Is it fair that farmers normally don't have to pay businesses rates ? Or vat on water bills.
Farmers.
- Thread starter xsparks
- Start date
Well it’s not quite sudden is it? It will only apply when owners die so could well be years in the future. Agreed for a few it could happen but changes have to happen sometime.If you have not been involved with farming, you probably never will, it's not a job, it's a way of life!
Let me put it another way.
IF you had a family run shop and you and your extended family lived above it for 100's of years
IF, when you died, and because of changes in legislation that happened in the 1980's ,NOT because your family asked for it but because the country was going through a recession and the Government wanted to stop the Farmers going out of business and, therefore, relying on expensive overseas imports,
The same Government SUDDENLY wanted to change it back depriving your family of, not only their business but HOME also, would you be happy?
No it's not fair on the taxpayer that farmers should be treated differently than others BUT it's equally not fair that Government should be allowed to SUDDENLY bring in legislation that could make Grandparents, Parents and Family homeless,!
Since the tax would be a relative small portion of value & large assets remain a mortgage would be obtainable surely. Farmers would have a choice to stay or go & buy a smaller house/farm either way with their £2.6 million plus. Now that’s hardly “homeless”
They have just suddenly brought in legislation that has applied iht to private pensions pots that were previously exempt but no one seems to be complaining. Are you seriously saying that £2m excempt for a couple wouldn't leave enough to buy a home to live in! In a country where we can't afford child benefit for more than 2 children for the poorest people in the country why should people have more than £2m excempt from iht and iht above that lower than anyone else? I think farmers under the new system are still being treated too generously and a lot more generously than the person in the family shop example you giveIf you have not been involved with farming, you probably never will, it's not a job, it's a way of life!
Let me put it another way.
IF you had a family run shop and you and your extended family lived above it for 100's of years
IF, when you died, and because of changes in legislation that happened in the 1980's ,NOT because your family asked for it but because the country was going through a recession and the Government wanted to stop the Farmers going out of business and, therefore, relying on expensive overseas imports,
The same Government SUDDENLY wanted to change it back depriving your family of, not only their business but HOME also, would you be happy?
No it's not fair on the taxpayer that farmers should be treated differently than others BUT it's equally not fair that Government should be allowed to SUDDENLY bring in legislation that could make Grandparents, Parents and Family homeless,!
There may be a few farmers who find the change too sudden but they will be the ones who have left their succession planning to the last moment or ignored it altogether. Most will have time to plan ahead and hopefully this will reduce the average age of farmers from the current ridiculous level of 59.
When I was in my 30s and 40s I despaired of the 60+ age group in my industry (not farming) who blocked progress with a ‘we have always done it this way attitude’ but at least I knew most would soon retire. Imagine how frustrating it must be for younger farmers faced with the prospect of themselves being well into their 60s before they will get a chance to take control.
There are many issues affecting farming adversely but IHT is not the one they should be making a big fuss about. They will just lose public support if they make a nuisance of themselves like the stop oil lot did.
When I was in my 30s and 40s I despaired of the 60+ age group in my industry (not farming) who blocked progress with a ‘we have always done it this way attitude’ but at least I knew most would soon retire. Imagine how frustrating it must be for younger farmers faced with the prospect of themselves being well into their 60s before they will get a chance to take control.
There are many issues affecting farming adversely but IHT is not the one they should be making a big fuss about. They will just lose public support if they make a nuisance of themselves like the stop oil lot did.
If you have not been involved with farming, you probably never will, it's not a job, it's a way of life!
Let me put it another way.
IF you had a family run shop and you and your extended family lived above it for 100's of years
IF, when you died, and because of changes in legislation that happened in the 1980's ,NOT because your family asked for it but because the country was going through a recession and the Government wanted to stop the Farmers going out of business and, therefore, relying on expensive overseas imports,
The same Government SUDDENLY wanted to change it back depriving your family of, not only their business but HOME also, would you be happy?
No it's not fair on the taxpayer that farmers should be treated differently than others BUT it's equally not fair that Government should be allowed to SUDDENLY bring in legislation that could make Grandparents, Parents and Family homeless,!
What everyone saying iht ought to still be excempt is conveniently forgetting is that the majority of land sold for housing was farmed land in the past. If these families through the generations are really custodians of land to feed the country why do they sell it for a fast buck!
