Doc on tour, France, Spain, Morroco.

[gus-lopez]

but it's the first time I've encountered a girl doing it ...and so often.

Don't mix with the russian/ukrainian women then

Have you checked the servo is holding vacuum, you can get service kits for some models.

The pedal would be solid if the servo wasn't holding vacuum.

 

[Northernraider]

Did you ever get the onboard gennie up & running?

No its still on the list.

It's not drawing fuel from the tank which is one issue but not sure if that's only issue.

 

[Northernraider]

If vehicle hasn't had brake fluid changed for long period it can cause corrosion problems in ABS pump this doesn't always show up with warning light , one such problem is sudden loss of pedal by going right to floor . I have come across this a few times , it is usually last thing you want to contemplate as they are not cheap.

By elimination you've now tested almost everything haven't you?

My previous motorhome was on a 2010 50c18 Iveco chassis. It remained quite underbraked for as long as I had it - just how it was.

Don't mix with the russian/ukrainian women then

The pedal would be solid if the servo wasn't holding vacuum.

Hence my confusion and hesitation lol. Going by the tests I find online fir master cylinder and servo etc they seem to work as they should. There's no visible leaks externally, the fluid level has not changed. The brakes under normal use are not fantastic ...not like a car but then they also work sufficiently. It's only on steep or long hills that a problem becomes apparent. The first time it was definite brake fade the pedal went to the floor and I had to pump it to get a pedal . My last van did that several times in Greece and never did get a fluid change but brakes were fine and passed mot etc before I sold it.

On this van the brakes work OK until they don't. Because I didn't know the history I had the fluid changed and bled because most of the people on here suggested it. The brakes were fine after until the next steep long hill I came across. They work fine in between but I can't believe everyone else with an iveco has such weak brakes. It is on its maximum weight which probably doesn't help . But I can't have fluid changes everytime I go down a hill . If the seals in the master cylinder are leaking then where is the fluid going and why doesn't it show a reduction in fluid.

The discs and pads are fine, the pads were new the discs not but they are now clean and shiny . The load sensing valve looks OK...is this affected vy the rear air suspension?

I can't tell from driving it if all wheels are braking I'd have to try jacking up each wheel and try to turn it with brakes on to confirm that.


So like I said it's difficult because look how many different suggestions there are just on here each time I mention it.

 

[PaulW2]

It's only on steep or long hills that a problem becomes apparent. The first time it was definite brake fade the pedal went to the floor and I had to pump it to get a pedal . My last van did that several times in Greece and never did get a fluid change but brakes were fine and passed mot etc before I sold it.

On this van the brakes work OK until they don't. The brakes were fine after until the next steep long hill I came across. They work fine in between

So if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's possibly ... brake fade isn't it?

Do you have a manual gearbox so you can spare your brakes by doing judicious engine braking?

 

[Northernraider]

So if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's possibly ... brake fade isn't it?

Do you have a manual gearbox so you can spare your brakes by doing judicious engine braking?

It's a manual box yes but engine braking is pathetic on this . I was in 2nd gear coming down that hill still gaining speed and engine revving it's arse off .

And I had a brake pedal. ..it wasn't on the floor but the van was not stopping either. Can't use handbrake as I'd just cause issues with the shoes

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[Abacist]

Genuine question but why do people in campers need to brush their teeth outside and spit toothpaste everywhere? It seems to be very common and I can't understand why they need an audience.

There's 3 French vans here and all 6 occupants are brushing there teeth outside ?

And one of the girls who's very pretty just did that thing where you put a finger on one nostril and blow the contents of the other on the ground ...

French - say no more!

 

[jongood]

Yes I saw that .... prices might be scary though

I wouldn't mind so much if I knew it was definitely the problem. But the usual way of diagnosing a master cylinder fault doesn't seem to work.

At the moment my engine hasn't been started up since yesterday when I parked after the brakes didn't work.

I pressed brakes with engine off ...pedal went to floor . Let it up and did the same second time. Third time it was firm and has stayed firm since . Put pressure on and keep it there and it doesn't move.

Now usually a failed internal seal in a master cylinder means it will always slowly go to the floor . But this doesn't.

It just behaves like there's air in the system.

But when driving like yesterday coming down that hill. I had a firm pedal it just wasn't stopping the van like it should. I was in 2nd gear and foot hard on brake and still moving.

The last time it did it was different...that time I had no pedal it just went to the floor.

