Electric drop down beds

[Wellington]

Can they be fixed at any height for sleeping or transit, or only at preset positions? I am only 5 foot tall, and my ten-agear has yet to reach even theses dizzy heights. This means we don’t need nearly the amount of headroom provided in most MHs. I’m wondering if I can lower the bed to a height that works for her, and I can still walk underneath without farting about with beds every day?!

 

[dalspa]

its obvious that underneath youre not a good fit with this van......for so many reasons...
so, Change of tack....
have a look at this lovely used Burstner Argos....
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=233535608696
huge everything, garage, double floor, large rear transverse bad, huge overcab....eithr could be the cave...
cab plays no part in accommodation so car seat can be left in place...
good price..
available at GMC Gailey.....Dave will bite your hand off for the Compactline....
.....do it before you butcher the poor thing....
good luck...

One big problem with the Argos is that Wellington can only drive vehicles up to 3500kg at the moment.

 

[Compactliner]

ah,i didnt realise that....
i ink there might be there a number of lighter similar vans in the Auto Roller range?
however, i think ill leave this discussion as there are too many issues and too many compromises.
chopping a van about cant be the way forward....i dont see how part of the 'tent' around the drop down bed can be dispensed with....its an all enclosing item, not in parts, from memory.
youll eventually come to sell it the last thing any prospective Carthago owner will want is a 'modified'van....not in that class of van....theyll just go elsewhere.
i wish you luck but my advice remains the same....learn to live with the van and change a couple of ergonomic elements like putting the car seat somewhere else which will cure that issue and also the compromised seating issue ypu have as a consequense.....OR change it.
good luck.

 

[Minxy]

chopping a van about cant be the way forward....i dont see how part of the 'tent' around the drop down bed can be dispensed with....its an all enclosing item, not in parts, from memory.

Replacing the existing 'tent' with a replacement made to Welly's requirements won't be an issue as the original can be put back in the future.

youll eventually come to sell it the last thing any prospective Carthago owner will want is a 'modified'van....not in that class of van....theyll just go elsewhere.

It really depends on the mods and how well they are done, so long as the changes don't make it off-putting for a new owner or compromise it, then it shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Compactliner]

Mel, Im just being the Devil's Advocate here.....this is a costly van and IMV not something to undertake lightly.

Im not sure the 'tent can be replaced'....its screwed in at the top and, from memory, its one enormous piece that goes round three sides of the bed, has strategically placed elastic sections and guide pieces to allow it to neatly fold correctly when the bed is raised...i cant see how one portion can be 'removed' without it being cut to remove/replace a section and for it thus to ne 'permanent'.

i can see a potential idea of a roll up 'blind/window' but IMV this can only be acheived by cutting the original or by removing the whole lot, neither seems easy as it would need to be done in situe (taking out/altering/replacing the whole curtain is a big, big, job especially for someone who is lacking strength and flexibility) and altering the original should only be done if the van is a lifetime keeper....
i dont see that sort of 'love' in W's posts....in fact, far more of the opposite.

if a buyer had a choice of three similar vans and one had 'mods' in whatever area, there is a good chance the search would be focussed on the other two...

i know from a previous stint on this forum that you are a 'fettler/tinkerer/modifier' but i am not, and many buyers arent either....when spending Carthago money theyll want what they want, not what someone else has thought to be a good idea.

before buying this new i138 i looked at a low mileage used version a bit closer to home but the 'clever' owner had altered so much that it just put me off straight away...lovely van and im sure those mods were of great use to him....but not everyone is as necessarily overjoyed with passed on changes as the person who thought they were wonderful when they made them.

if i wanted a van with a bed with a window and an overcab bed that stayed at a particular height and a one that allowed me to keep a car seat in a particular position whether parked or driving I'd get a van that satisfied all these requirements.

anyway, good luck W. id like to see some pictures of the altered bed...

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[tonyidle]

Modifications, if done correctly, should appear to be OEM and effectively invisible to a purchaser. Or they should be completely removable. I've altered every van I've owned. I say altered - I mean reassembled correctly.

 

[Compactliner]

...or they should be completely reversible.....as i said.
i changed the 'expanding' wardrobe in ours so that the hanging rail ran transversely and not longitudinally...i now have about three times the capacity...
easy reverse to put back the original rail...
anyway....ill let the fettlers carry on...

