For Full-timers restricted by the Schengen 90/180 rule.

[Minxy]

Not sure when that was written but freedom of movement was agreed in the Withdrawal Agreement and the only outstanding thing is trade agreement

So exactly what IS the agreed arrangement then?

 

[busby]

I have driven through a good few boarders and mostly there is no one there to look at the passport, and even if they did know, would they care? or would they think, here is someone bringing much needed cash to my country?

There are no borders between Schengin countries,,BUSBY.

 

[spitfire]

So exactly what IS the agreed arrangement then?

Travel or do business in Europe: Brexit guidance

Find out how new Brexit rules apply to things like travelling, working, studying and doing business with Europe in or with EU countries.

www.gov.uk

The Withdrawal Agreement re visiting Europe . Signed and agreed by U.K. and the EU nations.

 

[DBK]

So exactly what IS the agreed arrangement then?

90/180 is the default position. I can't see it changing but happy to be wrong if things improve.

 

[spitfire]

Was no one paying attention during the negotiations and when the agreement was published and voted through in Parliament !

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[Boringfrog]

Travel or do business in Europe: Brexit guidance

Find out how new Brexit rules apply to things like travelling, working, studying and doing business with Europe in or with EU countries.

www.gov.uk

The Withdrawal Agreement re visiting Europe . Signed and agreed by U.K. and the EU nations.

There's a lot of "You May" in that article?

 

[spitfire]

There's a lot of "You May" in that article?

The EU-UK Withdrawal Agreement

Learn about the results of past negotiations: the Withdrawal Agreement with its chapters on Citizens’ Rights and the Protocol on Ireland/Northern...

ec.europa.eu

If you would like to read the complete transcript it is above .
I do not see a ‘ may’ regarding the 90/180 rule but if you read it differently then I have no problem with that .

 

[glenn2926]

Yes because the whole purpose of B was to stop freedom of movement and it works both ways ! There is all the information you need re overstay in The Schengen zone on the internet . It isn’t anything new . It exists for all other countries outwith like USA , Australia etc so U.K. us just added to the list .
This subject has been done to death previously so maybe check back to previous threads

I didn’t think we were ever in the shengen area so surely this 90 day rule was always the case.

 

[spitfire]

I didn’t think we were ever in the shengen area so surely this 90 day rule was always the case.

Indeed but never implemented as we were a member of the EU but after year end we become TCN ‘s ie Third Country Nationals with different terms . Me too until my French nationality comes through .

 

[Minxy]

Travel or do business in Europe: Brexit guidance

Find out how new Brexit rules apply to things like travelling, working, studying and doing business with Europe in or with EU countries.

www.gov.uk

The Withdrawal Agreement re visiting Europe . Signed and agreed by U.K. and the EU nations.

I've read that previously but there are so many 'get out of jail' comments in it that to imply it is agreed is IMV not totally correct. Once it says 'must' instead of 'may' then that will definitely be the final agreement, until then it's still not totally settled from my reading of it.

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[Crazylegs]

Because it doesn’t matter which countries you visit in the zone until you leave . And your arrival will be logged in whatever country you enter and logged again when you leave on the computer if the zone not the country . If you leave the zone eg to visit Morocco it will be logged you have left the zone as there is border control with any countries outwith the zone .

I think I’ve found a work around, twice we have visited BIH via the corridor, despite lots of offices we have never seen anyone let alone get a passport checked. I’m going to claim I spent 90 days there.

 

[gus-lopez]

It all depends on what type of "residency " each EU state will be conferring on there permanent foreign residents.

""The Withdrawal Agreement offers two possibilities for dealing with the documentation process: (1) Establish a procedure by which the above residents and their family members must apply for a new residence permit in the host nation (Article 18.1); (2) Not initiate this procedure and issue a residence document that expressly identifies citizens as beneficiaries of the Agreement (Article 18.4). ""

Spain has opted for the second one so as I have already done I have changed my certificate for a plastic ID card. This has the benefits of containing all biometric info + fingerprints & allows me to travel cross border using the card only
The spanish version from here in English;

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/howtoprepare/Paginas/190108residence.aspx

