Doc on tour, France, Spain, Morroco.

[Northernraider]

Exactly it’s your home, if your house roof leaks you get a roofing company to fix it, not some bloke who’s felted his shed…
It should only take a day to do it and you could book in somewhere but then that’s more money and probably difficult because of the dogs…

If you take it to a main dealer to change the master cylinder and it doesn’t improve then you have some recourse, they would have done many before, you’ve changed almost everything else on the braking system so it can only be the master cylinder…

Sometimes your just bloody stubborn and soldier on hoping something improves if it saves you a few bob but if you let it go on it will surely cost more in the long run and hopefully doesn’t hurt anyone else….

I haven't changed anything on the braking system garry other than the pads , and the fluid

Which is exactly my point , this van has numerous boxes , valves and things I've never seen before connected to the braking system. At the moment it could be any one of those things hence

I'd rather keep the cost of a master cylinder replacement down at present because there is no guarantee its the cause .

I'm the one driving the van and the only one that can feel and see what it's doing .

It's not the first vehicle I've had brake faults with.

Yes there are some elements I haven't tackled or repaired before which is why I'm asking people but there are various replies and ideas from people some that are knowledgeable and some who may have the best intentions but are not in the least bit mechanically minded.


From the master cylinder I have 2 flexi hoses that go In to another large box mounted on chassis with electric connections and hydraulic pipework coming out of it. I've not seen one before. Then at the rear there are 2 boxes one either side connected to brakes and a valve on rear axle. Then there's a cylinder connected to the load sensing valve .

The brakes aren't simple on this .

I'm happy to have the master cylinder replaced by a reputable garage if it costs around £200. ....if its gonna cost more than that I want to know for sure its the definite problem.

I also don't want to be stuck without the van


I'm aware of the brake efficiency and I drive constantly with that in mind. I've driven 30 miles today and I've tested the van doing emergency stop etc and it stops ... on general roads its fine . I have only had an issue on very steep windy hills where I've the brake pedal pressed for a long period of time ...the brakes then get hot and are crap ..

When I had issue in the UK the pedal went to the floor . That did not happen the other day I had a firm pedal the brakes were just not stopping the van .



On the previous van I experienced brake fade in Greece on the mountains 3/4 times ... then the brakes returned when cold and worked fine . I never did get that fluid changed and it passed the mot brake test etc .



I will try iveco in Agadir and see what they say .

If I could have got a master cylinder before so I had the correct one here then I'd have tried a garage for fitting it and bleeding brakes.

I have enough issue just getting fuel in this bloody country never mind anything else.

 

[JockandRita]

So this is my question. If there's an internal leak where is the fluid going .. and why is the level not dropping.

The fluid isn't going anywhere, it's just not being pressurised because it's likely seeping past the internal seals.

I want to change the master cylinder just in case

Great, get on to it ASAP and seek the assistance of a fellow Brit who knows their down from their up, and their hold it, when it comes to bleeding the system.
Garry is as strong as an ox, so if he's about, get a bloody great lump of 4 x 2 for him to operate the pedal for you.

I don't want a tiny garage in the middle of a small village to attempt the job incase

So do the job yourself with assistance, once in receipt of the new Master cylinder.

A) they have no knowledge
B) they can't get the part for days or weeks by which point I'm stranded in a busy village with 4 dogs.
At the mercy of every seller ,child and stray who sees the big tourist as a target.

That really sounds negative Tam but you have already proved that you have the skills, the tools, and know that the parts could be on their way pronto, if not sourced locally from Iveco, so I genuinely don't get your feeling of negativity. It's not a major task with assistance.
What have you got to lose once the parts arrive? It's less than an hours work for the likes of yourself. You just need a pedal pusher on hand.

Good luck with it.

Jock.

 

[Northernraider]

Wouldn't it make sense to get it done when you get the paint job?

From what I read the seals are leaking so the fluid is just going back behind the plunger or whatever it's called so not pressurising as it should but not leaking out the system.

That was my thinking if I could get the part

Alright big yin
I haven't read through all the earlier posts but I'll be in Spain tomorrow morning and probably spend a week or so fecking about towards Carlos so am I picking up this master cylinder thing or what am I doing? Lol

This is the dilemma I'm having . Richard gus-lopez can get the part by Monday but he's in lorca ...you'll be passing then but when? And then I'm quite far down morroco so not sure when you'd get here .

Or I can go to iveco in agadir and see if they have one in stock.

If they do then great , if not it could take ages to arrive.

Ideally I'd rather have had the part changed while I'm in tafroute anyway as I makes sense not to spend extra days stuck at a garage


But I dinnae Ken what's best and my head is nipping

 

[Northernraider]

You could contact Iveco, see if they have one first?