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
As I am never going to convince some people that Farmers are a 'special case' not because of IHT but because we rely upon them!
How easily we seem to have forgotten only 5 years ago at the beginning of lockdown, when food was short, the local farmers and small businesses were Heroes, now everyone of them appears to be thought of as money grabbing rich bastards!
This is NOT the farming community that I know and are NOT represented by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and Mr Dyson.
They, like me, were horrified that the media pounched upon this pair for comment!
Most of the 'farmers' I know, are just like my parents, they have a few hundred acres and have to find other contract work to supplement their income,( even then, hardly achieve the standard living wage for the hours they work.)
Not take time off, driving their leased tractors to London for 5minutes of Fame. They are too busy!
I now realise that I made the right decision when I ran away from agriculture 60yrs ago after having to dig out carrots from deeply frozen ground with a pickaxe.
I know this sort of work is now done by one man and a harvester, but, at this miserable time of year, can be very, very lonely!
If I was a farmer today, unappreciated, I would take the Government money, do nothing like many others in Britain and let my farm return to nature.
In modern parlance it's now called 'rewilding'.
I'll say no more on this subject.
PS. It's interesting that, so far, NO-ONE has answered the question I posed in post #148?
How about it someone?
How easily we seem to have forgotten only 5 years ago at the beginning of lockdown, when food was short, the local farmers and small businesses were Heroes, now everyone of them appears to be thought of as money grabbing rich bastards!
This is NOT the farming community that I know and are NOT represented by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and Mr Dyson.
They, like me, were horrified that the media pounched upon this pair for comment!
Most of the 'farmers' I know, are just like my parents, they have a few hundred acres and have to find other contract work to supplement their income,( even then, hardly achieve the standard living wage for the hours they work.)
Not take time off, driving their leased tractors to London for 5minutes of Fame. They are too busy!
I now realise that I made the right decision when I ran away from agriculture 60yrs ago after having to dig out carrots from deeply frozen ground with a pickaxe.
I know this sort of work is now done by one man and a harvester, but, at this miserable time of year, can be very, very lonely!
If I was a farmer today, unappreciated, I would take the Government money, do nothing like many others in Britain and let my farm return to nature.
In modern parlance it's now called 'rewilding'.
I'll say no more on this subject.
PS. It's interesting that, so far, NO-ONE has answered the question I posed in post #148?
How about it someone?
- Dec 2, 2019
- 5,086
- 11,367
- Funster No
- 67,140
- MH
- Rapido 7065+
- Exp
- Broken most bits now
They would go straight to Coventry if they didPS. It's interesting that, so far, NO-ONE has answered the question I posed in post #148?
How about it someone?
As I am never going to convince some people that Farmers are a 'special case' not because of IHT but because we rely upon them!
How easily we seem to have forgotten only 5 years ago at the beginning of lockdown, when food was short, the local farmers and small businesses were Heroes, now everyone of them appears to be thought of as money grabbing rich bastards!
This is NOT the farming community that I know and are NOT represented by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and Mr Dyson.
They, like me, were horrified that the media pounched upon this pair for comment!
Most of the 'farmers' I know, are just like my parents, they have a few hundred acres and have to find other contract work to supplement their income,( even then, hardly achieve the standard living wage for the hours they work.)
Not take time off, driving their leased tractors to London for 5minutes of Fame. They are too busy!
I now realise that I made the right decision when I ran away from agriculture 60yrs ago after having to dig out carrots from deeply frozen ground with a pickaxe.
I know this sort of work is now done by one man and a harvester, but, at this miserable time of year, can be very, very lonely!
If I was a farmer today, unappreciated, I would take the Government money, do nothing like many others in Britain and let my farm return to nature.
In modern parlance it's now called 'rewilding'.
I'll say no more on this subject.
PS. It's interesting that, so far, NO-ONE has answered the question I posed in post #148?
How about it someone?
Probably because very few have had any practical experience of owning,living or even working on a farm!
I agree that we need farmers and rely on them for food but don’t think IHT is an issue they should be making such a big fuss about. Perhaps they should be looking for who is making big profits out of processing and selling the food they grow.As I am never going to convince some people that Farmers are a 'special case' not because of IHT but because we rely upon them!
How easily we seem to have forgotten only 5 years ago at the beginning of lockdown, when food was short, the local farmers and small businesses were Heroes, now everyone of them appears to be thought of as money grabbing rich bastards!