My understanding that as a permanent resident I can travel in any other EU state exactly the same as a spanish national remaining for up to 90 consecutive days then pop next door.
When I tour it is as a permanent Spanish resident & using the new TIE card which gives no indication that I am not a spaniard. Nor now will I bother with the passport anywhere in the EU as the card is sufficient.

here from spanish Agreement;
"as it is a physical card that includes biometric elements that will allow many administrative procedures to be carried out, including crossing foreign borders within the European Union. "

//Lesson now but later I will see what the spanish government site states &

I am classed as a 'beneficiary of the withdrawal agreement' & therefore the following applies to me as taken from the spanish Q&A page of the EU withdrawal agreement

**If I am a beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement, I am in possession of a residence document issued on the basis of that agreement and want to move to reside in another EU country, can I do so?
The Withdrawal Agreement recognises the right to reside in the host country, however future mobility will be subject to negotiations within the framework of the future relationship between the UK and the EU. Should there be a lack of agreement in this matter:For short stays: the rules for short stays within the Schengen area apply For stays longer than 3 months, the national legislation of each EEA shall apply.**

As you can see the last paragraph states that the rules remain the same for under 3 month stays in each EU state for those who are entitled.
above from here the spanish Q&A page;

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/brexit/Documents/GUIDE BREXIT eng.pdf


The problem is if you wish to permanently move to another state then the withdrawal agreement has no rights & you have to comply as a 3rd country national.
Some of it is vague & can be interpreted in different ways?

How any country would know what length of time a card carrying permanent resident of another state had been in theirs ,especially travelling in a vehicle registered in the resident state ,i've no idea? Not as if they can check a passport ?

 

[Off da Grid]

No passport controls entering or leaving Switzerland recently so how do they know who’s been where.
Unless each country actually implements border controls again how can they enforce it,
Unless it’s policed at the U.K. border, at the moment no one seems bothered unless your flying anywhere.

 

[AXO66]

No passport controls entering or leaving Switzerland recently so how do they know who’s been where.
Unless each country actually implements border controls again how can they enforce it,
Unless it’s policed at the U.K. border, at the moment no one seems bothered unless your flying anywhere.

Aren’t are passports checked as enter france from the Uk now.After we leave the ferry (ell maybe as we enter the ferry)

from next year the french will stamp our passports and add a tourists visa.

all held electronically.

then check us as we leave the EU and give us an exit date., so we can work out how many days of our 90 we have used in the 180 days.

no doubt our controlled borders will do the same for EU nationals entering the UK.

 

[gus-lopez]

Unless it’s policed at the U.K. border, at the moment no one seems bothered unless your flying anywhere.

Yes when you leave passport will be stamped. If stopped anywhere in the EU & in excess of 90 days then probably fined /banned from returning. If not stopped & returning to the UK in excess of 90 days the same would apply.

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[Boringfrog]

Aren’t are passports checked as enter france from the Uk now.After we leave the ferry (ell maybe as we enter the ferry)

from next year the french will stamp our passports and add a tourists visa.

all held electronically.

then check us as we leave the EU and give us an exit date., so we can work out how many days of our 90 we have used in the 180 days.

no doubt our controlled borders will do the same for EU nationals entering the UK.

Qué¿

 

[Pete5996]

No passport controls entering or leaving Switzerland recently so how do they know who’s been where.

Switzerland is in the Schengen area.

 

[AXO66]

Qué¿

just picking your point about who bothers now.

always thought when using the ferry into The EU via france our passports are checked .

so next year they can and will tighten up..........c’est la vie.

 

[Tea Bag]

You also only have 2 months to import your motorhome after that you have to pay import tax on the value of the

Hi.
We imported our mo/ho when we bought over here and took up residency... However, you are only allowed ONE imported vehicle at this special rate,this one now in progress, is going to cost around 5.000 euro. You and matamoros are right about the licencing,waiting now for the paperwork to arrive.
Cannot come back to the UK. Covid 19, and........ They have burnt my BED !!
Tea Bag

 

[SmithsInFrance]

I understood that in Portugal if you bought a property and a car through a company rather than personally there were considerable tax advantages?

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[EuroTrotters]

Thanks to the OP for an interesting topic.

I am still very confused by it all.

But I guess I am one of those people who cannot grasp simple things.....

