Fogstar Drift - Shutting down due to high temp.?

[Pausim]

a lot of the problems reported are user error and installation problems not problems with the batteries themselves.

User error is a recent problem that only arose since some makes started including bluetooth access to the BMS. I bought a Relion lithium over 6 years ago and the only user access is to the + and - terminals on the top and it hasn’t given me any trouble, ever.

I will need a larger under-seat lithium later this year for my new van. Unfortunately all this type seem to come with bluetooth BMSs. I am not looking forward to the problems that seem to plague this new generation of lithiums. Fogstar is no longer on my list. As a customer it is not my job to do full discharge and charge cycles to get the BMS in balance with the cells and state of charge. Neither do I expect to receive a new battery that already needs a firmware update which involves returning it to them. Sorry to all you Fogstar fans but they need to get their act together.

 

[jezport]

Whenever I hear a problem now about lithium batteries it’s usually fogstar bms that’s the problem…..

I think that there are a number of reasons why.
1 There are a lot of settings on the BMS and a lot of things are visible to the end user. They get concerned when they see any reading that slightly differs to other users reports. If the numbers were not visible the battery and BMS would not give any reason to go online and question them.
2 Barely any instructions come with the battery.
3 Some batteries are leaving the importer not fully balanced, they may or may not balance over around 10 cycles. However the the batteries are generally large capacity so can take a long time to cycle 10 times.
4 It seems at times that the BMS has not had the best settings applied before sale. Fogstar will take you through any issues arising.
5 The BMS software is not always clear to understand. Its been updated. I.e. in the past the first cell to reach fully charged caused a COV warning, this has now been changed to fully charged. Also the cell temperature and bms temperature were attached to the 3 first groups of cells. Now the BMS temperature is on the front page and the 2 groups of cells voltage are on the second page.

 

[Raul]

After having problems with my 2 in parallel lithium set up, and speaking to several knowledgeable installers their concensus of opinion was to go for a single battery set up, which I did, and other than the fact that the BMS cannot detect low amp drains ie under 1 amp I have had no problems.
The installers I spoke to said that in a parallel set up, even when correctly installed, that the 2 batteries won't discharge/charge the same with one generally discharging more than the other and one charging before the other and therefore the 2 separate BMS's behaving differently.

I have 3 batteries in parallel since last year, and before that was 2 batteries since I built the van in 2019. All playing nicely. The installers that don’t understand a parallel scenario with individual bms, should not touch any installs. Batteries that have adequate bms for charging and discharging limits equal, can be paralleled to infinite number, same as Victron super batt.
The only problem is a concern is series connection, as the system voltage will rise in line with the number of series, so the bms needs to be capable to take higher voltage. If it’s a 12v bms for example, and you make a 24v bank out of two, you need to be 100% that the bms components are capable of a higher voltage. Most good BMS es, can take 60v allowing for 48v banks. But most 4s bms es, are only designed to be used in a 12v system only. People get this wrong sometimes.

 

[headlight]

. The installers that don’t understand a parallel scenario with individual bms, should not touch any installs.

I don't think the installers I spoke to didn't understand parallel set ups with individual BMS's.
Quite the contrary they understood the potential problems.

 

[Just smiffy]

I’m only saying what I see, a few fogstar problems on here but I don’t see other batteries mentioned…

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[MichaelT]

Yes they do but they suggested to me that I swapped from a parallel set up to one big battery to solve my issues which it did.

So did they replace your 2 for a new larger one?

 

[StillGoing]

Before we had a BMS with Bluetooth, we just used the batteries and we had no idea what was going on in the battery. I think there’s a lot to be said for not installing the BMS app. Install a shunt and just use the batteries. Sometimes too much information isn’t helpful and makes people worry unnecessarily.

My EV runs on lithium batteries and I have no idea what the cell voltages are, or what the cell temperatures are or what error codes the BMS is producing. All I know is how much charge is left. I prefer it that way. It’s a lot less stressful.

 

[Just smiffy]

I don't think the installers I spoke to didn't understand parallel set ups with individual BMS's.
Quite the contrary they understood the potential problems.

