Electric issues

RagnarViking

RagnarViking

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FiatDucato2005
Hello everyone,
I am new to Motorhome, just bought few days ago 2005 Fiat Duato Burstner 530 with 2.0jtd. Previous oner neglected this Motorhome as it was left 6 months on the driveway without charging leisure battery. When I bought it, both batteries were dead. I bought starter and leisure batteries BUT: 12V works when engine runs (water pump inside water tank stops working after some time) but 12V on fully charged leisure battery (engine off) doesn't work at all (no green light on the panel above the door) When hooked up to 230V have power in the sockets but fridge and water don't work. Checked and cleaned all the fuses and connectors and no difference. It has Electoblock EBL99 which I switched off before changed batteries, so my only conclusion is faulty EBL99 after being left with dead batteries for 6 months? Anyone has similar experience or anyone know the problem solution please, any advice would be appreciated.
Regards
Ragnar
 
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Peavy said:
So, you've got voltage reading from leisure battery without engine running?
Click to expand...
I had upto 10 mins ago! Was advised to disconnect, take out and clean with contact cleaner EBL99. While connecting 2 brown wires to the back panel get a spark and since then nothing works anymore, even on engine running.
 
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Brown wires are normally negative on German vans. Normally on the back of an EBL just 3 wires Negative, Starter battery & Leisure Battery.
Have you blown the 50 amp fuse by the leisure battery.
 
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Lenny HB said:
Brown wires are normally negative on German vans. Normally on the back of an EBL just 3 wires Negative, Starter battery & Leisure Battery.
Have you blown the 50 amp fuse by the leisure battery
Click to expand...

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The user manual is available, it has a wiring diagram near the back that might be helpful:

Did you double-check the back panel connections? The colours are definitely not what you'd expect from working on UK vehicles. On mine, leisure battery (WB) positive is black, starter battery (SB) positive is red, and the negatives are brown.

The main feed from the leisure battery to the EBL has a 50A fuse very near the leisure battery, and there is also a 2A fuse for the voltage sensor wire too. The main feed from the starter battery to the EBL has a 50A fuse very near the starter battery, and there is probably another two fuses next to it. A 20A fuse for the fridge heater element, and a 2A or 5A fuse for the D+ (engine running) signal from the alternator.

For the alternator to charge the leisure battery while the engine is running, both those two 50A fuses need to be OK, and also the D+ fuse.
 
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Sorry everyone for this fals alarm everything is as it was before so please ignore the last post. 12V works while engine is running, but when switched off 12V green light on the panel after 10 sec is off as well ad no power i sockets or lights at all.
 
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autorouter said:
The user manual is available, it has a wiring diagram near the back that might be helpful:

Did you double-check the back panel connections? The colours are definitely not what you'd expect from working on UK vehicles. On mine, leisure battery (WB) positive is black, starter battery (SB) positive is red, and the negatives are brown.

The main feed from the leisure battery to the EBL has a 50A fuse very near the leisure battery, and there is also a 2A fuse for the voltage sensor wire too. The main feed from the starter battery to the EBL has a 50A fuse very near the starter battery, and there is probably another two fuses next to it. A 20A fuse for the fridge heater element, and a 2A or 5A fuse for the D+ (engine running) signal from the alternator.

For the alternator to charge the leisure battery while the engine is running, both those two 50A fuses need to be OK, and also the D+ fuse.
Click to expand...
Thank you Autorouter for your message, everything is connected correctly and works again only while engine running.
Regards
 
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RagnarViking said:
Yes I have again
Click to expand...



IMG_20240508_203249.jpg

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One thing to check - if you put a fuse in the 'Zusatz Ladegerat' slot, and look at the voltage at the 'Zus.-Lade' socket (Block7). A 20A fuse is specified, but any fuse is OK if you just want as voltage reading. That will tell you if the leisure battery voltage is reaching the EBL through the main feed on the back panel.

Note that if the panel is reading the leisure battery voltage, that reading is coming along the battery sensor wire and that 2A fuse I mentioned previously. It doesn't mean that the main power feed is working.
 
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autorouter said:
One thing to check - if you put a fuse in the 'Zusatz Ladegerat' slot, and look at the voltage at the 'Zus.-Lade' socket (Block7). A 20A fuse is specified, but any fuse is OK if you just want as voltage reading. That will tell you if the leisure battery voltage is reaching the EBL through the main feed on the back panel.

Note that if the panel is reading the leisure battery voltage, that reading is coming along the battery sensor wire and that 2A fuse I mentioned previously. It doesn't mean that the main power feed is working.
Click to expand...
 