 

[Minxy]

Mel, Im just being the Devil's Advocate here.....this is a costly van and IMV not something to undertake lightly.

Agreed, unless you are sure you shouldn't do stuff that could affect a future sale.

Im not sure the 'tent can be replaced'....its screwed in at the top and, from memory, its one enormous piece that goes round three sides of the bed, has strategically placed elastic sections and guide pieces to allow it to neatly fold correctly when the bed is raised...i cant see how one portion can be 'removed' without it being cut to remove/replace a section and for it thus to ne 'permanent'.

I was referring to Welly's suggestion of removing it completely and making a new 'bespoke' one for herself, there's nothing to stop just the bottom poppers or the original one being detached and for it then to be rolled up to the top and secured so that when it needs to be put back as it was it could simply be unrolled and re-popped. A bespoke one could then be fitted using a method that wouldn't damage the surround etc with the necessary 'elastic' etc to ensure it didn't snag, but give the ability to open it/close it as required.

i can see a potential idea of a roll up 'blind/window' but IMV this can only be acheived by cutting the original or by removing the whole lot, neither seems easy and altering the original should only be done if the van is a lifetime keeper....

Agreed and if it wasn't going to be a keeper then I wouldn't alter the original either.

i dont see that sort of 'love' in W's posts....in fact, far more of the opposite.

I don't totally agree with that but I think Welly needs to decide, as I have suggested before, that she does some more thinking about it before 'attacking' anything.

if a buyer had a choice of three similar vans and one had 'mods' in whatever area, there is a good chance the search would be focussed on the other two...

i know from a previous stint on this forum that you are a 'fettler/tinkerer/modifier' but i am not, and many buyers arent either....when spending Carthago money theyll want what they want, not what someone else has thought to be a good idea.

Which is why the vast majority of stuff I do is reversible.

before buying this new i138 i looked at a low mileage used version a bit closer to home but the 'clever' owner had altered so much that it just put me off straight away...lovely van and im sure those mods were of great use to him....but not everyone is as necessarily overjoyed with passed on changes as the person who thought they were wonderful when they made them.

It depends on the mod I suppose and how well it is done, making stuff 'too bespoke' is an issue as is 'damaging' the fixtures/fittings in the process that can't be sorted afterwards, something which I've come across and has indeed put me off ... I remember one member on another forum happily advising someone how to fit a TV in their MH (no specific storage cupboard etc for it), he thought his idea of secure his TV to the spare bit of worktop in his MH was great ... he literally screw it down! No way would I EVER do something like that.

if i wanted a van with a bed with a window and an overcab bed that stayed at a particular height and a one that allowed me to keep a car seat in a particular position whether parked or driving I'd get a van that satisfied all these requirements.

The problem with that is whether such a beast exists and at what price, only the person wanting the changes will be able to determine that.

anyway, good luck W. id like to see some pictures of the altered bed...

Me too!

 

[tonyidle]

..or they should be completely reversible.....

As I said .

 

[SpeedyDux]

Just on the point of legs dangling because of seat heights, which we also find uncomfortable, lowering the seats seems a bit drastic.

Folding step stool is a very cheap solution. There are other simple things that can be used as a footrest. A bath step for example. Works for us.

As for the drop down bed issues there seem to be enough knowledgeable comments. I wouldn't want an electric one ever, because that's a hostage to Murphy's Law. If it can go wrong, it will.

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[thebriars]

As for the drop down bed issues there seem to be enough knowledgeable comments. I wouldn't want an electric one ever, because that's a hostage to Murphy's Law. If it can go wrong, it will.

With that sort of outlook, a troglodyte existence would probably be wise.

 

[tonyidle]

[QUOTE="SpeedyDux, post: 3938163, member:

As for the drop down bed issues there seem to be enough knowledgeable comments. I wouldn't want an electric one ever, because that's a hostage to Murphy's Law. If it can go wrong, it will.
[/QUOTE]
I agree on the basis that wherever mh converters install "user friendly" controls the downside is complexity. That wouldn't matter if the electronics were used for other purposes and had the benefits of effective testing and volume production. But they don't - they're made for a very limited market and in general are under-developed. There is no reason for a bed lift system to be more complex than a motor or two, two to four limit switches, two relays and two control buttons. However to keep it very simple the user would have to hold the relevant button until the bed was where it was needed. How much simpler for the user to simply touch the button with the rest taken care of? And that last facility causes complexity but saves money. I'm pleased that mine is just as I've described and the lift motors are industry-standard linear actuators. As such I like the automation.

