You can buy a 2019 Zoe through Renault used cars with 1500 miles on it for £14,400, and they are £29,000 new on the same site... thats £10 a mile depreciation . They are quoting an 'average price' year on year .. its simple maths. When you put more nearly new stock into the used market , it pushes the average up, it doesnt make any of them worth any more. 3 cars , two at £6k and one at £12k, average price is £8k .. one at £6k and 2 at £12k average is £10k .. they are still the same cars , still the same selling price. Its a smokescreen to try and hide the fact that they lose money faster than you can burn it . If they were selling , at good money, they wouldnt be discounting them £15k at 1500 miles old would they . They are either selling , so you dont have to give them away, or they arent , and if they arent, then they cant be a good buy used either.
Electric Motorhome a Reality but at a cost
- Thread starter MichaelT
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airwave
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LOL , hope their better than the TNT trucks . They vor'd their electric fleet after a week . They got fed up with towing them back , despite them doing the closest run to the depot . The fact is , a viable electric truck is still many years away , and even then weight will be an issue . Long range heavy haulage may never arrive , and if it did , i can honestly see the weight limit being substantial raised , which will give rise to other serious associated problems .
airwave
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Honest opinion , there won't be any . In my personal opinion , i don't think motorhomes as we know them , have a future long term . I think a few companies may dabble , but the cost will put them beyond the reach of the people who would want them and they will slowly disappear . It's more likely some form of micro camper or folding motorhome will appear , along the lines of what's happening in Japan now , but it certainly won't be anything that we will recognise . Just for the record , i also think private car ownership in the long term is coming to an end too .
You say that like they used to be cheap and affordable.. they never have been, In fact i would say the opposite, The way they are built now, means a small coachbuilt can be had for not a lot of money and there is no shortage of used stock. The price is driven by demand, and the fact that people are buying high end stuff , with finance , says they have the disposable income to do it. The japanese phenomenon is down to the fact that they have no space to park anything,and strict rules controlling it .
airwave
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Lol , quite the contrary Phil , it's the new stuff that will be (to put it bluntly) , bloody expensive . I'm not talking tomorrow , or even next year . Actually i doubt i'll see it , but in the long term . I would expect twice , maybe even three times what they are now . Another point is , they will be heavy , 3.5 plus , no one will be able to drive them on a standard licence . Yes they can be built lighter , but then they will only fall apart quicker like modern heavy trucks , built light to carry more . Range will be limited and a boost charge severely limited . As already stated most charge points are designed for cars .
I totally agree with your statement regarding second hand , you are quite correct . However lets not forget our government has decided , it wants us in electric cars . They will make that happen , trust me , and i do expect to see that begin in my life time ..
And just one last point , do you really think the japanese phenomenon couldn't happen here , I mean like really ? .
Cause from where i'm standing , it looks to me like it's already started mate .
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I see more and more people doing Day Van conversions, but most of those seem to be an excuse to buy a T4 or T5.. nothing wrong with that, i grew up in T1 and T2 campers, but the 'self build' thing seems to be fashionable these days. The whole 'tiny house' thing is just people looking for a an excuse for living in a shipping container at the bottom of mummy and daddy's garden.
Honestly, i think the EV thing is going to be a long term cluster$£$! , and even the most fervent fan has to look at EV campers and think ' nope'
- Aug 22, 2017
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In New Zealand you can already hire an electric motorhome:
www.britz.com
Campervan Hire New Zealand | Britz Campervans NZ
Experience the wonders of New Zealand with campervans for hire from Britz. View our range between 2 and 6 berth campervans, book today!
www.britz.com
120KM range... thats like having a 4 gallon fuel tank you need to fill with a thimble.In New Zealand you can already hire an electric motorhome:
Campervan Hire New Zealand | Britz Campervans NZ
Experience the wonders of New Zealand with campervans for hire from Britz. View our range between 2 and 6 berth campervans, book today!
- Aug 22, 2017
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If you can charge at campsites / campgrounds, it would make sense (in that country at least -- no great mileages on each island, I don't think).
Its 900 niles long and 250 miles wide. And its very very rural Have friends that have toured it in an RV and said it was great , as long as you like seeing nobody for days.
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- Aug 22, 2017
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Maybe stick to the Isle of Wight in an eMotorhome then
We had electric milk floats on the farm next door they weighed three ton +, and would go out every morning OK ,but limp home at 2 mph in the afternoon to be charged up again for the next day . They did about ten miles on the two ton of batteries, but they were lead acid ones though.
