Electric car ( again ) ? Anyone?

Tombola said:
I have plenty research just pointing out facts Dutch to keep you up to date. Seems you are waaay behind.


Don't quote rule1 if you don't practice it please . I didnt jump on that one with you.

Note you still haven't explained.but I don't expect so.
dont know why people get so offended when told facts .
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Like you I'm an EV fan. Unlike you, I think I know why people get so exorcised by EV's it's called Cognitive Dissonance" and it's a psychological phenomenon which explains why people find it hard to accept facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance. Just let them get on with propagating their distortions and they will end up driving EV's anyway. Unless of course you enjoy the cut and thrust of the argument, just don't expect to change their minds.
 
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Numerous reports it was a diesel that started it. Probably a Range Rover, where the only thing reliable about them is they WILL break down even if top of the range. :giggle: :imoutahere:
 
Onemanandhisdog said:
My point is, there are, according to Mr Google, around 6,000 multistory car parks in the UK and I do not remember this happening before, which is why I find it a little strange.
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Look up Echo Arena, Kings Dock, Liverpool 2017, almost identical fire situation

There have been others but smaller, Douglas Village Shopping Centre, Cork 2019, Willow Park Shopping Centre, Corby 2008, Monica Wills House, Bristol 2006

Guigsy said:
Many multi storey car parks have sprinklers because of this risk. And have done so for many years before the invention of BEVs.
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The majority of multi storey car parks are classed as open sided (as Luton and Kings Dock) and under current Building Regulations do not require sprinklers, this is partly due to the nature of the regulations which concern themselves solely with life safety rather than building integrity or economic fallout, been able to get people out of a building alive is the principle concern of fire regulations and believe it or not Kings Dock was classed a "success" as there was no loss of life.

However the estimated cost of the Kings Dock fire to cover insurance claims, the rebuilding of the car park and lost revenue is calculated as in excess of £50m, whilst the cost of providing sprinklers for Kings Dock car park would have been between £600k to £1m, however the developers who build multi storey car parks go to great lengths to have them classed as open sided to save the upfront cost of providing the sprinklers
 
Onemanandhisdog said:
My point is, there are, according to Mr Google, around 6,000 multistory car parks in the UK and I do not remember this happening before, which is why I find it a little strange.
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I commented on the possible reasons how these fire can spread so quickly in the Luton Airport thread

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Onemanandhisdog said:
It's not hard to pick out the EV owners or fans from the comments.
It is still odd how this spread, it's not like multistory car parks are uncommon, or various types of vehicles parking in them or the fact there might have been a bit of a breeze to fan the flames. I'm a little suspicious.
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Sooo. It is suspicious when a multistorey car park catches fire? Went looking for the first 3 listed on google excluding this one.

Liverpool Echo Arena MSCP on 31st December 2017 gutted the seven-storey building and up to 1,400 cars were destroyed.
Manchester Airport June 2019. Fortunately on the top floor or would have been bigger with more cars destroyed.
Kilmarnock 2008 The car that caught fire did so when the occupant tried to start it. She immediately raised the alarm and the firebrigade were there very quickly otherwise this could have been much worse.

There are I am sure many more, but I didn't set out to make a conclusive list, just a few examples.
 
CHendy said:
Like you I'm an EV fan. Unlike you, I think I know why people get so exorcised by EV's it's called Cognitive Dissonance" and it's a psychological phenomenon which explains why people find it hard to accept facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance. Just let them get on with propagating their distortions and they will end up driving EV's anyway. Unless of course you enjoy the cut and thrust of the argument, just don't expect to change their minds.
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Ahhh, so instead of me saying Im just stating facts to put you right, I should be saying "you wanna take look at your cogs mate" ,:LOL:

Ill remember that thanks CHendy
 
Bonsaiman said:
Look up Echo Arena, Kings Dock, Liverpool 2017, almost identical fire situation

There have been others but smaller, Douglas Village Shopping Centre, Cork 2019, Willow Park Shopping Centre, Corby 2008, Monica Wills House, Bristol 2006


The majority of multi storey car parks are classed as open sided (as Luton and Kings Dock) and under current Building Regulations do not require sprinklers, this is partly due to the nature of the regulations which concern themselves solely with life safety rather than building integrity or economic fallout, been able to get people out of a building alive is the principle concern of fire regulations and believe it or not Kings Dock was classed a "success" as there was no loss of life.