 

[Wellington]

It’s not a dealbreaker, I had my C1 medical on Monday. I was looking at a C line or a C tourer and many of them are on the heavy chassis.

That is my concern too from what has been said previously.

Welly ... (hope you don't mind me calling you that) take a breath, sit back and make a list of pros/cons for your existing MH before you do anything ... only when you are sure you can live with it if you get the changes you want made should you attempt to do them, until then keep your mitts of it's knobs and twiddly bits!

don’t mind a jot what anyone calls me (within reason!). Interestingly, I do have a list of what I want in a van, and the 138 ticks every box except the second bed and an additional outside locker for ‘dirty’ shortage (mainly the bbq. I do admit to hankering a little bit after an L shaped kitchen, and twin beds for the second wardrobe. Don’t know if it’s worth the length, though) I don’t have an issue modifying things. Obviously I’d prefer it didn’t look like a hatchet job, but I’d still rather it worked for me, now. I spent years making sacrifices now for a future that never was. My motto is “deal with the now”.

A hundred things could happen. The van could get stolen, totalled or repossessed, my child could hate coming away with me from next year, keep coming until she’s forty, or run away to sea. One or both of our abilities could change radically in any direction. She could grow three inches and I could crush the car seat into tiny pieces under the Carthgao’s wheels. I could come into money, or lose my livelihood. Europe could close, camping could be restricted to sites only. Selling the on the Carthago to someone who is looking for a completely unmodified one is one of so many possibilities it’s almost insignificant. I also don’t think it’s going to be much of a tinker, really.

1) I want to put extra brackets or mechanisms in to stop the bed at different minimum and maximum height (which will not prevent the bed from being used at the original heights)

2) Put a curtained opening into the fabric tent and

3) Swap out the seats for ones that are slightly lower back rests.

I appreciate if I did cut the tent it wouldn’t be reversible, but I don’t think it would be intolerable to anyone, and I suppose the new stops might leave a few visible screw holes, but the seats could be swapped back without any ill effects, and I don’t beleive it would take a dealer more than an afternoon. They spend longer valeting them. It will almost certainly take me longer to convince the chap in the garage that it will suit me to make the changes than it will for him to do them!

 

[Wellington]

Just on the point of legs dangling because of seat heights, which we also find uncomfortable, lowering the seats seems a bit drastic.

Folding step stool is a very cheap solution. There are other simple things that can be used as a footrest. A bath step for example. Works for us.

As for the drop down bed issues there seem to be enough knowledgeable comments. I wouldn't want an electric one ever, because that's a hostage to Murphy's Law. If it can go wrong, it will.

Slight confusion. The seats I’m talking about lowering are the driver and passenger seats for lower back rests, so that the bed will lower without me having to fight with dropping the seats, not the lounge seating. Without the car seat in situ, I will be able to lounge with my feet up. I do travel with several folding step stools, for a variety of purposes.

 

[SpeedyDux]

With that sort of outlook, a troglodyte existence would probably be wise.

That's an unwarranted personal attack.

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[Compactliner]

when the bed is lowered, the rear (cabin) end is supported by a stout resting point at each side....these are the only (visible) supports for the bed as the other support is provided by the cantilever within the scissor frame...
the bed swings down and gently forward from its parked position to its dropped position, meaning any additional 'stops' need to be on that route....
im sitting in the passenger seat now (i am intimate with the van as we are living here for a while....in-laws have commandeered our house) looking at the path the bed describes as it is lowered and it will require some hefty bolts....but currently there is nowhere to bolt in to....as no requirement for a mid dropped bed.
building something strong enough to support the occupied bed weight looks 'interesting'....
it needs proper engineering or someone will be on their bum.....also, the angle of the mattress wont be level as it only acheives this at the lowest parked position.

 

[thebriars]

That's an unwarranted personal attack.

Really?

If you assume that an electric motorhome bed with 1 motor, and three switches is too much and you wouldn't want it because it can go wrong, and apply it to your lifestyle in general then what sort of lifestyle does that leave you with? Definitely not a car or any sort of motorhome with loads of switches, electric motors and relays in the cab. Not a house either, because that has loads of switches and some relays in it before you start to furnish it.