Considering the other jobs you've taken on changing a master cylinder is fairly straightforward, you only need someone to help you bleed it.

I cannae speak French though Jon I thought it best to go in then I could use translator.

And yes if I had help I could change and bleed it

 

[Helen Ariel]

Tam, I’m happy to help you bleed the brakes as Helen and I are staying in Terre d’Ocean & Taghazoute area for the next few nights at least.

Paul

ps, as mentioned on the phone there is a Belgian plated Flair exactly like yours on site tonight so we could mount an SAS Rogue Heroes style midnight raid for parts… Just saying!

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[Northernraider]

The fluid isn't going anywhere, it's just not being pressurised because it's likely seeping past the internal seals.


Great, get on to it ASAP and seek the assistance of a fellow Brit who knows their down from their up, and their hold it, when it comes to bleeding the system.
Garry is as strong as an ox, so if he's about, get a bloody great lump of 4 x 2 for him to operate the pedal for you.


So do the job yourself with assistance, once in receipt of the new Master cylinder.


That really sounds negative Tam but you have already proved that you have the skills, the tools, and know that the parts could be on their way pronto, if not sourced locally from Iveco, so I genuinely don't get your feeling of negativity. It's not a major task with assistance.
What have you got to lose once the parts arrive? It's less than an hours work for the likes of yourself. You just need a pedal pusher on hand.

Good luck with it.

Jock.

OK that makes sense kind of ... I admit I am not clued up with master cylinder operation hence being willing to try changing it in the hope it works.


Garry unfortunately is many days behind me as he's on a different timescale to me ..he's here for 3 months I'm here for 6-8 weeks at most.

If I had the master cylinder I'd have preferred to do it In taffroute as all wheels will be off the van there and I'll be there probably 2 weeks .

The decision is do I try to buy one In agadir but I won't be there for at least 2 days , or do I get gus-lopez to source the one in Spain ( hopefully right one ) and get CaptainPaul to collect but not sure when I'll see him

That's the dilemma, I don't want to buy 2 master cylinders but timing is important



From having work done in morroco before I know they work to their own timescale and you can't hurry them lol.

 

[Northernraider]

Tam, I’m happy to help you bleed the brakes as Helen and I are staying in Terre d’Ocean & Taghazoute area for the next few nights at least.

Paul

ps, as mentioned on the phone there is a Belgian plated Flair exactly like yours on site tonight so we could mount an SAS Rogue Heroes style midnight raid for parts… Just saying!

I need the part first unfortunately. And it's now Friday I've just noticed so I won't get one now till at least Monday anyway .

 

[Northernraider]

Right I have to go drive now to try and find a park up for tonight .

That gives you all time to confuse the life out of me again with what you'd do .


L8ers

 

[Lenny HB]

Why not email the Iveco dealer if they don't speak English they can translate it.

 

[Fdhadi]

Is it fitted with ABS Tam.
If so, have a quick visual check on the ABS ring on the hub. Sometimes these become detached and can cause the pedal to floor.

Maybe worth a look.

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[Barriesimpson]

So this is my question. If there's an internal leak where is the fluid going .. and why is the level not dropping.

The fluid remains in the system. A master cylinder works by pressurising the fluid on one side of the piston inside, as you push the brake pedal. That cylinder, on moving forward due to the pressure applied, pressurises the fluid in the pipes and sends that pressurised fluid to the slave cylinders (in a drum system) or the callipers (in a disk system) and thereby applying the brakes. It is a little more complicated than that (before the armchair engineers start again) but is probably enough for you and others to understand how brakes work. The seals in the master cylinder are actually O-rings around the piston that prevent the pressurised fluid from passing by the piston and losing that pressure. This is exactly what is happening on your system - the O-rings are allowing a small amount of that pressure to seep backwards to the reservoir instead of going down to the slaves or callipers, and only manifesting itself on downhill runs, for now, because you are applying more pressure. Once those O-rings fail completely (which sooner or later they will), you will have no braking whatsoever and I would therefor suggest the repair is URGENT.

I want to change the master cylinder just in case

Good idea, see above.

But


I don't want a tiny garage in the middle of a small village to attempt the job incase
A) they have no knowledge

It is actually a simple job, but do make sure the brakes are properly bled once the cylinder is fitted. This is standard procedure on any vehicle with hydraulic brakes.

B) they can't get the part for days or weeks by which point I'm stranded in a busy village with 4 dogs.

I imagine that might be a problem where you are.

At the mercy of every seller ,child and stray who sees the big tourist as a target.

Better to find a proper garage in a city.

 

[cyberyacht]

It's a radical solution but have you ever thought about buying a decent van instead of a succession of 'old bangers'?

 

[Barriesimpson]

It's a radical solution but have you ever thought about buying a decent van instead of a succession of 'old bangers'?

