Drink driving

I friend of a friend told me they were parked on a street outside a friends house after a wedding. Came back to the van after few pints and went to sleep. Apparently they were reported to the police for drink driving. About 3am they were woken by a knock on the door. When they opened the door they were confronted by a young police officer who was adamant that were in charge of a vehicle whilst over the limit and wanted to breathalyse him. But he had left the keys to the van in his friends house in his jacket and a senior police officer pointed out how to the young officer, how can he be in charge of the vehicle if he has no keys to drive it. So if you have not got the keys inside the vehicle you are not in charge of it. (apparently)

Its a second hand story but I think it sounds plausible.
 
I don't think Anyone approves of "Drink Driving". The OP was trying to establish IF there was NO INTENTION to drive. Then like being at home in the house (with access to a car on the Drive?). what would be the Legal as opposed to Moral Case?.

As for Pub Car Parks. I can see the issue Viz access to the highway. But we have been in the past been "invited" to stay over by Publicans before to-day? are they Aiding and abetting?. Not to mention that some C-L`s at Pubs will put you on a Hard-stand (carpark?) if the Site/Pitches are Wet/Muddy!.

My view is that it is far SAFER for all if a Driver who has had a drink At least sleeps it off? OK there are as we are aware, tragic cases involving "Next day" drunk drivers. But I doubt if we are talking the sort of 3 to 5 units socially over a Night. More likely 2 or 3 Bottles Of 14% or more!.

I do not know how valid it is, But I was told by a paramedic that an average FIT male will eliminate very roughly 1 unit per hour. If correct that would mean approx 2 hours per pint of beer (4%) So a six hour Kip would see off 3 pints. which for me at my age is a good night out!!. and of course "elimination" would start on completion of the first pint?.

Pete
 
mustaphapint said:
If there are 2 of you and you are both insured to drive how would they determine which one of you is actually in charge?
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registered keeper
 
As usual, every answer seems to ignore the fact that he used the word "aires".

So have we any pan-European bar-room lawyers in here ?

British law is bad law, you are guilty if the copper decides you are going to drive. I believe Euro law you do at least have to commit the act of driving but find out properly.

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I think this thread assumes that every Mr Plod is a numpty, if you are awoken by Mr Plod (be he French, German, English Spanish, whatever) at 3 am In the morning and you answer in your skiddies with an ear deafening alarm going off and two dogs trying to bite the coppers Bo££ox off , pissed out of your brains would they really deduce you were just going for a spin.:confused:
 
hilldweller said:
British law is bad law, you are guilty if the copper decides you are going to drive. I believe Euro law you do at least have to commit the act of driving but find out properly.
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Let me state at the outset.. I have zero tolerance for drink driving.. the limit should be zero.. and the penalty should be harsh for an offender.. a second offence should be automatic prison term.. and disqualification for life..

In saying that.. a copper doesn't judge or hand out fines.. .. the prosecution have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that you were going to drive.. as already mentioned.. no keys, you can't be in charge..

and why is it a bad law .. is prevention not always better than cure. ?

I prefer to believe that the police use common sense.. ( yes I know, an old fashioned idea) and don't go out looking for a pensioner having a beer in his van wearing his jim jams ...

In France the limit is lower and the penalties higher.. England is one of the few European countries with 0.08% .. most have 0.05% or zero..

France: 0.05% or 0.02% for bus drivers (€135 fine and 6 demerit points on the driver's license, which can be suspended for 3 years maximum),[11]
0.08% (aggravated, criminal offense, license suspension for 3 years, €4500 fine, and up to 2 years imprisonment)
 
Cat53 said:
if you imbibe in a glass or two of wine with your evening meal in your Motorhome are you in danger of falling foul of drink driving laws both home and abroad?
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I dont drink now, stopped a good while ago ....... However I had an idea about this.

Our van has a cab/ignition key and a fob and alarm with seperate key for habitation. if you locked the ignition key in a safe place in an external locker after locking the Cab, then retired to the rear, they would have a hard time proving you intended to drive
 
ScotJimland said:
and why is it a bad law ..
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Quite simple, you get convicted for something you might or might not do, drive with alcohol in your blood.