 

[thebriars]

Slight confusion. The seats I’m talking about lowering are the driver and passenger seats for lower back rests, so that the bed will lower without me having to fight with dropping the seats, not the lounge seating. Without the car seat in situ, I will be able to lounge with my feet up. I do travel with several folding step stools, for a variety of purposes.

I suspect altering the driver's and passenger seats would require the approval of your insurance company, as well as probable problems with an MOT when it is due.

 

[Wellington]

With that sort of outlook, a troglodyte existence would probably be wise.

everyone has a different level of backups that they are comfortable carrying.

That's an unwarranted personal attack.

it was mildly pointy. Lets speak kindly. We’re all different.

I suspect altering the driver's and passenger seats would require the approval of your insurance company, as well as probable problems with an MOT when it is due.

I shall enquire, if I get to that stage. I have a number of car-fettling friends who change seats all the time, and I’m reasonably sure they never tell anybody anything. Although that doesn’t necessarily recommend it.

 

[Minxy]

Booster seats are no longer legal and not very safe anyway, sadly.

This intrigued me ... booster seats are legal but depend on the size/age/weight of the child, I assume your kiddy is still to little etc to leave the car seat at home and use something else?

Child car seats: the law

The rules for child car seats and booster seats - height, weight, age, type of vehicle, car, minibus, licensed taxi

www.gov.uk

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[Minxy]

everyone has a different level of backups that they are comfortable carrying.


it was mildly pointy. Lets speak kindly. We’re all different.


I shall enquire, if I get to that stage. I have a number of car-fettling friends who change seats all the time, and I’m reasonably sure they never tell anybody anything. Although that doesn’t necessarily recommend it.

Changing a car seat might not be a problem as the seat-belt itself remains in place, but your chairs have the seat-belt built in so you may have to have it MOTed again to confirm it is still legal with different ones put in.

 

[Wellington]

when the bed is lowered, the rear (cabin) end is supported by a stout resting point at each side....these are the only (visible) supports for the bed as the other support is provided by the cantilever within the scissor frame...
the bed swings down and gently forward from its parked position to its dropped position, meaning any additional 'stops' need to be on that route....
im sitting in the passenger seat now (i am intimate with the van as we are living here for a while....in-laws have commandeered our house) looking at the path the bed describes as it is lowered and it will require some hefty bolts....but currently there is nowhere to bolt in to....as no requirement for a mid dropped bed.
building something strong enough to support the occupied bed weight looks 'interesting'....
it needs proper engineering or someone will be on their bum.....also, the angle of the mattress wont be level as it only acheives this at the lowest parked position.

I freely admit to being rubbish at engineering but it seems to me that something like a bottle jack would work, screwed into where the bed currently rests and perhaps the sides in case of knocks. (Please note, I am not suggesting a bottle jack, merely that that’s the sort of thing needed to cope with transferring the load while increasing the height, perhaps six or eight inches. I’m sure there are much better things available with names I don’t know.). Catches at the top are much easier and there are lots possibilities, as they won’t need to support so much weight. I did consider something like a pair of push fit rails (only better) ‘wedged‘ against the floor at each edge. It only need to be about four inches lower and a little stronger.

 

[Wellington]

This intrigued me ... booster seats are legal but depend on the size/age/weight of the child, I assume your kiddy is still to little etc to leave the car seat at home and use something else?

Child car seats: the law

The rules for child car seats and booster seats - height, weight, age, type of vehicle, car, minibus, licensed taxi

www.gov.uk

She‘d need to be 22kg. She’ll hit 135cm before she hits 22kg, I would think, she’s a skinnie Minnie! Children are much safer with side protection, so I wouldn’t use booster, anyway. I may loathe the bloody thing, but I accept it’s necessary (watch her grow the last few inches in the next month now. I swear they do it on purpose!)

