French licence swap leaves Briton unable to drive €100,000 campervan (3 Viewers)

[Widge]

Actually French law states that if you are a french resident and have a uk licence issued before 2021, you do not have to exchange it, unless you commit a traffic violation, at that point you will be required to exchange your uk licence for a french one so that any alterations needed becouse of the violation can be done.
When exchanging you are then governed by the rules for obtaining a french licence.

Of course if you go down the option of continuing to use your uk licence, you cannot renew it as an ex pat, it is also illigal to use sombody elses address, on the renewal form it also says this.



‘I declare that I am resident in the UK and understand that it is a criminal offence to make a false declaration to get a driving licence and that to do so can lead to prosecution and a maximum penalty of up to two years’ imprisonment. I also understand that failing to provide information is an offence that could lead to prosecution and a fine up to £1,000.’


But there is no point in renewing it as it will then be issued later than 2021.

The uk government website does say that the licence will still be valid even if it is passed the renewal date, but how many police in various countries understand that i dont know.

 

[HKF]

...

The uk government website does say that the licence will still be valid even if it is passed the renewal date, but how many police in various countries understand that i dont know.

Do you have a link to this, please?

 

[nicholsong]

The stipulation that a licence does not have to be exchanged if issued before 2021 disadvantages anyone who had to get new licence at 70 after that date.

 

[Widge]

Do you have a link to this, please?

Sorry there is so much wrong information on this subject, i think i must have reposted without fully checking, it must have been either old info or refering to non photo id licenses.

The government website clearly states that you do have to renew a photo license.

Back in 2007 i wrote to Connections newspaper who had said in an article about not needing to bother to change your licence, i quoted the fine for not having the correct address, and possible fine and imprisonment for providing incorrect information.

Two months later my letter and response was published.

They said that they had contacted the licensing authority, and the response from them had been. Technically that is correct but they thought that it was very unlikely that anyone would be prosecuted for it, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Next day I applied for exchange for a french licence.

 

[HKF]

The uk government website does say that the licence will still be valid even if it is passed the renewal date,

The government website clearly states that you do have to renew a photo license.

So, what's the situation with a paper licence, please? Does it remain valid after the expiry date? Does it have to be renewed?

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[Spriddler]

perhaps 1 in 1000 will ever overload their car...it's completely different

Quite. Cars are designed for the weight of 4 or 5 large (seat-belted) people plus their luggage and a roof rack. Few cars travel with all seats occupied, especially by 'large' people as often it's two adults and two or three kids.

 

[Widge]

So, what's the situation with a paper licence, please? Does it remain valid after the expiry date? Does it have to be renewed?

Sorry, i really don't know the answer to that one.

 

[HKF]

Sorry, i really don't know the answer to that one.

OK, no probs

 

[Widge]

Another thing i have come across on another camper site, (so always double check).

It appears that a person who has an inherited C1 is not considered to be a valid licence holder from the point of being a co passenger to a learner driver that is preparing to take a C1 test.

For example, your wife cannot drive a C1 vehicle with L plates with you as a passenger if you only have an inherited C1.

See post #10

C1 provisional licence

www.motorhomefacts.com

 

[Barriesimpson]

Another thing i have come across on another camper site, (so always double check).

It appears that a person who has an inherited C1 is not considered to be a valid licence holder from the point of being a co passenger to a learner driver that is preparing to take a C1 test.

For example, your wife cannot drive a C1 vehicle with L plates with you as a passenger if you only have an inherited C1.

See post #10

C1 provisional licence

www.motorhomefacts.com

That does not surprise me to be honest, and makes sense too.

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[nicholsong]

Another thing i have come across on another camper site, (so always double check).

It appears that a person who has an inherited C1 is not considered to be a valid licence holder from the point of being a co passenger to a learner driver that is preparing to take a C1 test.

For example, your wife cannot drive a C1 vehicle with L plates with you as a passenger if you only have an inherited C1.

See post #10

C1 provisional licence

www.motorhomefacts.com

I started to think 'How would anyone know the passenger's C1 was inherited?', as there is no note on the C1 line, but I then realised that the C1E has the restricted towing weight of 8250kg which gives the game away - at least to UK police but maybe not to foreign police.

 

[nicholsong]

Does the French course for the C1 licence not give any credit for having held a UK C1(albeit on grandfather rights) and having driven >3.5t vehicles many of '000s of kms, including say 20,000kms in France? Many of those kms may have been driven professionally.