Still digesting

 

[jumar]

Amazing how some folk still do not fully understand what Brexit and Freedom of Movement means, trying to find a way around something that is done and dusted, signed off, agreed on, is in my opinion going to land some folk in very hot water.........I am very pleased I have jumartoo and gus-lopez at my disposal.

 

[Coolcats]

Because your passport will be logged into the system when you enter the zone , whichever country . Then logged again when you leave whatever country So flagging up your time in the zone . Not any particular country

You can always use two passports one to enter one to leave

 

[spitfire]

You can always use two passports one to enter one to leave

Sorry good idea but doesn’t work . Daughter has both Australian and British passport and must use same passport entering and leaving whichever one you choose . Or computer says no ! As has no record of you entering . So illegal entry .

 

[Coolcats]

Sorry good idea but doesn’t work . Daughter has both Australian and British passport and must use same passport entering and leaving whichever one you choose . Or computer says no ! As has no record of you entering . So illegal entry .

Ah ok have traveled with a friend who used his British passport on check out his US one On return it’s a strange world.

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[Coolcats]

No passport controls entering or leaving Switzerland recently so how do they know who’s been where.
Unless each country actually implements border controls again how can they enforce it,
Unless it’s policed at the U.K. border, at the moment no one seems bothered unless your flying anywhere.

I don’t think people realise that it’s not just boarders where people can be traced, credit and debit cards, ANPR, social media, and good old Data SIM cards can show where you have been. I’m sure there are other methods but that’s just a few. Never in before in history can a government find out so much about an individual citizen and their movements.

 

[Brockley]

Just tell them on departure that you‘re Syrian, you’ve lost your passport and want to return home because the 4 star hotel wasn’t up to much. Coming back you shouldn’t need to tell them anything - sorted

 

[Minxy]

You can always use two passports one to enter one to leave

Have you ever watched the 'Border Control' TV programmes?

No way would this get past the 'officials' and you'd probably be investigated much more thoroughly than normal thus taking more time and you'd be stuck answering loads of questions, then, if they find you've done it for 'naughty' reasons, such as being an overstayer you can expect a fine and a ban for a number of years ... is it worth it?

 

[BreweryDave]

However, there is case law to suggest that it is different if after 5 years one obtains a Permanent Resident's Permit

News to me ?
My understanding that as a permanent resident I can travel in any other EU state exactly the same as a spanish national remaining for up to 90 consecutive days then pop next door.
When I tour it is as a permanent Spanish resident & using the new TIE card which gives no indication that I am not a spaniard. Nor now will I bother with the passport anywhere in the EU as the card is sufficient

I believe once ‘permanent’ residency is obtained, it is anticipated that you will indeed be exempt from the 90/180 as per citizens. However this is still under negotiation according to the U.K. embassy in Lisbon.

The confusion may arise for expats differing between types of residency! ( yes, there are two types, but they are the same, but may affect the future)

Here in Portugal, there’s temporary and permanent, however, that actually only actually applies to the physical certificate, the initial one is valid for 5 years and is referred to as temporary, and as long as you satisfy the immigration rules during those 5 years (ie. don’t leave, or abuse the system by ‘living’ in the uk and spending more than 3 months at your holiday home ) then you have to apply for your ‘permanent‘ status, and a new certificate. However, once you have ’residency’, you have it! But again, it is said you would need the ‘permanent’ status to benefit from not being subject to the 90/180. In other words, not until after your first five years.
........clear as mud

 

[Minxy]

I believe once ‘permanent’ residency is obtained, it is anticipated that you will indeed be exempt from the 90/180 as per citizens. However this is still under negotiation according to the U.K. embassy in Lisbon.

The confusion may arise for expats differing between types of residency! ( yes, there are two types, but they are the same, but may affect the future)

Here in Portugal, there’s temporary and permanent, however, that actually only actually applies to the physical certificate, the initial one is valid for 5 years and is referred to as temporary, and as long as you satisfy the immigration rules during those 5 years (ie. don’t leave, or abuse the system by ‘living’ in the uk and spending more than 3 months at your holiday home ) then you have to apply for your ‘permanent‘ status, and a new certificate. However, once you have ’residency’, you have it! But again, it is said you would need the ‘permanent’ status to benefit from not being subject to the 90/180. In other words, not until after your first five years.
........clear as mud

Actually that mud was very clear to me at least.

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