This is lazy bad law wide open to misuse.

As I said, and if I am correct, in Europe you will not get charged unless you actually move off.
 
Peter Ashcroft said:
Our van has a cab/ignition key and a fob and alarm with seperate key for habitation. if you locked the ignition key in a safe place in an external locker after locking the Cab, then retired to the rear, they would have a hard time proving you intended to drive
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You will get the key easily enough next day, you can get it easily enough that same night, it's no defence at all and most vans have at least two sets of keys.
 
ScotJimland said:
Let me state at the outset.. I have zero tolerance for drink driving.. the limit should be zero.. and the penalty should be harsh for an offender.. a second offence should be automatic prison term.. and disqualification for life..
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As much as I hate people who drink and drive. Even 1 pint it too much in my opinion. But ZERO TOLERANCE will not work. Some people produce s small amount of alcohol in their bodies naturally. Had a sherry trifle and you will be banned if caught driving. Use mouthwash and you could get a ban.

The UK limit is too high. It needs to be brought in line with France. But I do agree. Caught once and a heavy fine and a ban, Caught twice and you receive a long ban, heavy fine and a prison sentence.

Same goes for using a mobile phone whilst driving.
 
hilldweller said:
Quite simple, you get convicted for something you might or might not do, drive with alcohol in your blood.

This is lazy bad law wide open to misuse.
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I can see your point, however, there is a flip side. In fact, the Traffic Cops that aired last night (20th October for those viewing this post after today! :D ) there was a good example.

I am pretty sure that the law could be abused if there was a copper out there who really wanted to! However, consider this scenario, pissed person staggers to their car, opens the drivers door and inserts keys into the ignition. I am sure any policeman witnessing this series of events would apprehend the miscreant forthwith. Without the 'drunk in charge' legislation they would have to wait until he drove off. (by the way, that's not sexist, statistically, the vast majority of drink drivers are middle aged men). This is undesirable, because they could very well fail to stop and then be involved in a serious collision.

I am also pretty sure, that if a policeman found a family parked in their motorhome, perhaps in a pub car park, parents sitting down enjoying a glass of wine and snacks, watching TV. Young daughter asleep (and snoring heavily) in the overcab bed, cab blinds all closed and the front wheels chocked. That he would knock on the door, check that everything was OK and then leave the family to continue their evening (after conducting the obligatory checks for licence etc.)

You guessed it, the latter isn't hypothetical, it was actually quite nice to know that there were police patrolling and keeping an eye out!

[edited because I can't spell!! Too much wine!

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DanielFord said:
Without the 'drunk in charge' legislation they would have to wait until he drove off. This is undesirable, because they could very well fail to stop and then be involved in a serious collision.
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Agreed.
 
I stopped believing in ZERO Tolerance. Because whilst it may be desirable it is a Hypothetical Myth. Human Nature kicks in big time. Zero tolerance of misuse of "drugs". Has killed as many people as Drunk Drivers. (No excuse either way).



Classic example of "Zero" Tolerance at work. In the 1960`s US forces in Vietnam where actively discouraged by it, The Military diktat was that if "you" presented to an MO with a "social" disease as many young and frightened conscripts did. (get laid before you get killed?) Your Pay AND allowances where stopped for the "duration". This flagged up at home, Obviously, which may be OK for the unwed (although your mum would not be pleased!!) but those who had "married the girl next door before going off to war" for example and having gotten drunk in the back streets of Saigon, took a Local Girl, as the saying goes. Where forced to seek attention outside of the Military Medical system. The end result of which was treatment by back street quacks with drugs "Cut" so far as to be so ineffective as to be useless but sufficiently potent as to allow the Disease(s) to develop Immunity to a whole range of previously effective Drugs. Hence one of the Worst strains was labelled "Vietnam Rose". believed to be reference back to "Tokyo Rose" WW2



As young Merchant seamen we where told and warned that this was endemic in Hong Kong and across South East Asia, Sadly one of my engine cadets "copped" it and had to be flown back to the UK. Hospitalised, was VERY seriously ill AND left Impotent.