 

[Widge]

Does the French course for the C1 licence not give any credit for having held a UK C1(albeit on grandfather rights) and having driven >3.5t vehicles many of '000s of kms, including say 20,000kms in France? Many of those kms may have been driven professionally.

Not that I am aware of, in fact I tried to lookup the same for the UK, and couldn't find anything about it there either.

But to be fair, I am not actually sure exactly what you have to do to get one anyway, if it is like a normal driving course, where you train with an instructor untill the point he feels you are ready for the test, then presumably any previous experience will speed up that process, making it cheaper, but if you have to do so many hours before the test, then previous experience has little effect on the cost.

 

[Lenny HB]

So, what's the situation with a paper licence, please? Does it remain valid after the expiry date? Does it have to be renewed?

Valid until you are 70 or expiry date then needs renewing.
Green one only valid in the UK, pink EU one used to be valid in Europe but nor sure since BX.
If you drive abroad best to get a photo licence.

 

[HKF]

Valid until you are 70 or expiry date then needs renewing.
Green one only valid in the UK, pink EU one used to be valid in Europe but nor sure since BX.
If you drive abroad best to get a photo licence.

We both have the old paper licences, with C1. They're perfectly legal in the UK and in Europe, since we moved to France before Brexit, under the WARP agreement, so no need to get photo licences. We're both good until 70 when we'll need to exchange them to French licences but with no test necessary (again, due to the WARP agreement). The only thing we need to ensure is that we get the C1 transferred, that will then require a yearly medical.

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[Widge]

We both have the old paper licences, with C1. They're perfectly legal in the UK and in Europe, since we moved to France before Brexit, under the WARP agreement, so no need to get photo licences. We're both good until 70 when we'll need to exchange them to French licences but with no test necessary (again, due to the WARP agreement). The only thing we need to ensure is that we get the C1 transferred, that will then require a yearly medical.

Also dont get any traffic violations, or you will be forced to exchange it, also if it is an inherited C1 dont be surprised if they wont let you add it onto your exchanged license. It appears that since brexit, they often need proof that you passed your C1 test.

 

[HKF]

Also dont get any traffic violations, or you will be forced to exchange it, also if it is an inherited C1 dont be surprised if they wont let you add it onto your exchanged license. It appears that since brexit, they often need proof that you passed your C1 test.

Yes, traffic violations would be the annoyance! With the C1, they must add it for us as part of the WARP agreement. We both have Withdrawal Agreement Residence Permits (WARPs), so benefit from the Brexit rules. The rules are very different for people who became resident after 31st December 2020.

 

[Widge]

Yes, traffic violations would be the annoyance! With the C1, they must add it for us as part of the WARP agreement. We both have Withdrawal Agreement Residence Permits (WARPs), so benefit from the Brexit rules. The rules are very different for people who became resident after 31st December 2020.

Apparentlly even before brexit some departments would only transfer a C1 category if you can show that you have taken a C1 test, and would not accept an inherited C1. So bear that in mind.

 

[HKF]

Apparentlly even before brexit some departments would only transfer a C1 category if you can show that you have taken a C1 test, and would not accept an inherited C1. So bear that in mind.

The British Embassy have already addressed that one, since the prefectures cannot go against the WARP agreement rules. There was much confusion on many subjects shortly after Brexit but many of them have been sorted out since.

 

[Coolcats]

How hard is it to take an actual C1 surely it can’t be that hard just like car you go forwards backwards turn left and turn right.

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[Widge]

The British Embassy have already addressed that one, since the prefectures cannot go against the WARP agreement rules. There was much confusion on many subjects shortly after Brexit but many of them have been sorted out since.

This is what it currently says on the uk government website.

Living in France

Information for British citizens moving to or living in France, including guidance on residency, healthcare and driving.

www.gov.uk

Expiration of driving licence

If your licence has expired, or has less than 6 months’ validity remaining, you must exchange it for a French licence. You do not need to take a driving test to exchange categories that were awarded with a test. If you have categories on your licence that you did not take a test for, these will not appear on your French licence. If you wish to retain them, you will need to pass the relevant French test.


It specifically says you will not retain any categories, not obtained by a test, this includes the C1 that was a freebee with older licences.

The freebee C1 is not a full C1 it is a C1 that has restrictions even in the UK.

The french are obliged to exchange a UK licence for a french one, with all its categories like for like, with associated documentation to show that you are eligible.

The french do not have a restricted version of a C1, so they cannot exchange like for like, and to issue a full C1 would be granting you additional benifits that even in the UK you would not get without a test.

 

[CAB96]

This is what it currently says on the uk government website.