However the estimated cost of the Kings Dock fire to cover insurance claims, the rebuilding of the car park and lost revenue is calculated as in excess of £50m, whilst the cost of providing sprinklers for Kings Dock car park would have been between £600k to £1m, however the developers who build multi storey car parks go to great lengths to have them classed as open sided to save the upfront cost of providing the sprinklers
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Seems you were doing the work at the same time as I was. Nice job (y)
 
Just seen this on Twitter.

 
Onemanandhisdog said:
But, for the EV lovers, it does mention many of these may collapse under the added weight of EV's as they are mostly old and unloved.
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In the report you get that from they specifically mentioned those designed in the 70s. But do you think it is adding a couple 100KG of batteries or the facts cars are MUCH bigger and heavier today? To be accurate. The Electric mini weighs 145KG more than the petrol one.

But the modern mini weighs 1175KG vs 587KG for the classic one.

So what is the cause of the weight gain? Have cars got bigger and fatter like people, or is it the extra 100-200KG of battery causing it?


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Guigsy said:
That's not just a vehicle fire. That's an explosion. I don't understand how that has happened.
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That wasn't an explosion to my eyes. I saw it as the floor of the level above collapse and pour burning cars and fuel onto the floor the camera was on.
 
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Guigsy said:
That's not just a vehicle fire. That's an explosion. I don't understand how that has happened.
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Just went onto youtube to see if I could find a better quality video of that. And found this one. If you play it in slow mo. You can see the floor collapsing. Although the title gives the game away first :)

 
It would be interesting to know the timing of those two occurrences, the car apparently exploding and the floor collapsing and explosion, are they one and the same or one before the other?

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Bonsaiman said:
the car apparently exploding and the floor collapsing and explosion
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I cannot find any video of a car exploding or any other explosion for that matter. All I can find is the video of the floor collapsing which some are wrongly labelling as an explosion to get views/clicks apparently.
 
PS: People say a fuel tank explosion when it may just have been the tyres exploding.
 
Guigsy said:
That's not just a vehicle fire. That's an explosion. I don't understand how that has happened.
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Ok. So at this point the fire had been going for a while on the deck above. The video is of the point the deck collapsed on to the level below. That explains how the energy and combustion gases appear out of nowhere.
 
Guigsy said:
Ok. So at this point the fire had been going for a while on the deck above. The video is of the point the deck collapsed on to the level below. That explains how the energy and combustion gases appear out of nowhere.
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You know talking to yourself is the first sign of madness? Not only that it confuses the hell out of those around you :D :p

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That was no ordinary diesel car that was a damn good explosion.
 
neilydun said:
I often wondered what the result would be if the cooling fans failed, while a DPF doing a regen mid cycle would be.
I know on mine, if I park up midway on a regen, its sounds like concord is about to take off under the bonnet.
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I have it on good authority if you force a regen it needs to be parked on appropriate ground.

My mate is a spanner monkey and he set some grass on fire doing a static regen 😊
 
If you’ve lost your car in this fire.
Do you claim from the insurer of the cause of the fire?

I’m intrigued.
 
It has been known for some time that vehicle fires in multi storey car parks (MCSP's) are a serious concern.

This is especially the case when they are not independant from other building units, e.g. many hospitals have adjoining MCSP's.

There has been considerable worldwide research into the issues, especially causes and and the potential for rapid spreads. as can be seen from the link below.

These fires appear from the detailed and painstaking research over many years, which is ongoing, to have many potential start of fire causes. Looking at the cause of spread for many they correlate directly to the Liverpool Arena MCSP fire identified by many above. In this fire the Merseyside Fire Brigade concluded the rapid spread was due the construction of the MCSP itself, especially drainage ducts/pipes/channels, and that water was not the best method for dealing with the fire, dry powder was.

The research highlights the need to recognise all vehicle power unit types can be a cause for a fire starting, and that more research was needed for all but especially the new emerging fuel power unit types, including batteries and hydrogen.

I have not been through every research article line by line, but most appear to have been started by ICE vehicles so far. Will one ever be started by an EV in the future - quite probably, in fact it is extremely likely. The spread is likely to be exacerbated by the fuel in the adjoining vehicles spreading due to the car park costruction, as in the Liverpool Arena fire.

One good point in the research was LPG vehicles in the tests did not explode, their pressure relief valves operated allowing a controlled release of the LPG.

One thing is for certain, I wont be hanging about filming one of these fires if I am ever unlucky enough to witness it, I will be getting out rapidly while raising the alarm.

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