I cannot get it out of my head when I hear about electric car running on 2500 torch batteries I also remember bike lights that lasted about 3/4 of an hour before replacements needed. CANT HELP IT! batteries are still in my mind as weak sources of power..
I would like a Tesla though but they are well out of it cost wise.
I cannot get it out of my head when I hear about electric car running on 2500 torch batteries I also remember bike lights that lasted about 3/4 of an hour before replacements needed. CANT HELP IT! batteries are still in my mind as weak sources of power..
I would like a Tesla though but they are well out of it cost wise.
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The whirr of the early morning electric milkfloat is still embedded in my memory from decades ago. I believe some people also used them as unofficial transport home after a particularly heavy night on the tiles... I couldn't possibly comment.
airwave
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Jeeze 120 , is that it . Lmao , that's a shade over 70 miles , and i bet ya struggle to get that ! .
Yes Phil , i had noticed the day van's too . Actually we got one in the street , never leaves his drive , but it does keep his Bedford TK company . I had looked into a t4 myself a few years back , but i couldn't get past the ridiculous prices they sold for . They do hold their value , but their too rich for me .
I really don't think the tiny home concept will take off in this country , but i think your summing up of the ev market is spot on . Lets get real here and use this excuse for one above , 120 klicks . By my calculations thats 75 miles . At best , in perfect conditions , with no head winds . Now lets not forget the wipers , electric , oh the light's , ah electric again . Then there's the biggy , the heater , what ya know that's also electric . So on a really crappy day your 75 miles has dropped to 50 if your lucky , but then we haven't even started on the inside , it would have to be electric cooking , and heating , anything else negates the whole point of the exercise . And you wanna charge up overnight on a campsite , while on ehu , is that at 6amps , sorry but talk about electric dreams . Even if you could find a site with it's own substation , you can't quib at the 120 quid a night .
Your absolutely bang on , they would have to say nah .
There will be people that say ' well that mileage is plenty for blah blah blah... reality is that my fuel light comes on with 60 miles range on , and when it does, you are looking for fuel straight away, Who is going to spend £100k to buy range anxiety? I know people who have a meltdown when their phone gets to 20%.
The upshot is that policy is being set by people who have no grasp of reality . If people want EV's , that's fine, but the nut huggers who keep spouting how popular they are , seem to forget the fact that they are subsidised to death, against a product that is taxed and legislated out of existence. The irony is , that my diesel car is £30 a year to tax , based on its emissions, to either it pollutes , or it doesn't . Its one step away from being free, so which is it.
I am away this weekend ,1100 miles in 4 days , not even remotely viable to do in anything other than an ICE vehicle, nor will it ever be.
Its a fantasy Utopia that the pursuit of will kill off economies.
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- Oct 30, 2016
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[QUOTE="PhilG, post: 3510
I am away this weekend ,1100 miles in 4 days , not even remotely viable to do in anything other than an ICE vehicle, nor will it ever be.
Its a fantasy Utopia that the pursuit of will kill off economies.
[/QUOTE]
Absolute tosh!
I can easily get 230+ miles from mine, charged up overnight, start again, or if doing that mileage over 2 days (550 a day) will mean a couple of stops totalling about 1 1/2 hours, or do you do 550 miles without a break?
I am away this weekend ,1100 miles in 4 days , not even remotely viable to do in anything other than an ICE vehicle, nor will it ever be.
Its a fantasy Utopia that the pursuit of will kill off economies.
[/QUOTE]
Absolute tosh!
I can easily get 230+ miles from mine, charged up overnight, start again, or if doing that mileage over 2 days (550 a day) will mean a couple of stops totalling about 1 1/2 hours, or do you do 550 miles without a break?
Until they manage to produce graphene-based batteries on an industrial scale (and my understanding is that it won't be anytime soon) then energy density will always be the killer as far as EVs are concerned and especially with vehicles subject to the 3.5 tonne limit. With current, and immediate future, technology the weight of batteries required to achieve practical range plus time required for charging makes EVs impractical except for relatively short journeys. If you passed your test recently or are over 70 with no C1 then even that is questionable.
In addition they are not as green as they make out for all the reasons mentioned in earlier posts (and it wasn't just oil companies who came to that conclusion, Greenpeace agree!)
When people talk about the life of the batteries they rarely specify what percentage of original performance denotes "End of Life". As we all know, batteries steadily degrade from Day 1. My laptop has a sophisticated battery and charging system but after 3 years it will only run for about 2.5 hours compared to the 4+ it managed when new. Every time I ask an EV dealer about battery life they faff about and give some woolly answer which amounts to "we don't know". They also get very evasive when asked about the cost of replacement. Think about it; a half decent Lithium habitation battery is at least £1000. How much for 30 + of them? Makes that Nissan leasing deal almost look like good sense!
