Drink driving

Similar situation with HGV drivers. I have parked for the night, had a little drinky poo and have left the keys in the ignition both in service areas and in laybys or wild camping to Mh ers and have countless other drivers and NEVER heard of anyone been charged with drunk in charge of a parked vehicle other than by "fourth hand" (may mate knows a man who .....)

Laws and rules are for the guidance of wise men ...... and the blind obedience of fools

most police do not want to look "arseholes" in court and I think you would have to be very unfortunate to find such a copper .... OR ...... a bloody irritating sod that has wound said copper up
 
I have talked with my brother on more than one occasion he recently retired after 30 years in the police
he is a pure :swear2: of a traffic cop.
has convicted over 250 drunk drivers in his time has been to 25 fatal's five thru drunk drivers has over 1500 serious successful road traffic conviction to his name and god knows how many minor one
has never done any one who has been in a motorhome or camper blinds closed.
he says there on holiday only a pure would destroy some ones holiday
on the grounds of in charge a motor home with no intent to drive
but driving the next day and unfit through drink or drugs is a different mater
or blatantly jumping in the drivers seat he would have not hesitated.
 
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a personal experience parked up in layby knock on the door copper bullock's I think very cold tonight sir
is that a hint for a cup of tea
Thank you very much sir come in my college is in the car tell him to come over
We sat a shot the shit for quite a long time and me with a beer in my hand think I opened two more
while they were there.
talked abut it and there opinion was they have bigger fish to fry and had caught a drunk driver earlier that after
none.
I have wild free camped for over 20 years and never had a problem any where
bill
 
As others have said, if you're parked up and it's obvious that you have no intention of driving then no problem with having a drink.

However, when wild camping or staying on aires only one of us would have a drink in case there is a need for us to drive off for some reason, e.g. some undesirables turn up and start causing problems (thinking back to JackieP's recent experience here). On a campsite, not so likely to encounter this issue so both happy to have a drink. To be fair though, it's not often that I have a drink so it's not really an issue.
 
hilldweller said:
I am horrified at the lazy ****** drivers of expensive cars using mobiles in their hands. Either the car is hand free equipped or they could easily afford a hands free, but no, they just use phone as normal.

Basically we are in a "ME" age and don't give a toss about anyone else.
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Many come already installed & only require the link to your mobile or sim.

Gellyneck said:
For good orders sake, the England \ Wales \ NI limit is too high. It needs to be brought in line with France.
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& even they struggle with there attempts to reduce drink driving.:(

hilldweller said:
Don't be stupid. A FUN rallies, after we celebrate Jim, we sit down and read The Bible and drink copious amounts of decaffeinated water. Then go home for a late night at 8 pm.
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Don't know about the bible reading but my missus goes to bed at 8 usually.(y)
 
gus-lopez said:
Many come already installed & only require the link to your mobile or sim.

Don't know about the bible reading but my missus goes to bed at 8 usually.(y)
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Double quoted on one message, oh yeh.

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hilldweller said:
Don't be stupid. A FUN rallies, after we celebrate Jim, we sit down and read The Bible and drink copious amounts of decaffeinated water. Then go home for a late night at 8 pm.
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Pull the other one!
 
Don't know if true but I am under the impression that you are deemwin charge of your vehicle the ignition keys are in position if not and are in different place (ie) shelf you can show you have no intention of driving
 
g8ysn said:
Don't know if true but I am under the impression that you are deemwin charge of your vehicle the ignition keys are in position if not and are in different place (ie) shelf you can show you have no intention of driving
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Many moons ago I was parked up in a lay-by along with another truck from our fleet, we had been in the Red Lion for a few and off to bed. We had a visit from plod and my oppo was threatened with prosecution because his keys were in the ignition and his tacho card was made out ready to go in the head in the morning. It took quite a lot of talking to sort it out. I had my keys in my pants pocket folded up on the passenger seat so wasn't given a hard time. Coppers with nothing better to do? Yes I think so.
 
So Is the issue that There IS no definitive answer? and (like much of English Law) it needs a prosecution to create case law, which then becomes definitive until someone with "loadsamoney" appeals it?. Where upon the legal "profession" (who are 1 step ahead of the "oldest" profession!) win again!

Pete
 
Italians don't lift a shade or answer the door .....Have experienced this myself when parked up next a few in Como town. Ironically I had asked the night before what if the police move you on..he said I tell them to piss off as i have had a drink and will move in the morning!

Next morning he totally ignored there protestations...much arm waving fron the cops who eventually left...I jsut said yeah yeah yeah we wll move when ready...seemed happy enough with at least getting a response so his dignity intact:D

We are so heavily policed in the UK.... scared of our own reflections.

if it went to court reasonableness needs to be established:rolleyes:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=215249
 
just remembered an incident years ago. I was designated driver and when I got home some arse had parked their car over our drive but close up behind my work van. being more than a little annoyed, I therefore blocked them in the spot (over my dropped curb) with my car behind so close they couldn't reverse.
I then went indoors and had a few drinks before retiring to bed

2:30am the doorbell goes and there is a police officer on my doorstep demanding I move to release the car. I simply pointed out that I was now over the limit and nobody else was insured to drive either vehicle. Nothing at all that could be done from that, as you cannot be ordered to break the law and no offence was committed other than the other car over a dropped curb blocking the driveway
Next day was interesting and hilarious speaking to the neighbour opposite who had turned his house into multiple student lets. some spotty little git had been visiting his girlfriend in the house and had no regard for where he parked. Being a Saturday, of course I had a leisurely morning and went out in my car at lunchtime. Never did get another problem with the students in that house. From what I heard, the landlord told them and subsequent tenants to respect the neighbours or find somewhere else to live

no follow up by the police either about refusing to move as I had been drinking. so the advice about not incriminating yourself is pretty sound. If you get a knock at the door telling you to move, even the police cannot tell you to break the law. trespass is a civil offence and is down to the landowner to enforce. theoretically on road parking you may get a ticket but that is way cheaper and less hassle to defend than a DUI offence
 
TheBig1 said:
i have mentioned it before on here, i am disabled because of a drink driver still over the limit the next day. my honest opinion is if somebody deliberately drives when over the limit and somebody gets injured, it should be an assault charge as well.
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I'd go further and say attempted murder .........
 