I've just been under the van checking and I've definitely no leaks . The discs are also nice and clean now as I knew they would after doing a bit miles . Pads were renewed , calipers were freed , there's no brake binding I'm aware of , fluid was replaced so it's a process of elimination. I'm happy to replace the master cylinder if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg .... as it may or may not fix it and if it doesn't ill have to change other parts till I find the problem.

Hindsight is great but I wish I'd bought one in the UK.

Might be a pain getting one here. Or at least it might be very expensive

Its probably better value than dieing from brake failure on the pass to tafraoute
My water pump (engine) fan belt and coolant (all genuine) incl labour was about 2000Dh plus numerous chocolate bars and an old shirt( its a cultural thing)

I had similar issue with the slave cylinder on this and it turned out to be the return spring not pushing the piston all the way back so not getting a full stroke.

We're in Spain now, coming over sometime next week, happy enough to get one and bring it over if you can find one but then won't be down around Agadir for another 2 weeksish after. Last time we bought something over for a funster we never caught up with them, ended up leaving it in Marrakech for them to collect on way back.

 

[PaulW2]

It's a manual box yes but engine braking is pathetic on this . I was in 2nd gear coming down that hill still gaining speed and engine revving it's arse off .

And I had a brake pedal. ..it wasn't on the floor but the van was not stopping either. Can't use handbrake as I'd just cause issues with the shoes

It sounds like brake fade, doesn't it? Normally works ok, but not on long descents etc.

Maybe you have what is called 'friction fade' (overheating discs and pads) rather than 'fluid fade'? The pedal can still feel hard even though braking power is reduced.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Don't mix with the russian/ukrainian women then

They're not women though, are they.

 

[PaulW2]

They're not women though, are they.

Well, they leave the West behind

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[Barriesimpson]

If the seals in the master cylinder are leaking then where is the fluid going and why doesn't it show a reduction in fluid.

You have an internal leak in the master cylinder. The fluid is passing by the internal piston seals and not holding the braking pressure. There is no loss of fluid because it is not leaking out. You have two choices, get the master cylinder refurbished (you can get a seal kit) or replace it (probably the best choice due to the age of the vehicle.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Well, they leave the West behind

Only in looks.

 

[CaptainPaul]

There's no doubt the tagines & ferrari soup etc out in Morocco is great but its hard to beat good old Blighty for a fish supper!
Rule Britania that's what I say!

 

[Barriesimpson]

It sounds like brake fade, doesn't it? Normally works ok, but not on long descents etc.

Maybe you have what is called 'friction fade' (overheating discs and pads) rather than 'fluid fade'? The pedal can still feel hard even though braking power is reduced.

Brake fade is caused by extensive use of the brakes and not allowing them to cool sufficiently. Basically it boils the brake fluid thereby diminishing its hydraulic efficiency and rendering it almost useless. Once this has happened, the brake fluid will need changing as it will never get back to its original state.

If while doing/causing this, you have also 'overcooked' the pads and disks, the disks will turn a dark blue and will also require replacement.

 

[bigtwin]

If the seals in the master cylinder are leaking then where is the fluid going and why doesn't it show a reduction in fluid.

Because, as Barrie says below, the leaky seal is allowing pressure from the closed high pressure side to flow back into the low pressure (reservoir) side of the circuit.

You have an internal leak in the master cylinder. The fluid is passing by the internal piston seals and not holding the braking pressure. There is no loss of fluid because it is not leaking out.

Ian

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[PaulW2]

Brake fade is caused by extensive use of the brakes and not allowing them to cool sufficiently. Basically it boils the brake fluid thereby diminishing its hydraulic efficiency and rendering it almost useless. Once this has happened, the brake fluid will need changing as it will never get back to its original state.

If doing this you have also 'overcooked' the pads and disks, the disks will turn a dark blue and will also require replacement.

Well, yes. But overheating of the discs and pads can occur without boiling the brake fluid. Hence the term 'friction fade', where the symptoms can be exactly as described - fading performance but with a pedal that still feels firm. Boiling the brake fluid is known as 'fluid fade' and results in the pedal being pushed lower without effective braking.

From crash forensics:

Brake Failure Analysis

And:

What is brake fade? | driveJohnson's

Sometimes you feel your brakes aren't as effective as usual - you could be feeling the effects of brake fade. Find out what brake fade is.

www.drivejohnsons.co.uk

 

[Barriesimpson]

Well, yes. But overheating of the discs and pads can occur without boiling the brake fluid. Hence the term 'friction fade', where the symptoms can be exactly as described - fading performance but with a pedal that still feels firm. Boiling the brake fluid is known as 'fluid fade' and results in the pedal being pushed lower without effective braking.