Living in France

Information for British citizens moving to or living in France, including guidance on residency, healthcare and driving.

www.gov.uk

Expiration of driving licence

If your licence has expired, or has less than 6 months’ validity remaining, you must exchange it for a French licence. You do not need to take a driving test to exchange categories that were awarded with a test. If you have categories on your licence that you did not take a test for, these will not appear on your French licence. If you wish to retain them, you will need to pass the relevant French test.


It specifically says you will not retain any categories, not obtained by a test, this includes the C1 that was a freebee with older licences.

The freebee C1 is not a full C1 it is a C1 that has restrictions even in the UK.

The french are obliged to exchange a UK licence for a french one, with all its categories like for like, with associated documentation to show that you are eligible.

The french do not have a restricted version of a C1, so they cannot exchange like for like, and to issue a full C1 would be granting you additional benifits that even in the UK you would not get without a test.

And if you read the guidance you have linked to, you will read the phrase

"Some parts of this guide only apply if you have been living in France since before 1 January 2021."

The Withdrawal Agreement trumps any Gov.UK guidance.

 

[HKF]

This is what it currently says on the uk government website.

Living in France

Information for British citizens moving to or living in France, including guidance on residency, healthcare and driving.

www.gov.uk

Expiration of driving licence

If your licence has expired, or has less than 6 months’ validity remaining, you must exchange it for a French licence. You do not need to take a driving test to exchange categories that were awarded with a test. If you have categories on your licence that you did not take a test for, these will not appear on your French licence. If you wish to retain them, you will need to pass the relevant French test.


It specifically says you will not retain any categories, not obtained by a test, this includes the C1 that was a freebee with older licences.

The freebee C1 is not a full C1 it is a C1 that has restrictions even in the UK.

The french are obliged to exchange a UK licence for a french one, with all its categories like for like, with associated documentation to show that you are eligible.

The french do not have a restricted version of a C1, so they cannot exchange like for like, and to issue a full C1 would be granting you additional benifits that even in the UK you would not get without a test.

That's the law as it stands now, since Brexit. The rules written into the WARP agreement are different.

 

[HKF]

And if you read the guidance you have linked to, you will read the phrase

"Some parts of this guide only apply if you have been living in France since before 1 January 2021."

The Withdrawal Agreement trumps any Gov.UK guidance.

Absolutely!

 

[Widge]

And if you read the guidance you have linked to, you will read the phrase

"Some parts of this guide only apply if you have been living in France since before 1 January 2021."

The Withdrawal Agreement trumps any Gov.UK guidance.

But as i also said The french are obliged to exchange a UK licence for a french one, with all its categories like for like, they do not have a restricted version of a C1 licence category, so cannot do like for like, and cannot issue a full C1 giving the holder additional privileges without associted test. and why should they?

This is exactly the problem the person had in the original newspaper article that started this thead.

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[HKF]

But as i also said The french are obliged to exchange a UK licence for a french one, with all its categories like for like, they do not have a restricted version of a C1 licence category, so cannot do like for like, and cannot issue a full C1 giving the holder additional privileges without associted test. and why should they?

This is exactly the problem the person had in the original newspaper article that started this thead.

Many people have and will continue to have their C1 transferred under the WARP agreement rules, providing they meet the criteria. Perhaps the person featured in the article didn't meet the criteria? I don't know.

 

[Barriesimpson]

How hard is it to take an actual C1 surely it can’t be that hard just like car you go forwards backwards turn left and turn right.

It's not a question of difficulty, rather price.

 

[Widge]

I think this says it all.

Campervans: many UK drivers will need to sit French driving test

People living in France will lose right to drive larger vans, campervans and minibuses when they swap licence if they did not sit a specific test in the UK

www.connexionfrance.com

 

[Widge]

I think this says it all.

Campervans: many UK drivers will need to sit French driving test

People living in France will lose right to drive larger vans, campervans and minibuses when they swap licence if they did not sit a specific test in the UK

www.connexionfrance.com

In case anyone cannot see the whole article, I have attached it as a PDF.

Part of me is regretting letting my C1 lapse, although i still cant imagine I would ever use it, I exchanged my licence in 2007, even though I had receved warnings about not exchanging it or loose categories from various brits around the country, but I had no issues, and put it down to people not researching it properly before aplying , but was very surprised when I discovered how much more it gave me. And more recently discovered that it appeared that it depended on which department and prefecture, whether you were required to provide evidence that you were entitled to a C1.
This is an anomaly created by the uk, I still say that when the licences changed to normalise across europe, a cheap conversion course should have been offered to anyone wishing to keep the C1 on the licence.