Filling in Dover Harbour for ETIAS (5 Viewers)

[POH]

How long do the illegals have to queue for before being ushered to their luxury accommodation ?

Only 15 minutes

 

[tribalbrit]

If its down to finger prints I'll never get out of the country. Mine are that worn down I can't open the lap top or the phone with them half the time.

 

[bigtree]

Only 15 minutes

 

[Brains]

Too late now, but if they had thought about the issue, then a lot of Samphire Hoe could have been used, although residents of Aycliffe may not have been impressed.

It was discussed at the time.
The original intention was to create an area twice the size of Samphire Hoe at the base of Aycliffe.

However no one was prepared to pay for the sea defences, and no one was prepared to buy the land after it was created as it could not be used for buildings until the ground settled, which would not be for several decades (probably about now!)

A massive very obvious fail by the Thatcher Government, as they could have afforded to create the land and then sit back and wait for 30-40 years and then sell it as prime building land.
However it involved vision and forward planning.

 

[Brains]

I’m interested why you think other ports will be less impacted? If so I might need to change my plans for next January.

Less ships, less passengers, more space.

Take Plymouth or Harwich as examples.

Only two or three ships leaving per day.
Tell people to arrive 3 or 4 hours early.
20 newly appointed Immigration Officers will be able to handle 300 vehicles in 3 hours

If Dover employed 200 new Immigration officers and somehow created a place for them to work, they still could not keep up

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[martin2603]

Less ships, less passengers, more space.

Take Plymouth or Harwich as examples.

Only two or three ships leaving per day.
Tell people to arrive 3 or 4 hours early.
20 newly appointed Immigration Officers will be able to handle 300 vehicles in 3 hours

If Dover employed 200 new Immigration officers and somehow created a place for them to work, they still could not keep up

Dover and Folkestone are two Ports where the French Border is effectively in the U.K. so the French will need to supply additional staff to facilitate the Border Checks.
Remember when a couple of years ago they only sent Five Officers to Dover one time . It was total Carnage. You must remember that the French can be the most uncooperative nation on the planet.
It will not end well.
New haven , Portsmouth and Plymouth are operated by U.K. Customs , they have limited sailings so there will be less risk of any delay.
Dover is going to be an insoluble problem at peak season .
Far from me to say it but “If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it!” Comes to mind!!!!

 

[philann]

Should be fairly easy to get a portable facial and fingerprint recognition device, most of us have one in our pockets that is almost instant. Pass it around the vehicle and all done in a few seconds!

Airports generally get through huge numbers of people relatively quickly, have never taken longer than 30 mins at Heathrow for border controls (much longer for baggage though), even my last trip to Orlando in January we were through border control in about 20 minutes, which was a big improvement on past visits.
The pinch point will be the number of border control staff employed at the ports.

 

[MichaelT]

Dover and Folkestone are two Ports where the French Border is effectively in the U.K. so the French will need to supply additional staff to facilitate the Border Checks.
Remember when a couple of years ago they only sent Five Officers to Dover one time . It was total Carnage. You must remember that the French can be the most uncooperative nation on the planet.
It will not end well.
New haven , Portsmouth and Plymouth are operated by U.K. Customs , they have limited sailings so there will be less risk of any delay.
Dover is going to be an insoluble problem at peak season .
Far from me to say it but “If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it!” Comes to mind!!!!

But then the delays will be in france if only 1 border person turns up to deal with each ferry?

 

[Brains]

Should be fairly easy to get a portable facial and fingerprint recognition device, most of us have one in our pockets that is almost instant. Pass it around the vehicle and all done in a few seconds!

Airports generally get through huge numbers of people relatively quickly, have never taken longer than 30 mins at Heathrow for border controls (much longer for baggage though), even my last trip to Orlando in January we were through border control in about 20 minutes, which was a big improvement on past visits.
The pinch point will be the number of border control staff employed at the ports.

It's not just the number of staff.