From crash forensics:

Brake Failure Analysis

And:

What is brake fade? | driveJohnson's

Sometimes you feel your brakes aren't as effective as usual - you could be feeling the effects of brake fade. Find out what brake fade is.

www.drivejohnsons.co.uk

Stop splitting hairs.

 

[PaulW2]

Stop splitting hairs.

Two different forms of brake fading. With two clear and different descriptions.

One fits the description of what has happened. The other doesn't.

How is that splitting hairs?

 

[Barriesimpson]

Two different forms of brake fading. With two clear and different descriptions.

One fits the description of what has happened. The other doesn't.

How is that splitting hairs?

You posted armchair mechanics views on the exact same thing. I have already explained, in layman's terms (for better understanding of the situation) what is happening so why complicate it?

 

[monzer]

Round 3 ding-a-ling-a-ling

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[PaulW2]

You posted armchair mechanics views on the exact same thing. I have already explained, in layman's terms (for better understanding of the situation) what is happening so why complicate it?

Nonsense.

I said it may be 'friction fade'. Which causes fade while the pedal still feels firm. Which is what he described.

You said the brake fluid boiled, and accused me of splitting hairs.

But if the brake fluid boils, this is known as 'fluid fade'. And your brake pedal doesn't feel firm.

 

[JockandRita]

If the seals in the master cylinder are leaking then where is the fluid going and why doesn't it show a reduction in fluid.

There's your answer below.

You have an internal leak in the master cylinder. The fluid is passing by the internal piston seals and not holding the braking pressure. There is no loss of fluid because it is not leaking out. You have two choices, get the master cylinder refurbished (you can get a seal kit) or replace it (probably the best choice due to the age of the vehicle.

This.

Just get it sorted Tam, and stop faffing about with the safety of yourself, the dogs, and other road users.

Jock.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Nonsense.

I said it may be 'friction fade'. Which causes fade while the pedal still feels firm. Which is what he described.

You said the brake fluid boiled, and accused me of splitting hairs.

But if the brake fluid boils, this is known as 'fluid fade'. And your brake pedal doesn't feel firm.

I refuse to argue on this as it doesn't help Tam's problem. If we were closer, we could meet up in a pub somewhere and discuss the ins and outs all night, and have a great laugh too. Unfortunately, the distance impedes this possibility, so let's just agree to disagree and hope Tam get's it sorted out soon. All the best Paul.

 

[Just smiffy]

Yes I know I need it fixed garry but the mechanic I took it to last time didn't have a clue , and not many places can deal with the size. I can't afford to take it to a main garage and leave it with them while they investigate and guess at the problem. And unfortunately that's what they want you to do. There's very few garages big enough to look at the van thst can do so there and then . I have 4 dogs and it's my home.

I've still a list of Jobs to sort on the van, I had countless problems with the brakes on the last van too.

Exactly it’s your home, if your house roof leaks you get a roofing company to fix it, not some bloke who’s felted his shed…
It should only take a day to do it and you could book in somewhere but then that’s more money and probably difficult because of the dogs…

If you take it to a main dealer to change the master cylinder and it doesn’t improve then you have some recourse, they would have done many before, you’ve changed almost everything else on the braking system so it can only be the master cylinder…

Sometimes your just bloody stubborn and soldier on hoping something improves if it saves you a few bob but if you let it go on it will surely cost more in the long run and hopefully doesn’t hurt anyone else….

 

[Jays2]

Re cleaning your teeth outside.
Some campers use a corrugated flex hose to connect the drop down sink in the bathroom.
When you clean your teeth the foam in your mouth is a semi fluid. Contains the detritus and tooth paste.
Split it into the sink and swill away the contents.
However this sticks to the wall of the corrugated flexible pipe and over the years ( depending on use) furs up the pipe making it difficult to drain.

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[sonny]

It isn't bad . I'm just curious why everyone seems to do it. Most of these vans will have a sink inside.


It was the snot blowing I thought was minging

I agree that’s gross for a girl

 

[pelican]

"just did that thing where you put a finger on one nostril and blow the contents of the other on the ground"

Just tried that. It works!

Now you can emigrate

 

[G-RMPS]

Now you can emigrate

If France would accept me, I would!

 

[pelican]

French - say no more!

You missed out peasants

 

[Freo]

There's no doubt the tagines & ferrari soup etc out in Morocco is great but its hard to beat good old Blighty for a fish supper!
Rule Britania that's what I say!
View attachment 998527

The following lyrics immediately sprung to mind when I saw this.
“And if you think I'll eat your fish 'n' chips
I tell ya, you're mistaken.”
Have to say, they do look guid, though.

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