French emissions fine - Not what you think

[Spriddler]

Mentioned a fortnight ago with 105 replies........

Broken Link Removed

French drivers plan legal challenge to ‘massive’ London zone penalties

Drivers of French-registered cars report shock at receiving fines – in some cases for thousands of euros – for having entered the city’s low emission zones

www.connexionfrance.com

 

[Trevor Wbm]

We're off to Amsterdam tomorrow evening. Ooh, I thought, I wonder if it has a LEZ? So I checked.
It has, and the site we're using is in it but you can buy exemption to get to and from the site, on line for 10 Euros.
Potential fine thus avoided.

 

[Lenny HB]

A lot of people don't realise you have top register online for Antwerp & Brussels.

 

[gus-lopez]

Remember sanef the French company run the Dartford tunnel I would imagine they have access to many databases

yes as I posted previously a friend of mine was amazed to get a French speeding fine for a car which is her son's & V5 in his name. Only place it could have come from was that lot as she registered it for him on her account.

 

[tribalbrit]

Makes you wonder what their pupils learnt.

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[Stealaway]

A lot of people don't realise you have top rgister online for Antwerp & Brussels.

Although it appears to be free their web vehicle registration site doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

Slim naar Antwerpen

www.slimnaarantwerpen.be

The Brussels one seem to be working

 

[Lenny HB]

Although it appears to be free their web vehicle registration site doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

Slim naar Antwerpen

www.slimnaarantwerpen.be

The Brussels one seem to be working

I think if you register for one city it covers the other.

 

[iandsm]

Have you looked who was mayor when lez was originally introduced!

BJ might have been when it was first introduced but now when it was ramped up to the present insane proportions

 

[SpeedyDux]

When all these countries have a Central Bank Digital Currency, fines and charges will be taken from your account automatically whether you like it or not.

Keep using cash when you can.

 

[Dave Scadding]

And yes, the French do have access to DVLA records.

Obviously they do, they have received a fine, so they know where they live.

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[royandsharont]

I think if you register for one city it covers the other.

Looks like this may not be the case as there are links from the Brussels site to the Antwerp & Ghent sites. I’ve just registered my PVC, Class M1, with Brussels and Ghent, who incidentally wanted my MIRO rather than max weight which I had on my CofC, but the Antwerp site says it is having technical difficulties and cannot register anyone at the moment. All free of charge so far.

 

[Lenny HB]

That's a pain if you have to register for each town seperately.

 

[nicholsong]

Looks like this may not be the case as there are links from the Brussels site to the Antwerp & Ghent sites. I’ve just registered my PVC, Class M1, with Brussels and Ghent, who incidentally wanted my MIRO rather than max weight which I had on my CofC, but the Antwerp site says it is having technical difficulties and cannot register anyone at the moment. All free of charge so far.

That's a pain if you have to register for each twon seperately.

Add to that what the Spanish have just done to give each town with a population over 50,000 autonomy to set up, or not, their own zones, permanent or only for high pollution levels.

It is becoming a 'Bugger's Muddle'

Hopefully the multiplicity will cause the whole thing to implode and will have to be replaced by some co-ordinated system.

 

[Lenny HB]

Add to that what the Spanish have just done to give each town with a population over 50,000 autonomy to set up, or not, their own zones, permanent or only for high pollution levels.

It is becoming a 'Bugger's Muddle'

Hopefully the multiplicity will cause the whole thing to implode and will have to be replaced by some co-ordinated system.

Spain looks like it's OK as I believe with foreign register vehicles they accept their emission stickers.

 

[VXman]

But when I travel abroad and see an unfamiliar road sign I look it up, I also check for any stickers I may need such as crit air or any motorway vignettes so your ignorance is no reason.

So do I - if I can and have time - travelling at 50mph it can be difficult to take it all in and remember. Anyway, I have looked things up sometimes and still remain none he wiser. They do not always translate well and info can be hard to find.

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[ChrisAndEmma]

Only if it is UK registered or you have registered your foreign license plate with TFL.

I think this is true and I’d suggest the OP’s friends carefully check what their fines are for and that they are correct for the actual emissions category of their van. I checked the TfL pages recently and it took a while to be sure what category our van fitted into. From memory the LEZ and ULEZ have different fine structures and the LEZ breaches for over 3.5t were the sort of money the OP quotes. Could be that the database systems can share registered owner details but might not be compatible for the full vehicle details.