It's that issue that this type of border control, where each person is checked individually was designed to work for airports.
Where people are on foot.
It means, if space can be made available, then this could be rolled out to train stations as well.
(Although there will need to be some serious demolition in the middle of London and Paris to make the new terminals)

However the big problem is vehicles.
Take our Motorhomes as examples.
(And lets call it a tag axle 9m, with a car on a trailer at the back and 2 adults and two younger children inc a toddler on board)

They have to drive into a car park
Possibly a 'lane' type of parking to allow for different vehicle lengths
Behind the two minibuses each full of 17 teenagers and in front of the coach with 60 OAP's

Everyone gets out, the push chair is assembled for the toddler.
The teenagers are now spread across the car park as the Adult drivers attempts to herd cats
The OAP's are struggling all to get off and looking for the loo's as the Driver opens the luggage area for the three wheelchairs.

Within 5 minutes all 100 people have made it to the building where passports and biometrics are checked.
(Remember even Immigration has quoted 85% fail rate initially, falling to 20% fail rate after three years)
If there was no queue when they arrived
If there were 20 booths
If only a 20% fail rate

If the Teenagers can each be persuaded to remove hats and hair from their faces.
If the OAP's can be directed to put their passports into the feeder, the right way up
If the wheeled passengers (old and young) can be directed to the correct booth

In theory it should 'only' take five minutes to process 100 people with 20 booths and a100% success rate.
Practice is obviously vastly different.

100 people exit the building, half via the loos.
People drift onto the vehicles
Mixing with the new arrivals of course, so people that have been checked mixing with those that have not ?
Or perhaps the drivers go through on their own ? and pick up on the other side?
In which case who is dealing with the loose teenagers and the small children ?
Loads of people wandering around a large car park looking for a vehicle they may not be familiar with and they have no idea where it is ?
What could possibly go wrong?

With the best will in the world you are looking at 20 mins per vehicle
(Think about how long it takes to do a motorway loo stop, even if you are not getting fuel or anything it at least 20 mins from exit to entry of the motorway)

Now extrapolate that figure to the 11m people in 5m vehicles that pass through Dover each year.

(Answer: 16m hours, or 190 years of wasted time per year, just at Dover, and working on the assumption is 'only' 20 mins of wasted time per vehicle. Even using the previous Governments own figures of 16 hour tailbacks, the real figure could be many many time higher)

 

[Barchetta47]

Initially I believe Dover will use the same method as quoted here for cars in Normandy.

Tablets will register car passengers in queue​

Chauvet revealed that Normandy ports, including Cherbourg, Caen-Ouistreham, and Dieppe, will primarily use tablets for traveler registration. Staff members will distribute these devices to people waiting in their cars.

“A member of staff with a tablet will approach and give it to them. They will not be allowed to get out of the car,” Chauvet explained.

I’m not saying it will work well, it won’t, but we will need to keep our fingers crossed!! For us we always catch a 7am ish ferry so hopefully last nights queue will have been processed and we’ll be at the front of today’s!!!

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[ChrisSue]

Initially I believe Dover will use the same method as quoted here for cars in Normandy.

Tablets will register car passengers in queue​

Chauvet revealed that Normandy ports, including Cherbourg, Caen-Ouistreham, and Dieppe, will primarily use tablets for traveler registration. Staff members will distribute these devices to people waiting in their cars.

“A member of staff with a tablet will approach and give it to them. They will not be allowed to get out of the car,” Chauvet explained.

I’m not saying it will work well, it won’t, but we will need to keep our fingers crossed!! For us we always catch a 7am ish ferry so hopefully last nights queue will have been processed and we’ll be at the front of today’s!!!

That will work well until the next "covid" scare

 

[tribalbrit]

Get yourself a rubber dinghy and throw all your paperwork overboard.
Return journey only ofcourse

 

[gus-lopez]

Remember when a couple of years ago they only sent Five Officers to Dover one time . It was total Carnage. You must remember that the French can be the most uncooperative nation on the planet.

Then when they do that the Uk should just nod the passengers through as though they have checked them :Same as French always do to me at Dunkirk. two can play at that game.

 

[martin2603]

Initially I believe Dover will use the same method as quoted here for cars in Normandy.

Tablets will register car passengers in queue​

Chauvet revealed that Normandy ports, including Cherbourg, Caen-Ouistreham, and Dieppe, will primarily use tablets for traveler registration. Staff members will distribute these devices to people waiting in their cars.