Zero Tolerance could not help him, Some tolerance might have!.



This is not an argument for or against the morality or not of sexual transgression. (or for that matter drinking and driving) But to illustrate that IMHO Zero Tolerance tends to make bad situations Worse Not Better.

Pete
 
Reevsie said:
Same goes for using a mobile phone whilst driving.
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That I could second. BUT again the "Human Element" always kicks in. My answer is that ONLY Hands free use be allowed, any thing else is barred. Not perfect but more likely to get compliance than an Outright ban?

Pete
 
What about typing in a post code in your sat nav whilst driving?
I think that if you are going to be driving the next day then you should not drink any amount that puts you over the legal limit , if you are of the ilk where you cannot stop after a couple then someone has to accept the responsibility of being designated driver .
Or even better ,try the increasingly available range of alcohol free drinks that you can pick up at most supermarkets ,I love Crabbe's alcohol free ginger beer or m and s white grape juce , the list of non intoxicated beverages is endless .
Be responsible don't drink and drive (y)
 
laird of Dunstan said:
I think that if you are going to be driving the next day then you should not drink any amount that puts you over the legal limit ,
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I do not understand the above.

Do you mean over the limit when you get in the car the next day? or over the limit at the end of your night out?

If the former = why?

If the latter = there are laws already to cover that, and no responsible person (that I know) would even consider it.

Not withstanding the penalties for doing so would put an end to their (mine anyway) driving for good.

We are all adults and some drink some do not, as long as we stay within the law as it stands then no problem.

IMO (y)

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PeteH said:
That I could second. BUT again the "Human Element" always kicks in. My answer is that ONLY Hands free use be allowed, any thing else is barred. Not perfect but more likely to get compliance than an Outright ban?

Pete
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I am horrified at the lazy ****** drivers of expensive cars using mobiles in their hands. Either the car is hand free equipped or they could easily afford a hands free, but no, they just use phone as normal.

Basically we are in a "ME" age and don't give a toss about anyone else.
 
bartiny said:
Do you mean over the limit when you get in the car the next day? or over the limit at the end of your night out?

If the former = why?
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Perhaps because the later could result in the former.. ?

There are people who bevy into the wee hours then set off home next morning.. many will still be over the legal limit.. and even if not, may not be fully rested.. and 100% alert..

an example.. commercial airline pilots must not drink 24 hrs before flying.
 
To be clear, neither Steve nor I drink and drive and neither do we condone it. I think it's wise to be particularly aware in the Motorhome. It could be quite tempting to think....'I'm home' put your feet up and have a glass or two of wine whilst watching the sunset and falling foul of the law in the process.

My BIL was convicted of drink driving many years ago. He drove to a party. Drank. Took a taxi home because he knew he wasn't fit to drive. The following evening he went and picked his car up and was breathalysed and found to be over the limit. It's that easy to get it wrong. We learned from his lesson and don't take the risk....ever!

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Cat53 said:
To be clear, neither Steve nor I drink and drive and neither do we condone it. I think it's wise to be particularly aware in the Motorhome. It could be quite tempting to think....'I'm home' put your feet up and have a glass or two of wine whilst watching the sunset and falling foul of the law in the process.

My BIL was convicted of drink driving many years ago. He drove to a party. Drank. Took a taxi home because he knew he wasn't fit to drive. The following evening he went and picked his car up and was breathalysed and found to be over the limit. It's that easy to get it wrong. We learned from his lesson and don't take the risk....ever!
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Good for you (y)

So... why did you ask the question in the first place?

I will stay within the law, thanks for your concern ;)

(y)
 
bartiny said:
Good for you (y)

So... why did you ask the question in the first place?

I will stay within the law, thanks for your concern ;)

(y)
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Out of curiosity as much as anything. I have seen photos posted up with glasses of wine in front of meals etc, heard of the partying at rallies etc and just wondered what people's thoughts were. My interest was specifically on the 'in charge of vehicle' standpoint.
 
Reevsie said:
The UK limit is too high. It needs to be brought in line with France.
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For good orders sake, the England \ Wales \ NI limit is too high. It needs to be brought in line with France.
 

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