 

[PaulOH]

The law is an axx.. and our axxes will end up in the slammer (or with something approximating to that €quarter million fine) if we don't get our axxes in gear and work out what each region's rules are.

I cannot comment on the London area or any other country besides Spain - specifically Catalunya - but in the old days it was the yellow headlights & replacement bulbs for France, the vignette for Switzerland (still applies), specific collision insurance for Germany, snow chains for Austria etc, etc - this is the brave new world guys!!

I agree with everything that has been said about the confounding and confusing rules - it'll only get worse before it gets better - and if you have a van more than 20 years old, it's maybe never going to get better.

Free movement within Europe may be true for people, but not necessarily if they're using their own vehicles!!

It reminds me of the way in which you can go so easily wrong with the different charges and fees that can be applied when you take that 'too good to be true' very cheap flight offer - yes, it is too good to be true and the omission of certain information at the right time leads to assumptions that catch you out!

Right now, and if there is sharing of vehicle registration details, I am very surprised the French people mentioned by the OP are getting away with it. In Dublin, there is a large and heavily-used barrier free toll bridge on the M50 ring road, which you pay for within a set time period online or in a shop. Since the mid-20teens, debt collection agencies have been pursuing unpaid tolls and accruing fees owed by Northern Irish drivers (UK-registered vehicles) using details supplied through a cross-border deal - has anyone been caught by that one?

I imagine there is some legality that has been invoked by the French lawyers to delay the process - however this is contrary to the EU's overall stated policy objective that the polluter pays when it comes to tolls and emission-limited zones. I would be surprised if they won their case given the current climate (change).

There are other recent threads on the issue of emission control zones and I believe this is going to become something that everyone needs to be concerned with soon.

 

[The Wino]

It's the modern world. As much as people may hark back to times when you could pollute as much as you like and it cost next to nothing I can't see were ever going back there. The best we could hope for would be integration with the toll system and a box in the vehicle linked to automatically pay or indicate if were excluded

 

[dunnah01]

Cheaper to use false plates nowadays

 

[SpeedyDux]

The law is an axx.. and our axxes will end up in the slammer (or with something approximating to that €quarter million fine) if we don't get our axxes in gear and work out what each region's rules are.

I cannot comment on the London area or any other country besides Spain - specifically Catalunya - but in the old days it was the yellow headlights & replacement bulbs for France, the vignette for Switzerland (still applies), specific collision insurance for Germany, snow chains for Austria etc, etc - this is the brave new world guys!!

I agree with everything that has been said about the confounding and confusing rules - it'll only get worse before it gets better - and if you have a van more than 20 years old, it's maybe never going to get better.

Free movement within Europe may be true for people, but not necessarily if they're using their own vehicles!!

It reminds me of the way in which you can go so easily wrong with the different charges and fees that can be applied when you take that 'too good to be true' very cheap flight offer - yes, it is too good to be true and the omission of certain information at the right time leads to assumptions that catch you out!

Right now, and if there is sharing of vehicle registration details, I am very surprised the French people mentioned by the OP are getting away with it. In Dublin, there is a large and heavily-used barrier free toll bridge on the M50 ring road, which you pay for within a set time period online or in a shop. Since the mid-20teens, debt collection agencies have been pursuing unpaid tolls and accruing fees owed by Northern Irish drivers (UK-registered vehicles) using details supplied through a cross-border deal - has anyone been caught by that one?

I imagine there is some legality that has been invoked by the French lawyers to delay the process - however this is contrary to the EU's overall stated policy objective that the polluter pays when it comes to tolls and emission-limited zones. I would be surprised if they won their case given the current climate (change).

There are other recent threads on the issue of emission control zones and I believe this is going to become something that everyone needs to be concerned with soon.

It's a conspiracy!

The powers that be are going to ratchet up the pressure on marginal motorists, followed by average motorists, until they can no longer afford cars as personal transport. Where will that leave the cost of motorhoming?

