Fines in the post 😐

[Gingernuts]

Arrived home after 4 weeks abroad in the van and guess what!?
2 x parking fines!!!!!
1 x Tesco in Dover by horizon parking
Done my shopping got fuel then slept in the van 19.17-01.54 waiting for the ferry got a parking charge notice for £70, £40 if paid in 14days.
1x Durham Road chef by group nexus for £100 arrived at 21.49-06.48 both with photos of my van!
Can’t remember the Durham one I was tired that’s why I stopped, didn’t see any signs!
Both were empty car parks what’s the Fiddlesticksin problem!!???

 

[RJohn]

I haven't read all of this thread but thought I'd share some insights with you all;

1. 'Parking charge notices' in privately owned car parks are not parking fines, they are invoices for parking
2. They are issued on the presumption that the registered keeper of the vehicle was the driver, had read the contract terms displayed in the car park and by parking there had evidenced agreement to those terms (you could operate a similar system on your own driveway if you chose)
3. Recourse for non payment of the parking charge invoice would typically be through the small claims court. It's not a criminal matter (see point 9 below)
4. The parking company (horizon, parking eye etc) will send out letters based on the returns for each batch of letters. For example 1,000 'it's £100 but pay within 14 days and it's £60' letters at a cost of, say, £2 each may yield, say, 600 payments. 600 x £60 = £36,000; that's £34,000 after costs.
5. 400 'we're not going away, pay £100' letters at a cost of, say, £2 each may yield, say, 100 payments. 100 x £100 = £10,000; £9,200 after costs. I think you get the picture!
6. Unless a 'customer' has many unpaid invoices with the same company/same car park it's unlikely that they'll ever end up in small claims court. The (only partially recoverable) costs for the parking company of going to court to recover £100 are prohibitive and would make it a loss making activity
7. I typically get one parking charge notice (remember it's an invoice not a fine) per year (since 2008) and haven't paid any. Whilst I typically get 5-8 letters over a period of 2-3 years for each one I've never been to court and I've never paid any
8. Should I get 2 or 3 from the same car park I take photos to illustrate how unlikely it would be that I would have read the terms and conditions standing by my parked vehicle. I've never been to court so I've never had to use the photos
9. Most important, I don't confuse private car parks with local authority car parks, double yellows etc where you get 'Penalty Charge Notices'. I pay them because failure to do so is a criminal offence

 

[2x2camper]

Unless a 'customer' has many unpaid invoices with the same company/same car park it's unlikely that they'll ever end up in small claims court. The (only partially recoverable) costs for the parking company of going to court to recover £100 are prohibitive and would make it a loss making activity

My son was issued with a County Court summons by one of the parking companies. They issued the "invoice" because he had not entered his registration number into the car park recording system of the gym's car park. He was actually in their just signing up to the gym at the time and who every took his details didn't enter thr reg correctly. A friend of his was also sitting in the car at the time,

After many letters and replies from my son a summons was issued about 4 years later. He replied to the court docs designing he owed the money and basically said see you in court. The debt was about £300 with the court costs but as we got closer to the court date they offered lower and lower amounts to settle. When it got to the point that they had to lay out more money they dropped the case.

Part of the small claims court procedure is mediation if both parties agree, they would not agree to this.

The problem is most people are afraid of the court system as they no nothing about it, I have used it as part of my job and was quite sure they would not succeed in their claim.

 

[Pechris]

You park,you pay. If not go to a campsite.

 

[grumps147]

Easy. Check with the MSA operator as part of journey planning in advance or ask at the management/service office on site.

It's not always easy to report on site Graham, the management office is not always staffed. We broke down M6 south and limped into Stafford South services. We did not know, but the parking is managed by Smith's and the site management are rarely there. The management office was locked. Fortunately, the Green Flag garage was there quickly and sorted us before the time expiry. I would have disputed any penalties if it had come to that on the basis that it was an emergency and that is one of the things service areas were put there for, and there were plenty of signs about parking, but nothing about who to contact on site. The truckers know, but it's not signed anywhere that is easily visible.

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[GJH]

It's not always easy to report on site Graham, the management office is not always staffed. We broke down M6 south and limped into Stafford South services. We did not know, but the parking is managed by Smith's and the site management are rarely there. The management office was locked. Fortunately, the Green Flag garage was there quickly and sorted us before the time expiry. I would have disputed any penalties if it had come to that on the basis that it was an emergency and that is one of the things service areas were put there for, and there were plenty of signs about parking, but nothing about who to contact on site. The truckers know, but it's not signed anywhere that is easily visible.