Would the answer be "But officer I don't WANT to drive".???????????.

I have a perfectly good bed, access to sanitary facilities, the means to breakfast, and make Coffee or tea without so doing. (And being A retired old fart no particular place to go in a hurry!!!)

Pete
 
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Gellyneck said:
Do you think "being so pis*** that I couldn't stand" would be deemed as "no likelihood"?:eek::whistle:;)
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Or indeed, so pi***d that in fact all you would reasonably be capable of is pointing at the car and giggling. Been there a few times! :D
 
PeteH said:
Would the answer be "But officer I don't WANT to drive".???????????.

I have a perfectly good bed, access to sanitary facilities, the means to breakfast, and make Coffee or tea without so doing. (And being A retired old fart no particular place to go in a hurry!!!)

Pete
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Yes, it probably would. The process involved is along these lines:

The circumstances would indicate who is in charge of the vehicle if there is more than one driver available. Usually, the person who last drove it and parked it would be in charge unless there is evidence to show differently, such as the drunk coming out to the car in the pub car park and trying but failing to drive it.

The person deemed to be in charge is in charge regardless of the location of the keys or intention to drive. (The wording in the Mary Monson article referenced above is wrong in this respect.) It is arguable that you could be in charge of a vehicle while you are indoors and the car is parked in the road outside.

You commit an offence if you are in charge of the vehicle while over the prescribed limit; the burden of proving this is on the prosecution. As referenced above, it is a defence to this charge to prove that there was no likelihood of you driving while over the limit; the burden of proof for this part is on you (the accused). Anything can contribute to the circumstances that would show this but it is helpful to show some positive decision-making or agreement such as asking the pub landlord if it's OK to stay in his car park overnight (as in Pub Stopovers, etc.). Putting the keys away, having the table set for a proper dinner, making the bed up, putting steadies down, etc. would all contribute to showing a deliberate decision not to drive while over the limit. Injuries to the person in charge and damage to the vehicle are specifically excluded from showing this, and so would being too p**sed to drive!

If the prosecution (initially, the officer doing the checking at the scene) disputes your evidence that there was no likelihood of your driving while over the limit, the burden of proof reverts to the prosecution to disprove your defence. If the circumstances and your 'defence' evidence are reasonable, in practice this is very difficult to do. (It would be easier if you were rat-a*sed and told the old bill you had to be at work at 8am the next day!)

All these burdens of proof apply in court during the hearing, but the same considerations will be used by the officer in deciding what course of action to take at the scene, and the better your argument advancing the defence (of not likely to drive), the more likely the officer will take no action.

Understanding all this, I have no qualms whatsoever about using pub stopovers after a good meal with wine or a couple of beers, and I wouldn't be concerned about car parks, etc., either. I hope this helps to reassure and perhaps dispel some myths.
 
If they woke me up they wouldn't need to be worried about drink driving but assault with a deadly weapon. :mad:
 
hilldweller said:
You will get the key easily enough next day, you can get it easily enough that same night, it's no defence at all and most vans have at least two sets of keys.
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and as the above post states, my point was relating to the fact that you clearly have no intention to drive if the keys are not on your person. and yes most vans do have 2 sets of keys, however 1 is usually a spare key which unless I am the only one that does it, is left at home.

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Putting down the steady's and levelling ramp would take away the intention to drive as the above post stated
but I have in twenty years of motorhoming never ben asked to move and never wored abut having a drink park sensibly and you wont have a problem
bill
 
I think. The Answer is "what is considered reasonable"?.

Reasonable. No more drunk than will eliminate before (Intended) driving.
Reasonable. Having all the appearance on not intending to move the vehicle in that time period.

I personally would be happy the defend that before a Judge.

Pete
 
ScotJimland said:
If you are in a car park that the public have access to, ie pub car park, then the same drink driving law applies..

A CL is a private site that the public have no right of access ..
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Not quite, during pub opening hours that is the case, when the pub is closed the pub car park becomes private land and therefore not subject to the same laws.
 
Definitely a bit of a grey area I think. Have often wondered about it. The campsite is the obvious answer. The wild camping probably a bit dodgy as if you were asked to move on and you told the gent in blue that you were smashed he would get you on a lesser charge of obstruction, parking in an area wot was'nt s'posed to be parked on... or terminally bad breath or something. As for the fluffy carpet slippers and kimono thing...well, all you need are the handcuffs to complete the scene!
 
Advice from the forum owner.. Jim
more on Wild Camping here Broken Link Removed

Alcohol and the Wild-camper

when wild camping you should consider that you might be asked at any time to “move on” by the landowner or even the police. for this reason, you should always be fit to drive when camping in a public place.

In the UK and some European countries there is a “drunk in Charge” law which means that you commit an offence just by being in charge of a vehicle when over the driving limit. If you were charged with this offence, then you would have to prove that your intentions were to sleep and not drive. One would hope that a Police Officer would use common-sense when seeing you in your pyjamas and realise you have no intention of driving. However common-sense seems to be less common these days, so the advice has to be, do not drink too much and wild camp.

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