. probably another 10kg. So another 85kg minimum on top of the running weight which, according to the documents, is 3.081. So add me - 90kg, my wife - 60kg, 4 bottles of wine - 4kg, a few tins of whatever - 5 kg, bottles of water - 7kg, half full water tank - 50kg, 2 gas bottles - 24kg, fuel - let's say half a tank (I don't run with full fuel - something you learn flying 4 seater aircraft) - 40kg to get a grand total of 3.422kg. Still no clothes added or mobile phones, tablets, food stuffs (bread, eggs, milk, juice, meat, veg, yoghurts etc). I weighed the van yesterday with half a tank of diesel, full water, no grey or black, a few provisions and me and the weight is dead on 3.500kg. So do I need to leave my wife at home?

 

[Chris]

That's not quite true though, is it. I have 2 leisure batteries at probably 15kg each. Air conditioning unit, 25kg. Awning, maybe 20kg. Invertor, B2B etc. probably another 10kg. So another 85kg minimum on top of the running weight which, according to the documents, is 3.081. So add me - 90kg, my wife - 60kg, 4 bottles of wine - 4kg, a few tins of whatever - 5 kg, bottles of water - 7kg, half full water tank - 50kg, 2 gas bottles - 24kg, fuel - let's say half a tank (I don't run with full fuel - something you learn flying 4 seater aircraft) - 40kg to get a grand total of 3.422kg. Still no clothes added or mobile phones, tablets, food stuffs (bread, eggs, milk, juice, meat, veg, yoghurts etc). I weighed the van yesterday with half a tank of diesel, full water, no grey or black, a few provisions and me and the weight is dead on 3.500kg. So do I need to leave my wife at home?

Yes and stick 5 or 6 packs of beer in

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