I have to admit that I was thinking of the sort of planned circumstance mentioned in the post I responded to.
A breakdown is obviously unplanned but contact details are usually on MSA company web sites (e.g. Stafford South) and I would expect an organisation such as Green Flag to be able to help as part of their service.

 

[nicholsong]

My thinking is that if one receives an invoice as the registered keeper from a private parking firm and one denies that one parked a vehicle as stated, then there is little in civil law that they can do to force you as registered keeper to disclose a driver's name, unlike for a criminal offence.

Am I correct?

 

[chaser]

What I can never understand about this fine or invoice thing is if you have parked there you owe the people the money whatever you call it.

 

[zac]

Here you go

here ya go

View attachment 801696 View attachment 801697

If paying, send them a cheque and back date to within the 14 days so its only £40 as its not your fault the post is so slow

 

[ronboyracer]

Arrived home after 4 weeks abroad in the van and guess what!?
2 x parking fines!!!!!
1 x Tesco in Dover by horizon parking
Done my shopping got fuel then slept in the van 19.17-01.54 waiting for the ferry got a parking charge notice for £70, £40 if paid in 14days.
1x Durham Road chef by group nexus for £100 arrived at 21.49-06.48 both with photos of my van!
Can’t remember the Durham one I was tired that’s why I stopped, didn’t see any signs!
Both were empty car parks what’s the Fiddlesticksin problem!!???

Days gone by, I have stopped overnight on supermarket car parks, in the golden days of motorhoming, especially and mainly abroad usually in emergencies and not as a norm, unfortunately what usually was allowed and not used as a money cow, as changed probably due to the enormous following in motorhome ownership and why not, we just have to be more carefull where we choose to stop, otherwise being bombarded with ridiculous fines, I've even being xposed to this, when entering a super market car park, being clocked in my motorhome struggling to find a parking spot, taking up time spent there, shopping in a strange supermarket when your travelling, even all Aldi aren't the same, I wrote back explaining all this and got the fine squashed, that was parking eye security the thing is not to panic and fight back in writing and keep all your receipts .

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[Silver-Fox]

No clear response but the general consensus was unless there is a designated code displayed for motorhomes then you should not park.

Nice and clear then

That being the case they wouldn’t be able to issue a pcn if you’re vehicle isn’t defined

 

[Silver-Fox]

It’s been perfectly acceptable for decades to use the speaking clock to calibrate against.

That’s interesting, but how do you record it’s been calibrated against the speaking clock?

Also how often does the calibration have to be done?

This kind of stuff fascinates me, yes sad I know

 

[Mr B]

Put false plates on. Plenty of white van man’s vans to copy… plods to busy to follow it up lol… I’ll get my tin hat and I’ve had

 

[gus-lopez]

POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) is the Official Independent and impartial appeals organisation recognised and regulated by the Ombudsman who handle appeals against PCN's for parking on private land. Oh! Fully funded by the British Parking Association, so that's all fine then!

yes exactly what you state . a vested interest.

I once received a fine here from a major european scamming company that collects for the uk & runs TFL's rubbish .lt was attempting to obtain money fraudulently by using the " cross border directive" for a parking fine assuming the ignorant foreigner would not know that they do not come under it.
They even stated that if I contested it i could "receive a POPLA code " to dispute the fine.
Those on the Which parking forum fell about laughing as a POPLA code can only be offered to& used by a UK resident. scammers all of them.

 

[BikerGraham]

That’s interesting, but how do you record it’s been calibrated against the speaking clock?

Also how often does the calibration have to be done?

This kind of stuff fascinates me, yes sad I know

You can determine that in your operating procedures.

But in the past we used to calibrate on a monthly basis and just record the fact it had been done. Date time and check period with any deviation etc and who did the calibration check.

It’s all relative and provided there was documentary evidence the likes of standards accreditation bodies always accepted it.

Like I implied it would be different for a criminal prosecution. But civil law is not as strict.

The speaking clock has been recognised for decades as an accurate time measure that’s why it is there. So people can set their timepieces. So if it is correct all the time then it must be able to be used to determine time difference between two points.