See what they are actually implementing, and what they are discussing for our future:

Expanding and multiplying LEZs and CAZs,
diesels banned from city centre streets (Bristol),
"15 minute city" ghettos (being trialled in Oxford and Canterbury),
escalating taxes on road fuel,
pay-per-mile road charging is still on the agenda,
individual carbon allowances are under consideration (energy rationing by another name)

This list is not exhaustive. What else is on the horizon? Labour for example say they want to phase out fossil fuels completely by 2035. Proposals are being discussed to close all the UK's major airports, and allow only some smaller private airports to operate (basically only private jets will be allowed in that future scenario, and under current EU proposals they will be also exempt from carbon taxes).

If you think that BEVs are going to be exempt in the medium to long term, think again.

Did we really vote for all this? It is going to take a Peasants' Revolt to stop this trend. Get your yellow gilet and prepare to march.

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[ChrisAndEmma]

It's the modern world.

Yes - it is the modern world sadly: Top down policy which does not stand up to critical scrutiny or appraisal, imposed without democratic mandate, cheerled by a vocal but misinformed minority and amplified and reinforced by a media machine that is about propaganda rather than public interest journalism!

Ok - Rant over!!

 

[The Wino]

Yes - it is the modern world sadly: Top down policy which does not stand up to critical scrutiny or appraisal, imposed without democratic mandate, cheerled by a vocal but misinformed minority and amplified and reinforced by a media machine that is about propaganda rather than public interest journalism!

Ok - Rant over!!

I think you forgot to add " in my view". I actually think there is a lot of support for emissions and climate control measures in general but probably amongst a different demographic to motorhome ownership.

 

[ChrisAndEmma]

I think you forgot to add " in my view". I actually think there is a lot of support for emissions and climate control measures in general but probably amongst a different demographic to motorhome ownership.

No - I didn’t forget that. On air pollution there are multiple official sources which show that air pollution is by and large a solved problem. Most people who believe the alarmist narrative of “toxic air” have never seen or looked for these official sources and the media does all it can to ignore them. I don’t have time now, but at the weekend, if people are still interested in this topic, I’ll put some starter details up with some references. Sadly another feature of the modern world is one has to check source material carefully, always investigate the counter case and weigh matters up based on what one finds. One should also resist passing on top down messages as fact without checking this is the case.

 

[gus-lopez]

Cheaper to use false plates nowadays

No if caught the list of offences is quite long.
far better to use no number plates when the offence is only a C&U offence witha fine of 60/100 pounds , no points on your licence & 7 days to "rectify the offence"

 

[ChrisAndEmma]

No if caught the list of offences is quite long.
far better to use no number plates when the offence is only a C&U offence witha fine of 60/100 pounds , no points on your licence & 7 days to "rectify the offence"

Interesting- does that explain why so many supercars appear to have plates missing?

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[SpeedyDux]

Interesting- does that explain why so many supercars appear to have plates missing?

It might be the case that they won't show up on ANPR cameras, that are linked to the MIB database. That means not flagged up as uninsured. Or untaxed. Unless spotted by CCTV or a police car they will not be stopped for a chat. My 2d worth.

In some UK cities it is popular for young men to hire a supercar for a day to impress their friends. Apparently they can buy one day's insurance. When they crash, that's good material for the tabloids.

 

[Odd-no-more]

It might have been infringing the Congestion Zone Area which will result in immediate fines if you have not paid in advance. If the vehicle is compliant as far as LEZ and ULEZ are concerned then you do not need to register the system recognises that fact and you won't get any fines.

If only that was true

 

[Odd-no-more]

Cheaper to use false plates nowadays

Apparently a lot of Londoners do take that route, see how many drive in bus lanes and through the restricted zones

 

[Puddleduck]

Living in Scotland we, and many of our neighbours rarely go anywhere near London. Although I know about emission zones many do not. I had to tell one of my neighbours about the Dartford Crossing charges and how to pay. With heavy traffic, fog and searching for direction signs the charge notice was not taken on board - well how to pay didn't register.

Also if paying at a pay point check your registration plate has been correctly recorded.

I agree that a plate just saying "C" isn't an obvious sign that a motorist is entering a special zone - especially for a non-native English speaker. It could mean almost anything from parking restrictions to ??

 

[iandsm]

Obviously they do, they have received a fine, so they know where they live.

I thought that was what I said.

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