From your thread where you had the problem I thought you had unsatisfactory customer service from fogstar, ? It took them a while to comment on your situation and really didn’t accept the problem otherwise they would have replaced the batteries, in the end after much more expense from you ie: a new iPhone because their bms doesn’t work well on android…

And the cost and hassle of replacing two batteries for one bigger one… my confidence would have ended after 2 weeks let alone what else you did… as for me, there are other batteries out there where I haven’t heard of problems and it’s them that I’ll be looking at when the time comes for me to get one..

 

[headlight]

So did they replace your 2 for a new larger one?

Yes they replaced my 2 x 105AH with a single 230AH which I've not had any problems with.

 

[headlight]

From your thread where you had the problem I thought you had unsatisfactory customer service from fogstar, ? It took them a while to comment on your situation and really didn’t accept the problem otherwise they would have replaced the batteries, in the end after much more expense from you ie: a new iPhone because their bms doesn’t work well on android…

And the cost and hassle of replacing two batteries for one bigger one… my confidence would have ended after 2 weeks let alone what else you did… as for me, there are other batteries out there where I haven’t heard of problems and it’s them that I’ll be looking at when the time comes for me to get one..

Yes it did take about 6 weeks to sort out but they swapped the 2 x 105AH for 1 x 230AH FOC, so no cost.
I could have had the swap 2 weeks earlier but I wanted to try and get the parallel set up to work properly so Fogster were not bad to deal with.
I think I may have had a BMS problem with one battery as when I unparalleled them one worked fine but one still had issues.
As to the app issues with my Android phone that appeared to have been down to my old phone only having 4G bluetooth.
I replaced the phone with a new Android 5G bluetooth phone and the app has worked fine with that.

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[bigtwin]

I think those advocating twin battery banks are just used to lead-acid batteries.

Possibly, but the primary (and fairly important) reason for going to a twin battery bank is to overcome maximum discharge limits from a single larger battery.

I don't think two separate batteries is more reliable than one big battery.

I would tend to share that view. In fact, with double the number of components it’s likely that they're less reliable.

speaking to several knowledgeable installers their concensus of opinion was to go for a single battery set up, which I did,

Do you run an inverter or are you a light load user?

As a customer it is not my job to do full discharge and charge cycles to get the BMS in balance with the cells and state of charge.

If you were running a wet lead system, who do you see being responsible for adding, and topping up, electrolyte?

Ian

 

[headlight]

Do you run an inverter or are you a light load user?

I am just about to replace my little 300 watt inverter with a 2,000 watt one.
The 2 x 105AH I had had a max discharge rate of 100 amps each so 200amp discharge.
The single 230AH that replaced them has a max discharge of 200 amps, so the same.

 

[Raul]

You have to read the small print. Most batteries are OK, but some specifically say not to connect them in parallel. And most have a limit to the number. Could be 2, or up to 10.

I think those advocating twin battery banks are just used to lead-acid batteries. I don't think two separate batteries is more reliable than one big battery. How many people advocate twin starter batteries?

There are thousands if not millions of solar storage in parallel, some with, and some without coms. Each module battery has its own bms and its own protection.
one distinctive difference: they are all in a. new system, and designed to work that way.
Many van systems are very poor designed and parallel batteries in some will not work, unless you re design to suit.
That does not allude to Lead users mindset. Parallel is for space accommodating, bms input/output share, modular design to suit a wide range of needs, and some redundancy. I will never be able to have one battery with the capacity I have now. So parallel makes things possible, but I made it work.
Tell victron they are wrong, they should build big batteries, and not not allow parallel.

I think all this parallel talk is more due to user error, poor implementation, and lack of understanding of components integration.

 

[headlight]

There are thousands if not millions of solar storage in parallel, some with, and some without coms. Each module battery has its own bms and its own protection.
one distinctive difference: they are all in a. new system, and designed to work that way.
Many van systems are very poor designed and parallel batteries in some will not work, unless you re design to suit.
That does not allude to Lead users mindset. Parallel is for space accommodating, bms input/output share, modular design to suit a wide range of needs, and some redundancy. I will never be able to have one battery with the capacity I have now. So parallel makes things possible, but I made it work.
Tell victron they are wrong, they should build big batteries, and not not allow parallel.