This is NOT the farming community that I know and are NOT represented by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and Mr Dyson.
They, like me, were horrified that the media pounched upon this pair for comment!
Most of the 'farmers' I know, are just like my parents, they have a few hundred acres and have to find other contract work to supplement their income,( even then, hardly achieve the standard living wage for the hours they work.)
Not take time off, driving their leased tractors to London for 5minutes of Fame. They are too busy!
I now realise that I made the right decision when I ran away from agriculture 60yrs ago after having to dig out carrots from deeply frozen ground with a pickaxe.
I know this sort of work is now done by one man and a harvester, but, at this miserable time of year, can be very, very lonely!
If I was a farmer today, unappreciated, I would take the Government money, do nothing like many others in Britain and let my farm return to nature.
In modern parlance it's now called 'rewilding'.
I'll say no more on this subject.
PS. It's interesting that, so far, NO-ONE has answered the question I posed in post #148?
How about it someone?
I have.
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
Ambulance paramedics.
Nurses.
Junior Doctors.
Mental Health Nurses.
Farm workers.
Volunteers, throughout the country.
Widows/Widowers, struggling on despite the odds being stacked against them.
And,the other millions of other acutely deserving people who would also like to be included in the "Special " category for IHT, and could make a much better case for it than, " well we had it for a while so should keep the exemption we enjoyed".
Still waiting for a valid excuse for this special case, and yes I grew upon farms and have first hand experience of the parsimony endured by farm labourers. A life where the employed farm labourers family were also expected to contribute their labour at illegal derisory rates.!!!
Mike.
Nurses.
Junior Doctors.
Mental Health Nurses.
Farm workers.
Volunteers, throughout the country.
Widows/Widowers, struggling on despite the odds being stacked against them.
And,the other millions of other acutely deserving people who would also like to be included in the "Special " category for IHT, and could make a much better case for it than, " well we had it for a while so should keep the exemption we enjoyed".
Still waiting for a valid excuse for this special case, and yes I grew upon farms and have first hand experience of the parsimony endured by farm labourers. A life where the employed farm labourers family were also expected to contribute their labour at illegal derisory rates.!!!
Mike.
Indeed you’re probably right. Most of us can’t afford to buy one if we wanted to!
Took me 10 years to save a deposit & 20 years to pay off the mortgage to own mine. AND it’s only just worth enough to pay a little IHT if any.
Took me 10 years to save a deposit & 20 years to pay off the mortgage to own mine. AND it’s only just worth enough to pay a little IHT if any.
If the farmer don’t own the land he won’t be paying IHT surely?If the Taxpayer can pay for hotels for people who have not contributed Tax, why not the farmer who has. especially when he often doesn't own the farm, only the lease and the equipment to work it?
It would take a lot of equipment to add up to the allowance. I would think most would be leased anyway.
I assume the other bit is directed at asylum seekers or other homeless?
Asylums seekers are not allowed to work until their case has been settled.
Since the Uk has no “official” way of applying when outside the country they have to get here illegally.
I appreciate it’s much more involved than that & I could never understand why we seem to have “home grown” homeless folk at all. Drugs & family disputes et all I suppose. Life is complex & it seems some can’t handle it.
- Aug 18, 2014
- 26,203
- 158,340
- Funster No
- 32,898
- MH
- Transit PVC
- Exp
- 16 years since restarting
& followuing that route people who do not drive should not be making driving laws. Along with poloiticians who if they have no background& qualifications in anything shoud never be ministers of departments.
They all need V20's in the UK permanetly just to have the 3 way linkage as it is not part of the original tractor.They started pulling them in Essex some years back.
The people who haven't contributed should be receiving nothing,including the home grown onesIf the Taxpayer can pay for hotels for people who have not contributed Tax, why not the farmer who has. especially when he often doesn't own the farm, only the lease and the equipment to work it?
probably because they are not wanted
& ,like the aussie method, if arriving illegally should never be allowed to apply for asylum & deported immediately along with anyone ,like starmer & khan et al, who wish to defend them
I fully agree with that.
specifically with military decisions as such we and Europe may now face.
