For Full-timers restricted by the Schengen 90/180 rule.

[spongebob]

Your understanding in this matter spitfire is exemplary

 

[EuroTrotters]

So, lets say a UK Citizen becomes a Spanish resident.

How long can they return to the UK for?
Do they keep a UK Passport?
I assume they get a Spanish ID Card?

 

[Boringfrog]

So, lets say a UK Citizen becomes a Spanish resident.

How long can they return to the UK for?
Do they keep a UK Passport?
I assume they get a Spanish ID Card?

Surely 90/180.....?

 

[nicholsong]

For several of us living in EU countries there is the limit of 90/180 days in the rest of Schengen, but it would be difficult for the authorities to determine when that started, since one's time in one's host country does not count.

ANPR would not do it because it does not identify who is in the vehicle at the time.

As for use of debit/credit cards I personally only carry cash when I am touring in Europe.

I would not be touring for more than 90 days in one trip, but may come up against that limit before 180 days. Even then I would have difficulty remembering exact dates I crossed out of and returned to the host country on trips to Germany/France and then several 3-4 day trips to Slowakia, with no stamped dates to refer to.

If stopped one could just give dates which fit the criteria and let them sort it out. one cannot be expected to produce receipts for every day of the year and anyway most till receipts are unreadable after a few weeks.

What are the sanctions for an EU Resident? A fine, yes. Thrown out of EU - is there a provision for withdrawing Residency permit for an overstay offence in another EU state?

I think it will be ignored for anyone with any form of Residency in a EU state.

No doubt some will argue against those lines.

Geoff

 

[EuroTrotters]

Surely 90/180.....?

But the UK will not be part of the EU and is not part of Shengen ?

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[nicholsong]

So, lets say a UK Citizen becomes a Spanish resident.

How long can they return to the UK for?
Do they keep a UK Passport?
I assume they get a Spanish ID Card?

Trev

A British Citizen has a right to stay in the UK for as long as he/she wants and has the right to work and do anything else. One may breach the host residency requirements if one is absent for more than a certain time and lose one's residency there.

Anyone can retain a UK passport while living in the EU.

Geoff

 

[spitfire]

I believe once ‘permanent’ residency is obtained, it is anticipated that you will indeed be exempt from the 90/180 as per citizens. However this is still under negotiation according to the U.K. embassy in Lisbon.

The confusion may arise for expats differing between types of residency! ( yes, there are two types, but they are the same, but may affect the future)

Here in Portugal, there’s temporary and permanent, however, that actually only actually applies to the physical certificate, the initial one is valid for 5 years and is referred to as temporary, and as long as you satisfy the immigration rules during those 5 years (ie. don’t leave, or abuse the system by ‘living’ in the uk and spending more than 3 months at your holiday home ) then you have to apply for your ‘permanent‘ status, and a new certificate. However, once you have ’residency’, you have it! But again, it is said you would need the ‘permanent’ status to benefit from not being subject to the 90/180. In other words, not until after your first five years.
........clear as mud

France permanent only when you have been 5 years and on production of copious paperwork such as proof of Address , 5 years tax returns, health care provision etc. Your residence card is for 10 years although it says permanent ! You need to renew the photo lol In October it is a straight exchange but if your card is for less than 10 years then more paperwork will be required .

 

[Badknee]

I thought the very last sentence more important.
View attachment 421922

If you read it again we’re spending 90 days in Spain and leave from Santander on the 31st March. This year doesn’t count according to the Spanish consulate website.

 

[Badknee]

So exactly what IS the agreed arrangement then?

According to that sentence there isn’t one yet after 31st Dec 2020 and could revert to 90 in 90 out?

 

[BreweryDave]

I think it will be ignored for anyone with any form of Residency in a EU state

Confirmation bias notwithstanding......I think you’re right

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[spitfire]

Your understanding in this matter spitfire is exemplary

As I have lived in France for 17 years and have watched all aspects of the Withdrawal Agreement because obviously has an effect on our life here maybe . Also with a daughter with Australian nationality I know she has to leave Australia on her aussie passport and return in that passport . She enters Europe on her U.K. passport and has to leave on her U.K. passport . I doubt she will renew her U.K. passport as expensive and after B offers her no more advantages than her Aussie one . ie 90/180 on both passports

 

[Littlewheels]

If you read it again we’re spending 90 days in Spain and leave from Santander on the 31st March. This year doesn’t count according to the Spanish consulate website.

We’re doing exactly the same or maybe a change if things are not as stated and the 90/180 is relaxed in some way.

 

[Boringfrog]

But the UK will not be part of the EU and is not part of Shengen ?

So can EU residents come to the UK for more than 90 days?

 

[spitfire]

So can EU residents come to the UK for more than 90 days?

You have look at the difference between a resident and a national . If you are a European national with only a European passport then the rule 90/180 works both ways . If you are a resident if an EU country with a U.K. passport then it doesn’t apply . Depends on your passport as per the situation of my daughter in #71

 

[gus-lopez]

So, lets say a UK Citizen becomes a Spanish resident.

How long can they return to the UK for?
Do they keep a UK Passport?
I assume they get a Spanish ID Card?

1) up to 5 years before losing the right to permanent residency** only after you have been here 5 years & have 'permanent residency** otherwise it is 2 years
2)Yes
3) If applying now before the end of the transition period then yes but it will only have a validity of 5 years.
After one year in spain you are classed as 'permanent' but not permanently permanent. This does not happen until 5 years have elapsed from original date.
During years 2 to 5 you cannot be out of spain for 2 years consecutively.
After 5 years you can exchabge your card for a new one as you are now permamently permanent & get a card for 10 years.
Now you can be out of spain for a maximum of 5 years consecutively.