I think all this parallel talk is more due to user error, poor implementation, and lack of understanding of components integration.

I do not think my problems were down to user error, poor implementation or lack of understanding.
I think one of my BMS's had a problem as even when not paralleled one battery continued to have issues where as unparalleled the other battery was fine.

 

[Raul]

I do not think my problems were down to user error, poor implementation or lack of understanding.
I think one of my BMS's had a problem as even when not paralleled one battery continued to have issues where as unparalleled the other battery was fine.

I can’t speak of ANY specific case, each is different, but, from what you told us in your cas, my advice to you at the time was, get back to fogstar pronto, and push for a swap.
In your situation a single battery makes sense if you got the space for it.

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[headlight]

I can’t speak of ANY specific case, each is different, but, from what you told us in your cas, my advice to you at the time was, get back to fogstar pronto, and push for a swap.
In your situation a single battery makes sense if you got the space for it.

Which is exactly what I did.
I tried everything suggested by Fogstar and on here before giving up and opting for one big single battery, which I've had no problems with so far.

 

[bigtwin]

Which is exactly what I did.
I tried everything suggested by Fogstar and on here before giving up and opting for one big single battery, which I've had no problems with so far.

It’s great that they came good for you.

From what you’ve actually said the issue you experienced was as a result of a faulty BMS (and not an issue with having a two battery bank). A single battery is just as likely to have a BMS failure as any individual battery in a bank. You shouldn’t let your experience of having a BMS failure colour your view of battery banks.

Ian

 

[Chossy]

Have you seen this thread? The batteries may need a firmware update to the BMS.

Fogstar 105Ah firmware update

If anyone is seeing a lot of high temperature charging (OTC) and high temperature discharging (OTD) alerts in the app then you may need a BMS firmware update from Fogstar. Apparently it only affects a recent small batch of 105Ah batteries. I’ve had to update my pair of batteries. In the app...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Hello, yes that is the thread I found and responded in. Hopefully I have the same issue. However check this horseshit from the fogstar app... item 1. Is the same as item 2. and errr item 3. tells me not to actually connect to the battery? what a terrible UX we have here. This pops up when I open the app. I have no connections issues.

 

[Pausim]

If you were running a wet lead system, who do you see being responsible for adding, and topping up, electrolyte?

I wouldn’t buy a wet lead acid battery that needed topping up. Neither would I pay a lot more for a LiPo that needed deep cycling to get it to work properly. Neither would I accept a battery that immediately needed returning for a firmware update, I would reject it as unfit for purpose and buy a different one that arrived in full working order.

 

[Lenny HB]

I’m only saying what I see, a few fogstar problems on here but I don’t see other batteries mentioned…

Did you turn a blind eye to the KS Energy problem them?
They had to recall a batch of their under seat batteries due to poor construction & one van caught fire and was written off.

Fogstar's BMS problems are very minor in comparison, more of a niggle than a problem for most of them.
When I get the new van I will be fitting Fogstar, not only are they very competitively priced they also use EVE cells which are very good and they appear to have good customer service. I will also be fitting two in parallel to overcome the 200 amp max discharge.

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[bigtwin]

I wouldn’t buy a wet lead acid battery that needed topping up.

Many suppliers will only ship them dry. I don’t know if there are others who will ship them wet (mind you, I suspect that it isn’t the suppliers that have the issue but rather the couriers who are unwilling to carry them wet).

Ian

 

[Chossy]

Fogstar have a lot of appealing qualities as a potential customer, however mine sadly is a failure right out the gate. I'm cool with being unlucky, it happens, let's see how things progress. I was certainly excited after spending £900 or so on a battery and charger, hopefully it all works out after either a firmware upgrade or a replacement.

 

[AdrianChen]

Did you turn a blind eye to the KS Energy problem them?
They had to recall a batch of their under seat batteries due to poor construction & one van caught fire and was written off.

Fogstar's BMS problems are very minor in comparison, more of a niggle than a problem for most of them.
When I get the new van I will be fitting Fogstar, not only are they very competitively priced they also use EVE cells which are very good and they appear to have good customer service. I will also be fitting two in parallel to overcome the 200 amp max discharge.