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12.7V on block 7. Thank you



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Welcome. When you say the pump runs for a few seconds, is that with a tap open. It may just be the pump priming each time? All the other fun steps above will be able to help you with your power supply much better than I can.

In my van the 12v system disengages when the engine is turned on and only the fridge is powered. Do others know if the Burnster’s 12v system can stay on when engine running?

Were you able to check fuses with a multi meter for continuity. Sometimes a visual check can give a false reading.

Cush
 
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Cush said:
Welcome. When you say the pump runs for a few seconds, is that with a tap open. It may just be the pump priming each time? All the other fun steps above will be able to help you with your power supply much better than I can.

In my van the 12v system disengages when the engine is turned on and only the fridge is powered. Do others know if the Burnster’s 12v system can stay on when engine running?

Cush
Click to expand...
Thank you for replying Cush. Everything works on 12V when engine running ( light, sockets, fridge and water pump) Water pump works when taps open and stops when closed, which makes sense, but when taps open again then no water and pump doesn't work.
Regards
 
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That is strange. I need to go back and read the thread carefully to see what the fault finding has thrown up.

The initial power on 12 v to me is very odd.

Where are you on the Island? Although I don’t know if I would have the skills but willing to have a look. I can also share a hab guy’s name if you send me a private message
 
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Cush said:
That is strange. I need to go back and read the thread carefully to see what the fault finding has thrown up.

The initial power on 12 v to me is very odd.

Where are you on the Island? Although I don’t know if I would have the skills but willing to have a look. I can also share a hab guy’s name if you send me a private message
Click to expand...
Thanks Cush.
My biggest concern is lack of 12V from leisure battery even though leisure battery voltage is reaching the EBL through the main feed on the back panel. I am in Douglas
 
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Going back to basics it sounds like the starter and leisure battery connections in the back of the EBL are crossed.

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Lenny HB said:
Going back to basics it sounds like the starter and leisure battery connections in the back of the EBL are crossed.
Click to expand...
Not the best photo quality but you can see 2 brown negatives going to the back of EBL to the same spot (I think the is no other way to do it)



IMG_20240508_160118.jpg
 
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Another check is to put a fuse in the Reserve 4 slot, and measure the voltage at Pin1 of Block5. Should be the same voltage as the leisure battery, if the two-state relay is in the ON state. That's the relay that's turned on/off by the battery cutoff switch, the one Lenny HB says you should never switch off. So if there's no voltage there, that relay is OFF. If the battery cutoff switch is ON, then that relay isn't working.

It's not like a standard relay, which turns on when energised, and clicks off when not energised. It's a two-state relay, that requires a pulse to flip it to the ON state, and an opposite pulse to flip it to the OFF state. It remains in whatever state it is in, unless a pulse changes its state. The pulse is provided by a chip, which is triggered by that on/off switch.
 
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RagnarViking said:
Not the best photo quality but you can see 2 brown negatives going to the back of EBL to the same spot (I think the is no other way to do it)



View attachment 894813
Click to expand...
I can't see 2 brown wires, I can see 1 black wire, 1 brown & 1 red.
Brown should be negative, black positive to leisure battery and red positive to starter battery.
 
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autorouter said:
Another check is to put a fuse in the Reserve 4 slot, and measure the voltage at Pin1 of Block5. Should be the same voltage as the leisure battery, if the two-state relay is in the ON state. That's the relay that's turned on/off by the battery cutoff switch, the one Lenny HB says you should never switch off. So if there's no voltage there, that relay is OFF. If the battery cutoff switch is ON, then that relay isn't working.

It's not like a standard relay, which turns on when energised, and clicks off when not energised. It's a two-state relay, that requires a pulse to flip it to the ON state, and an opposite pulse to flip it to the OFF state. It remains in whatever state it is in, unless a pulse changes its state. The pulse is provided by a chip, which is triggered by that on/off switch.
Click to expand...
Thanks Autorouter, relay I think is ok as when is off it dumps the water from the boiler when is on I can pull emergency valve to stop water running from the boiler. Of course I could be wrong.
Regards
Regards
 
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Lenny HB said:
I can't see 2 brown wires, I can see 1 black wire, 1 brown & 1 red.
Brown should be negative, black positive to leisure battery and red positive to starter battery.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the previous photo as it wasn't showing as it should.



IMG_20240509_082453.jpg

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RagnarViking said:
Thanks Autorouter, relay I think is ok as when is off it dumps the water from the boiler when is on I can pull emergency valve to stop water running from the boiler. Of course I could be wrong.
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The frost protection valve, which dumps the boiler water as you say, is not actually switched on by the relay. The battery cutoff switch is a two-pole changeover switch. One of the poles signals the chip to flip the relay, the other pole directly powers the frost protection valve.