Now there's a thought...

 

[Mikey RV]

Iveco dealer, drive in tell them the problem. Your choice then to to say yes or no to them doing the job or buying the part and doing it yourself. Sorted.

 

[sonny]

If the brakes get hot and are not working must be fade softer pads could be tha answer
Hope you get it sorted soon

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[Northernraider]

The fluid remains in the system. A master cylinder works by pressurising the fluid on one side of the piston inside, as you push the brake pedal. That cylinder, on moving forward due to the pressure applied, pressurises the fluid in the pipes and sends that pressurised fluid to the slave cylinders (in a drum system) or the callipers (in a disk system) and thereby applying the brakes. It is a little more complicated than that (before the armchair engineers start again) but is probably enough for you and others to understand how brakes work. The seals in the master cylinder are actually O-rings around the piston that prevent the pressurised fluid from passing by the piston and losing that pressure. This is exactly what is happening on your system - the O-rings are allowing a small amount of that pressure to seep backwards to the reservoir instead of going down to the slaves or callipers, and only manifesting itself on downhill runs, for now, because you are applying more pressure. Once those O-rings fail completely (which sooner or later they will), you will have no braking whatsoever and I would therefor suggest the repair is URGENT.

Good idea, see above.

It is actually a simple job, but do make sure the brakes are properly bled once the cylinder is fitted. This is standard procedure on any vehicle with hydraulic brakes.

I imagine that might be a problem where you are.

Better to find a proper garage in a city.

OK that I understand .

I think my best option is to go to iveco in Agadir see if they have one or how long to get one and of course the price. And take it from there.

 

[Northernraider]

It's a radical solution but have you ever thought about buying a decent van instead of a succession of 'old bangers'?

Why didn't I think of it

 

[Barriesimpson]

OK that I understand .

I think my best option is to go to iveco in Agadir see if they have one or how long to get one and of course the price. And take it from there.

You know it makes sense my friend. Good luck.

 

[Northernraider]

Iveco dealer, drive in tell them the problem. Your choice then to to say yes or no to them doing the job or buying the part and doing it yourself. Sorted.

Downside is the part could be 3 or 4 times the price too.

Which I hate

 

[Dutch 68]

It's a radical solution but have you ever thought about buying a decent van instead of a succession of 'old bangers'?

Or do a full resto, and make it as it left the factory

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[Dutch 68]

Iveco dealer, drive in tell them the problem. Your choice then to to say yes or no to them doing the job or buying the part and doing it yourself. Sorted.

Drop off , go for a nice meal, collect 3 hours later

 

[JockandRita]

Drop off , go for a nice meal, collect 3 hours later

Northernraider. And get them to do a diagnostic check, for the turbo boost warning light which keeps appearing.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Mikey RV]

Downside is the part could be 3 or 4 times the price too.

Which

Downside is the part could be 3 or 4 times the price too.

Which I hate

Life is priceless Tam.

 

[PaulW2]

Downside is the part could be 3 or 4 times the price too.

Which I hate

And no guarantee of success.

In about 2011/12 I spent a great deal of money, and quite a lot of time, at a large Iveco dealership near London which totally failed to solve the problem. New tyres, speed limiters set, gearbox semi-auto gubbins dismantled, the works. Lots of bullshit theories.

Then I took it to another smaller crowd who identified the turbo problem in 30 minutes and thereafter fixed it. A few grand, but fixed.

 

[Al n Val]

If it’s Bosch part then the Iveco dealer will fit a Bosch part i’d have thought, i’m sort of agreeing with Tam, why pay £200 when he can get one for £50.

Bearing in mind all the wheels will be off in a couple of weeks that 3/4 of the job done.

It’s a difficult one Tam and only you can decide which is the best route for you.

I’m inclined also to think if a Moroccan guy/dealer does it and the same problem raises its head in a couple of months time, then I know for fact you’ll not cross over back to Morocco and tell them to sort it.

tough call mate if you ask me so very good luck

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[CaptainPaul]

Deleted....

 

[CaptainPaul]

So many conflicting options I'm sure your heads melted...
I'm going back up to delete mine lol

 

[Northernraider]

Drop off , go for a nice meal, collect 3 hours later

Not with 4 dogs

 

[Northernraider]

Life is priceless Tam.

It can also be hard if you're skint lol . Which I would be if I listened to all you folk with pensions or wages.

Still no job offers

 

[PaulW2]

It may be a relatively simple problem statement for diagnosis I guess. As I understood it:

• Braking is normally ok.
• When I go down a long hill my brakes fade.
• When this happens, in recent months, my brake pedal stayed in the same position.

Or, alternatively,

- When this happens my brake pedal sinks to the floor.

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