Neither has anyone mentioned safety. The voltages used in EVs can be huge; F1 cars have to have a green light to indicate to mechanics and trackside marshalls that the car is safe to touch. What happens when you have a crash in your EV? Vehicles with Xenon Discharge headlamps had sensors to cut the powewr supply in the event of a crash; what will protect you from the severed high voltage cables in your EV?
Notwithstanding, the killer factor for me is that all the near future and far future battery technologies require rare elements such as lithium and I don't believe that there's enough of it to power an entirely EV world's consumption.
No, the Toyota Prius and the Honda Insight sent the entire automobile in the wrong direction. It was an easy and cheap fix to a politically embarrassing problem which politicians and most of Joe Public swallowed wholesale without understanding the true facts.
Whether it has pistons that go up and down or some other form of converting heat to kinetic energy the vehicles of the future should be powered by hydrogen. Long-term, the cost of creating the supply infrastructure is not that huge, especially as the short refuelling time means that we won't need any extra refuelling stations than we have for our current vehicles. Environmentally it is at least as green as batteries. It will not require Mr Musk to go to Mars to get the rare elements required to make it work. From many conversations with both "car" people and Joe Public, the biggest problem is persuading people that a tank of hydrogen is no more dangerous than the tank of 4* they currently drive round with. Perhaps if they changed the name to something like Adgas? Or put a perfume in it?
In addition they are not as green as they make out for all the reasons mentioned in earlier posts (and it wasn't just oil companies who came to that conclusion, Greenpeace agree!)
When people talk about the life of the batteries they rarely specify what percentage of original performance denotes "End of Life". As we all know, batteries steadily degrade from Day 1. My laptop has a sophisticated battery and charging system but after 3 years it will only run for about 2.5 hours compared to the 4+ it managed when new. Every time I ask an EV dealer about battery life they faff about and give some woolly answer which amounts to "we don't know". They also get very evasive when asked about the cost of replacement. Think about it; a half decent Lithium habitation battery is at least £1000. How much for 30 + of them? Makes that Nissan leasing deal almost look like good sense!
Neither has anyone mentioned safety. The voltages used in EVs can be huge; F1 cars have to have a green light to indicate to mechanics and trackside marshalls that the car is safe to touch. What happens when you have a crash in your EV? Vehicles with Xenon Discharge headlamps had sensors to cut the powewr supply in the event of a crash; what will protect you from the severed high voltage cables in your EV?
Notwithstanding, the killer factor for me is that all the near future and far future battery technologies require rare elements such as lithium and I don't believe that there's enough of it to power an entirely EV world's consumption.
No, the Toyota Prius and the Honda Insight sent the entire automobile in the wrong direction. It was an easy and cheap fix to a politically embarrassing problem which politicians and most of Joe Public swallowed wholesale without understanding the true facts.
Whether it has pistons that go up and down or some other form of converting heat to kinetic energy the vehicles of the future should be powered by hydrogen. Long-term, the cost of creating the supply infrastructure is not that huge, especially as the short refuelling time means that we won't need any extra refuelling stations than we have for our current vehicles. Environmentally it is at least as green as batteries. It will not require Mr Musk to go to Mars to get the rare elements required to make it work. From many conversations with both "car" people and Joe Public, the biggest problem is persuading people that a tank of hydrogen is no more dangerous than the tank of 4* they currently drive round with. Perhaps if they changed the name to something like Adgas? Or put a perfume in it?
- Aug 22, 2017
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Policy is being set by people who live in big cities, in the UK principally London.
I have lived in cities including London as well as in the back end of beyond.
In London, if you are not disabled, you can even live without a vehicle -- probably the only place in the UK -- as public transport is ubiquitous, affordable and runs pretty much around the clock.
Way out in the sticks it's a different story: at least an hour's journey just to get some basic supplies. And the local infrastructure couldn't even supply a two-phase supply to a nearby business when requested as it was at capacity already, so try charging some vehicles. To paraphrase: you would have to prise my diesel from my cold dead hand.
2x2camper
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Then perhaps we should be asking ourselves why we need to do such high milages
Use a paper clip to short out one of those "torch" batteries - the result will change your mind. There's one in my vape thingy that allows a current draw of up to 20A. Normal draw when I use it is 6A and it lasts a couple of days between charges
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