I was in error that they are not legal. They are now only legal for group three. At the time, they made them illegal for smaller, kids ‘group 3’ didn’t need car seats at all, because they also increased the height children needed car seats until, so they moved up one to a catergory that hadn’t previously needed car seats (I don’t feel that makes a lot of sense )

 

[Minxy]

She‘d need to be 22kg. She’ll hit 135cm before she hits 22kg, I would think, she’s a skinnie Minnie! Children are much safer with side protection, so I wouldn’t use booster, anyway. I may loathe the bloody thing, but I accept it’s necessary (watch her grow the last few inches in the next month now. I swear they do it on purpose!)

Fatten her up more ... stuff her with lots and lots of jacket spuds!

 

[Wellington]

Changing a car seat might not be a problem as the seat-belt itself remains in place, but your chairs have the seat-belt built in so you may have to have it MOTed again to confirm it is still legal with different ones put in.

Now you tell me. It was done last Tuesday! noted, though.

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[Minxy]

I freely admit to being rubbish at engineering but it seems to me that something like a bottle jack would work, screwed into where the bed currently rests and perhaps the sides in case of knocks. (Please note, I am not suggesting a bottle jack, merely that that’s the sort of thing needed to cope with transferring the load while increasing the height, perhaps six or eight inches. I’m sure there are much better things available with names I don’t know.). Catches at the top are much easier and there are lots possibilities, as they won’t need to support so much weight. I did consider something like a pair of push fit rails (only better) ‘wedged‘ against the floor at each edge. It only need to be about four inches lower and a little stronger.

I'm getting confused again ...

You want the bed to rest when 'deployed' to be around 6 to 8 inches higher than it currently is so that it doesn't need the front seats lowering and the kiddy seat removing each time it's used - is that correct?

Or would you still need to change the cab seats anyway?

If you can get the raising/lowering of it sorted with some sort of electric function would you still want it left deployed (at the new height) when travelling, or would you stow it fully?

 

[Wellington]

Fatten her up more ... stuff her with lots and lots of jacket spuds!

she practically lives on them, with no noticeable bodyfat. She gets it from my mother!

 

[Minxy]

when the bed is lowered, the rear (cabin) end is supported by a stout resting point at each side....these are the only (visible) supports for the bed as the other support is provided by the cantilever within the scissor frame...
the bed swings down and gently forward from its parked position to its dropped position, meaning any additional 'stops' need to be on that route....
im sitting in the passenger seat now (i am intimate with the van as we are living here for a while....in-laws have commandeered our house) looking at the path the bed describes as it is lowered and it will require some hefty bolts....but currently there is nowhere to bolt in to....as no requirement for a mid dropped bed.
building something strong enough to support the occupied bed weight looks 'interesting'....
it needs proper engineering or someone will be on their bum.....also, the angle of the mattress wont be level as it only acheives this at the lowest parked position.

Seeing as you like to have a 'task' to do ... do you think it would be possible to lower the seat back backwards more so it reclines further rather than having to do it forwards to use the bed?

 

[SpeedyDux]

Really?

If you assume that an electric motorhome bed with 1 motor, and three switches is too much and you wouldn't want it because it can go wrong, and apply it to your lifestyle in general then what sort of lifestyle does that leave you with? Definitely not a car or any sort of motorhome with loads of switches, electric motors and relays in the cab. Not a house either, because that has loads of switches and some relays in it before you start to furnish it.

You know nothing about my lifestyle. Troglodyte indeed. Or some kind of technophobe - really? If you can't understand that is a personal attack on a fellow Funster maybe you should ask Jim to explain Rule 1. Most Funsters (myself included) are are quick to offer an apology if a comment causes offence. Instead you expanded and attempted to justify your previous attack. I haven't posted anything derogatory about you.

 

[thebriars]

You know nothing about my lifestyle. Troglodyte indeed. Or some kind of technophobe - really? If you can't understand that is a personal attack on a fellow Funster maybe you should ask Jim to explain Rule 1. Most Funsters (myself included) are are quick to offer an apology if a comment causes offence. Instead you expanded and attempted to justify your previous attack. I haven't posted anything derogatory about you.

It was not a personal attack. You did say "I wouldn't want an electric one ever, because that's a hostage to Murphy's Law. If it can go wrong, it will." I was simply pointing out that other than living in a cave, one cannot avoid that level of technology wherever one is these days. There is really very little in most electric beds to go wrong.

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[Minxy]

There is really very little in most electric beds to go wrong.

Actually that's not true ... there is something which is most definitely going to go wrong at some point ....

















... the 'human' sleeping in it!