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
- Oct 22, 2017
- 152
- 430
- Funster No
- 51,053
- MH
- Vantage Neo
- Exp
- Since 2007
Before we all get bleary eyed about farmers let’s remember it’s a Business just like any other & any IHT concession they’ve had for the last 40 years was just that a concession. I wonder how much has been paid in IHT by non farming businesses in the last 40 years?
When I wanted to wind my business up it took a lot of planning & advice from my accountant of 30 years & only after did I realise how much he’d saved me even after paying eye watering money to HMRC.
When I wanted to wind my business up it took a lot of planning & advice from my accountant of 30 years & only after did I realise how much he’d saved me even after paying eye watering money to HMRC.
Once they are here & have claimed asylum they are legal until their claim is judged. Then they stay legally or are deported.
The Uk has always needed cheap labour & thats the area of the labour market they mostly fill. It’s always been the case going way back.
Migrants from wherever they hail usually start at the bottom the world over.
Our canals were almost entirely built by immigrant Irish navies, like wise the railways & navy ships. Also the armed forces historically had large groups of Scot’s & Irish.
As to why they want to come you can mostly blame our colonial past & the empire connection.
So who should decide on treaties and diplomatic matters to avoid conflict surely not the military it's not their function. If you go down that route with unelected people deciding on foreign policy you're heading to a military dictatorship
You mentioned planning and advice but of course fees too. I think they've had it good for too long it's the reason it's attracted people who never would otherwise have even considered farming.
When the big farms are sold they will as like go to international corporates who will have plenty of top accountants to manage the tax affairs ,they will not be part of the local community with any interest in its future but just another investment. I would also expect the Chinese government to give the big food producing farms the once over, they seem to be buying property all over the world.
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
That's not correct. The majority were English. (A recent Canal documentary series also covered it)
Nor would other people of Ireland, Scotland or Wales in those times be thought of as immigrants would they?That's not correct. The majority were English. (A recent Canal documentary series also covered it)
Be better than the government we have now….
I think that earlier generations who fought to save our democracy might be disappointed to hear people advocating autocracy. At least we have an opportunity to change things every few years. Democracy and capitalism might have their faults but I haven’t seen any evidence that there are any better systems to be found elsewhere on this planet.
‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’
Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
Maybe you would prefer to live in Russia? No democracy to speak of there
Having lived in Slough I can certainly confirm it was always referred to as an immigrant town with influxes from Ireland Wales,Commonwealth areas, and most lately E,U. and former states from behind the "Iron Curtain". In order to save for a house deposit my wife and I lived very cheaply in a house share of 8 couples spread across a 4 bedroom detached property, with a communal kitchen and 1 bathroomNor would other people of Ireland, Scotland or Wales in those times be thought of as immigrants would they?
but it was cheap rent. Owned by an entrepreneurial Yugoslav.Mike.
Ho ho,
I think the main problem here is down to the usual suspects, wealthy businessman or companies who use the farm land purchase as a tax dodge ?
Your average family farm (at least in these parts) aren't rolling in money and having to sell off land to pay IHT makes it even harder for them to get an income from a reduced acreage.
Once it's in place, you just watch the conglomerates start buying up the land, taking it out of food production so they can claim the re-wilding grants, or turning it over to whole-crop for their grant funded biomass digesters that us poor power bill payers are subsidising with the biggest gas/leccy bills in Europe.
Your average family farm (at least in these parts) aren't rolling in money and having to sell off land to pay IHT makes it even harder for them to get an income from a reduced acreage.
Once it's in place, you just watch the conglomerates start buying up the land, taking it out of food production so they can claim the re-wilding grants, or turning it over to whole-crop for their grant funded biomass digesters that us poor power bill payers are subsidising with the biggest gas/leccy bills in Europe.
One solution would be to scrap IHT, Business Rates and Council Tax and introduce a Land Value Tax (LVT) paid annually. The only downside would be the howls of complaints from :- Large land owners, The Church, Royal Family, Multi Nationals such as Amazon, Universities such Oxbridge Colleges and many other organisations. The only fly in the ointment is common land such as parks and some open spaces. These problems are not insurmountable. I can't claim any original thought as LVT's have been proposed for over 200 years. This is a more equitable way of collecting taxes as the owners of property cannot evade tax on land as you cannot move it out of the country.
Subscribers do not see these advertisements
Join us or log in to post a reply.
To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun
Join MotorhomeFun
Join us, it quick and easy!
Log in
Already a member? Log in here.