So can EU residents come to the UK for more than 90 days?

if they are British citizens or hold 'permanent right of abode' then yes they can do what they want up to a maximum of 6 months consecutively. If they leave after 6 months less 1 day & then return the clock starts again.
** BUT if you have a foreign vehicle & leave after 6 months although the clock starts again for the person/s it does not for the vehicle & that has to stay out for another 6 months..

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[Badknee]

We’re doing exactly the same or maybe a change if things are not as stated and the 90/180 is relaxed in some way.

I think all the Med countries would love to extend Brit stays ‘cos Covid has nearly bankrupted them this year

 

[EuroTrotters]

1) up to 5 years before losing the right to permanent residency** only after you have been here 5 years & have 'permanent residency** otherwise it is 2 years
2)Yes
3) If applying now before the end of the transition period then yes but it will only have a validity of 5 years.
After one year in spain you are classed as 'permanent' but not permanently permanent. This does not happen until 5 years have elapsed from original date.
During years 2 to 5 you cannot be out of spain for 2 years consecutively.
After 5 years you can exchabge your card for a new one as you are now permamently permanent & get a card for 10 years.
Now you can be out of spain for a maximum of 5 years consecutively.

if they are British citizens or hold 'permanent right of abode' then yes they can do what they want up to a maximum of 6 months consecutively. If they leave after 6 months less 1 day & then return the clock starts again.
** BUT if you have a foreign vehicle & leave after 6 months although the clock starts again for the person/s it does not for the vehicle & that has to stay out for another 6 months..

May I ask if you know about driving licenses GL?.

I have grandfather over 3.5t rights.

if I swap to Spanish, does it drop to under 3.5t?

thanks for your wealth of knowledge as a always

 

[Northernraider]

Not sure when that was written but freedom of movement was agreed in the Withdrawal Agreement and the only outstanding thing is trade agreement

But still there are 17million odd hopefuls waiting on a grand revelation

 

[Northernraider]

There are no borders between Schengin countries,,BUSBY.

Hmm there are in some places, I went through ones in and out of Andorra and Switzerland

 

[nicholsong]

Hmm there are in some places, I went through ones in and out of Andorra and Switzerland

Those may have been for customs checks not immigration. This because both countries are not EU Meembers and their agreements have some quirks on goods and taxes.

Geoff

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[jumartoo]

May I ask if you know about driving licenses GL?.

I have grandfather over 3.5t rights.

if I swap to Spanish, does it drop to under 3.5t?

thanks for your wealth of knowledge as a always

When we changed our licences Martin kept his Grandfather rights. I lost mine (I could have queried it but I didn't cos I wouldn't "ever" use it).

If you go to do a change, check what they put down, and make sure you have all the ones you need).

 

[gus-lopez]

May I ask if you know about driving licenses GL?.

I have grandfather over 3.5t rights.

if I swap to Spanish, does it drop to under 3.5t?

thanks for your wealth of knowledge as a always

No you retain them.
I know People have stated that you lose them in Portugal but under the EU directive that is illegal. You should retain them but at the 8,25 MTw limit rather than the 12T you have if you have actually taken a test

 

[busby]

Hmm there are in some places, I went through ones in and out of Andorra and Switzerland

But neither of those are in the EU. BUSBY.

 

[BreweryDave]

No you retain them.
I know People have stated that you lose them in Portugal but under the EU directive that is illegal. You should retain them but at the 8,25 MTw limit rather than the 12T you have if you have actually taken a test

It’s as illegal as the import tax they charge on matriculation, but they still do it!
Here, you lose your C1 and anything else you haven’t passed a test for.
The only saving grace is that under the Class B car licence, you can actually drive a MOTORHOME up to 4250kg

 

[Coolcats]

Have you ever watched the 'Border Control' TV programmes?

No way would this get past the 'officials' and you'd probably be investigated much more thoroughly than normal thus taking more time and you'd be stuck answering loads of questions, then, if they find you've done it for 'naughty' reasons, such as being an overstayer you can expect a fine and a ban for a number of years ... is it worth it?

Interesting, I travelled to Southern Ireland with a guy from New Zealand, he should have had his passport with him (he had forgotten it ! We got through customs no problem and the same on the return flight. Where we lucky I guess we were an whilst I would not advocate it it does happen

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[2x2camper]

Interesting, I travelled to Southern Ireland with a guy from New Zealand, he should have had his passport with him (he had forgotten it ! We got through customs no problem and the same on the return flight. Where we lucky I guess we were an whilst I would not advocate it it does happen

You don't need a passport to go to Southern Ireland from the UK

 

[Coolcats]

You don't need a passport to go to Southern Ireland from the UK

At the customs desk you may well be asked for identification, such as a Driving licence or passport a New Zeland national would have issues at this point.

 

[barsteward]

Thanks to the OP for an interesting topic.

I am still very confused by it all.

But I guess I am one of those people who cannot grasp simple things.....

Still digesting

You and me too Your not alone

 

[gus-lopez]

Here, you lose your C1 and anything else you haven’t passed a test for.

I suppose they must contact dvla & ask as to whether a test has been passed ?

You don't need a passport to go to Southern Ireland from the UK

Yes, unfortunately, & something that should have been stopped 50 years ago.

 

[Reallyretired]

The bit about taking dogs abroad is still not settled. The .gov information is two years old and it looks still unknown what the situation will be next year. Presumably still not agreed, and probably won't be in time for leaving. Probably a low priority, though not for us.

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