“A member of staff with a tablet will approach and give it to them. They will not be allowed to get out of the car,” Chauvet explained.

I’m not saying it will work well, it won’t, but we will need to keep our fingers crossed!! For us we always catch a 7am ish ferry so hopefully last nights queue will have been processed and we’ll be at the front of today’s!!!

What you have to remember is that Dover has constant sailings not one or two a day as in the Normandy ports. There will be no problem in the lesser ports but as a resident of Kent 35 miles from Dover I dread the constant repeat of Stack and the gridlock which has occurred in and around Dover.

 

[martin2603]

Then when they do that the Uk should just nod the passengers through as though they have checked them :Same as French always do to me at Dunkirk. two can play at that game.

The customs and immigration staff at Dover and Folkestone are French. U.K. Border operates at Calais with English staff. It’s known a Juxtaposition.

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[dunnah01]

Get yourself a rubber dinghy and throw all your paperwork overboard.
Return journey only ofcourse

Change the record

 

[Brains]

Get yourself a rubber dinghy and throw all your paperwork overboard.
Return journey only ofcourse

The problem is not on the EU side, they have the space and the staff to deal with the issue.
Also it's people leaving, so not really an issue.

What you need to do is get in your rubber dingy at Dover to get to France.
I doubt chucking your paperwork over the side will speed up entry, but at least you will avoid the queues on the UK side.

Like the UK, you will not be given any money, you will be stuck for months in a dormitory and be unable to work,
perhaps after a year or two you will take voluntary repatriation and get sent back.

 

[scousebird]

Some photos of the works at Dover

I took these this morning

 

[cyberyacht]

Now extrapolate that figure to the 11m people in 5m vehicles that pass through Dover each year.

Are there people that tall really?

 

[MichaelT]

Are there people that tall really?

Mostly dutch

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[gus-lopez]

U.K. Border operates at Calais with English staff. It’s known a Juxtaposition.

The customs and immigration staff at Dover and Folkestone are French.

In all my return journeys the french have never even looked at anything ,just waved through.Brits have though?

U.K. Border operates at Calais with English staff. It’s known a Juxtaposition.

Same in Dunkirk. dfds check in, French vehicle check including opening roof box & then something else with french personnel/ sometimes army,never seen anyone english at dunkirk to my knowledge?

 

[Barchetta47]

What you have to remember is that Dover has constant sailings not one or two a day as in the Normandy ports. There will be no problem in the lesser ports but as a resident of Kent 35 miles from Dover I dread the constant repeat of Stack and the gridlock which has occurred in and around Dover.

I know I live 7 miles from the ferry port. Left from the apartment, first exit at the roundabout, second exit at the roundabout join the 10 cars waiting for the 7am ferry. Jobs a goodun. Sorry about Stack but I’m coming from the opposite direction

 

[scousebird]

I know I live 7 miles from the ferry port. Left from the apartment, first exit at the roundabout, second exit at the roundabout join the 10 cars waiting for the 7am ferry. Jobs a goodun. Sorry about Stack but I’m coming from the opposite direction

Where do you live?

 

[Barchetta47]

Where do you live?

Deal, jewel of the Kent coast. Keep quiet we don’t need more visitors!!

 

[scousebird]

Deal, jewel of the Kent coast. Keep quiet we don’t need more visitors!!

We're down the road in Sandwich

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[Barchetta47]

We're down the road in Sandwich

I hope you’re not one of the 10 in front of us at the 7am ferry

 

[scousebird]

We're down the road in Sandwich

I hope you’re not one of the 10 in front of us at the 7am ferry

Could be

 

[Brains]

We're down the road in Sandwich

And we are in Broadstairs.

Unfortunately once ETIAS is up and running, queue jumping by locals will not be permitted.
I suspect our route to Dover Port will be via the M25!

 

[jumar]

The 90 day ruling will need to be replaced with the 89 day model....allowing the last day exiting Schengen to be spent in the port...
Great for last minute shopping.....
I'm fully in favour of scrutinising entrants into Schengen.....we don't want anymore criminals here, we have enough already...

 

[BriannYe]

When we go through Dover my wife who has Schengen visa has her fingerprint check by French Border control by machine passed into the car.

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