Interesting that one battery seemed to affect the second in headlight case - I wonder if its better with certain BMS's to wire each separately to busbars, rather than Pos off one and Neg off the other (As mine are)?

 

[Pausim]

Many suppliers will only ship them dry. I don’t know if there are others who will ship them wet (mind you, I suspect that it isn’t the suppliers that have the issue but rather the couriers who are unwilling to carry them wet).

Ian

The last lead acid battery I bought was a replacement for my car and it arrived with a courier ready to use. Filling batteries is simply not a DIY job as far as I am concerned. These days most seem to be sealed VRLA ones.

 

[headlight]

Interesting that one battery seemed to affect the second in headlight case - I wonder if its better with certain BMS's to wire each separately to busbars, rather than Pos off one and Neg off the other (As mine are)?

Yes.
Both my batteries negative wires went to my shunt with all negatives then taken from the shunt.
Both batteries positives went to a bus bar with all positives taken from that.
All battery cables the same length, rating and make.

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[Just smiffy]

Did you turn a blind eye to the KS Energy problem them?
They had to recall a batch of their under seat batteries due to poor construction & one van caught fire and was written off.

Fogstar's BMS problems are very minor in comparison, more of a niggle than a problem for most of them.
When I get the new van I will be fitting Fogstar, not only are they very competitively priced they also use EVE cells which are very good and they appear to have good customer service. I will also be fitting two in parallel to overcome the 200 amp max discharge.

I can’t remember yesterday sometimes…

I’ll stick with my Gels for now….

 

[PeterCarole29]

The last lead acid battery I bought was a replacement for my car and it arrived with a courier ready to use. Filling batteries is simply not a DIY job as far as I am concerned. These days most seem to be sealed VRLA ones.

I may be wrong and always happy to be corrected.
When setting up a system like for like not taking into account weight that is suitable for modern use in a motorhome using inverter /induction which in the main is why myself and others go for lithium or wet lead acid the hard life lead acid would have i would have thought a sealed lead acid was a bit DIY which is why i went with Trojan that you maintain.
Can you hammer sealed lead acid battery ?

 

[PeterCarole29]

I can’t remember yesterday sometimes…

I’ll stick with my Gels for now….

(I cant remember yesterday sometimes . )Its just an observation and i dont mean this to be personal at all so hope you dont take it that way Thats a pretty poor excuse when you seem quite happy to slag off Fogstar by bringing up negative comments from others and no experience good or bad yourself.

 

[Just smiffy]

(I cant remember yesterday sometimes . )Its just an observation and i dont mean this to be personal at all so hope you dont take it that way Thats a pretty poor excuse when you seem quite happy to slag off Fogstar by bringing up negative comments from others and no experience good or bad yourself.

Perhaps I’m just reading the threads about fogstar…? And when there is one it’s because someone has a problem, I’m not slagging them off as I’m interested in buying a lithium battery but as we’ve seen a fair few people are having a problem with the BMS…

I seriously can’t remember a thread about another brand of lithium battery in the last two months but I’m sure someone will investigate the threads now…

Surly not everyone is buying fogstar…

But I’m sure I’ll be ok if I do buy one as I have a good iPhone….

 

[MichaelT]

Did you turn a blind eye to the KS Energy problem them?
They had to recall a batch of their under seat batteries due to poor construction & one van caught fire and was written off.

Fogstar's BMS problems are very minor in comparison, more of a niggle than a problem for most of them.
When I get the new van I will be fitting Fogstar, not only are they very competitively priced they also use EVE cells which are very good and they appear to have good customer service. I will also be fitting two in parallel to overcome the 200 amp max discharge.

But that was a one off and resolved straight away, if you search this forum alone you will find 10 to 15 issues with fogstar virtually none for other makes. At the end of the day all these batteries are made in China so probably the same. I've got a ks and it's been faultless but you can't change settings just monitor which seems a better idea than having to set it up then stop charging when not in use and making changes to charging profile etc. Decent BMS should protect the battery without that faff, but they are cheap so I understand why people buy them.

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