So the fact that it is working only shows that one half of the switch is working, not that the relay is working. You need to look at something else that is switched on by the relay, such as the Reserve4 circuit on Block5 Pin1, with the Reserve4 fuse inserted.

Or you could try the electric step and/or the step light. Both are powered from that relay, so if it's on they should work.
 
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autorouter said:
The frost protection valve, which dumps the boiler water as you say, is not actually switched on by the relay. The battery cutoff switch is a two-pole changeover switch. One of the poles signals the chip to flip the relay, the other pole directly powers the frost protection valve.

So the fact that it is working only shows that one half of the switch is working, not that the relay is working. You need to look at something else that is switched on by the relay, such as the Reserve4 circuit on Block5 Pin1, with the Reserve4 fuse inserted.

Or you could try the electric step and/or the step light. Both are powered from that relay, so if it's on they should work.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for your help Autorouter and LennyHB.
No power on block 5 pin 1, nad I dont hear "the click" from relay when switching 12V on leisure batter, I can hear it when switching 12V while engine running.
Any solution how to fix it please?
Tried on/off dozens of times but no change.
Regards
 
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RagnarViking said:
No power on block 5 pin 1, nad I dont hear "the click" from relay when switching 12V on leisure batter, I can hear it when switching 12V while engine running.
Any solution how to fix it please?
Tried on/off dozens of times but no change.
Click to expand...
Another thing to check is the small 2A fuse near the leisure battery, next to the big 50A fuse. If that fuse has blown, the chip in the EBL won't turn anything on. If that's OK, then it sounds to me like that relay has failed. It will need to be unsoldered and a new one resoldered in. If you're not happy doing things like that, you can send it off to be fixed. Aplujack Electronics will do it, the link is in B-well's post #7.
B-well said:
Repair - Send your unit to us for a full professional examination in our Electronics Labs. Our repairs benefit from a 1 year warranty on all the parts and labour that we use. For this unit we do not need your control panel. For full details of the advantages of our repairs service please [Broken Link Removed]
Click to expand...
Also A&N Caravan Services will do it

Motorhome/Caravan Servicing, repairs for most Battery Chargers

Most Motorhome/Caravan Battery chargers repaired. Schaudt Elektroblock, Nordelettronica, Calira, Arsilicii, Toptron, Plug In Systems and Burstner Reich E-Box repairs a speciality.
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk
 
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autorouter said:
Another thing to check is the small 2A fuse near the leisure battery, next to the big 50A fuse. If that fuse has blown, the chip in the EBL won't turn anything on. If that's OK, then it sounds to me like that relay has failed. It will need to be unsoldered and a new one resoldered in. If you're not happy doing things like that, you can send it off to be fixed. Aplujack Electronics will do it, the link is in B-well's post #7.

Also A&N Caravan Services will do it

Motorhome/Caravan Servicing, repairs for most Battery Chargers

Most Motorhome/Caravan Battery chargers repaired. Schaudt Elektroblock, Nordelettronica, Calira, Arsilicii, Toptron, Plug In Systems and Burstner Reich E-Box repairs a speciality.
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk
Click to expand...
Thank you so much again Autorouter. Will call few people o
autorouter said:
Another thing to check is the small 2A fuse near the leisure battery, next to the big 50A fuse. If that fuse has blown, the chip in the EBL won't turn anything on. If that's OK, then it sounds to me like that relay has failed. It will need to be unsoldered and a new one resoldered in. If you're not happy doing things like that, you can send it off to be fixed. Aplujack Electronics will do it, the link is in B-well's post #7.

Also A&N Caravan Services will do it

Motorhome/Caravan Servicing, repairs for most Battery Chargers

Most Motorhome/Caravan Battery chargers repaired. Schaudt Elektroblock, Nordelettronica, Calira, Arsilicii, Toptron, Plug In Systems and Burstner Reich E-Box repairs a speciality.
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk
Click to expand...
Thank you so much again Autorouter, 2A fuse is good, will try to call few local specialists to fix this relay before I send it to UK.
Thank you everyone for help, advice and support. Wish you many safe and exciting journeys.
Regards

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RagnarViking said:
will try to call few local specialists to fix this relay before I send it to UK.
Click to expand...
Sorry, didn't realise you are not in UK. The manufacturer Schaudt do a good repair sevice, they are in Markdorf in Germany. If you are in EU that may be a better option, with all the cross-border nonsense now that the UK isn't. Schaudt is now Lippert Europe.

Home | Lippert Europe

Lippert is the leading supplier of highly engineered products for the European leisure and caravanning industries.
www.lippertcomponents.eu
 
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