Do you drive with Full Water Tanks?

[PeteH]

The Herald wasn't making a turn and didn't begin to take on water until the RPM's were increased. All of the Vikings had a nose down attitude once the speed picked up. The water on the car deck didn't have to slosh around anywhere, a depth of 8 inches and the free surface effect changing her centre of buoyancy which effected her metacentre was enough to capsize her.

I cannot find my copy, but, I am pretty sure that the DOT official report, does state that the vessel had cleared the mole and was commencing a turn to Port, which of course she would have to do for Dover. The rest was just a simplistic version of what happened. Most people do not understand "free Surface effect" Nor how much it can effect stability. When I have been asked, I have just said to try walking with a tea tray part full of water without spilling any, you can actually see and feel the effect. As you say, many other factors are involved, including the fact that to access the Quay ramp, one she had not used before, she had been ballasted by the bow, and this had not been corrected by the time the disaster occurred. As well as the speed she was travelling being a factor, causing the vessel to "Squat".

 

[pandas]

170 Liters is a big tank

In old money that is 37 gallons, 6 cubic feet, or a 3x2x1 foot cube, same as a large coffee table
It would weigh as much as two 6' rugby players when full.
I would presume your gray water tank is the same size as well ?

My Hymer has a 100 liter blue water tank and a 100 litre grey water tank.
Although in reality they are 90 liters and 80 liters respectively before water starts appearing where it should not, unless you are completely level and it's chilly outside.

(Warm water expands, hence you are unlikely to get 100 liters of water in a 100 litre gray water tank as the source is warm washing up water and warm shower water, both with added bubbles.)

fresh water 170 l, waste water less - I think 100 l but I cannot remember or be arsed to look it up again!

 

[Northernraider]

Well I start off with full water , full gas , full diesel and all declines as I travel to the next point I fill up whatever needs filling .

Can't say I've ever noticed a difference in either fuel consumption or performance from full to empty.

Van drives the same fully loaded

 

[pandas]

Decimal point issue.... 0.17 of a tonne. My (continental) van has a drain tap - nothing else. I think you are referring to what some manufacturers do when they are considerably payload restricted (3500 kg, mostly).

As Jim says, if that amount affected the handling in what is basically a builders van, I would either sell it or get the suspension looked at PDQ

what is a ‘continental’ van - do you mean it’s made in Europe?

 

[Coolcats]

No sorry but it’s a 170 l tank

If you have a 170 litre water tank, what does the handbook advise interms of the amount of water carried when traveling, ours is a 100 litre tank (not including the heater etc) and our Hymer handbook advises no more than 20 litres when traveling. .

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[Jim]

Can't say I've ever noticed a difference in either fuel consumption or performance from full to empty.

I don’t buy it that 85kg in a 4.5t van makes even a slight noticeable difference.
Travelling In a Motorhome, the only way the addition of 85Lwould have an noticeable effect on me is if it was in my bladder.

 

[dalspa]

In U.K. when going to a site, we would travel with at least a half full tank knowing that we can top up when arriving.
In France we always keep tank full as next aire may not have water available. However, on last day in France I would reduce water to bare minimum BUT more than make up weight saving with

 

[pandas]

If you have a 170 litre water tank, what does the handbook advise interms of the amount of water carried when traveling, ours is a 100 litre tank (not including the heater etc) and our Hymer handbook advises no more than 20 litres when traveling. .

As I posted previously it has a 2 stage knob on the tank which releases all but either 25 liters or empties totally. It as Li has a frost safety dump gizmo.

 

[Tykatem]

Our Hymer (B585 Starline) also has a 170 ltr capacity water tank (waste 135 ltr) We've never needed to travel with it full and neither would we want to, most times we take the advice given by Hymer and travel with 20 ltrs using the 2 stage knobby valve.

Pete

 

[pandas]

Even if it wasn’t noticeable (it would be) feels slightly strange to be carrying the equivalent of 4 bags of cement in the back if you didn’t need to. I remember occasionally keeping 1 bag in the boot to keep the rear wheels on the ground!

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[g3cwi]

It's only another tank of liquid same as the diesel tank.. Think about that

I’m pretty much a 90kg bag of water myself. Think about it.

 

[pandas]

Our Hymer (B585 Starline) also has a 170 ltr capacity water tank (waste 135 ltr) We've never needed to travel with it full and neither would we want to, most times we take the advice given by Hymer and travel with 20 ltrs using the 2 stage knobby valve.

Pete

Please take note all those doubters and those that know better.

 

[SteveRallye]

We tend to go 1/3 to 1/2 depending on duration or destination. We recently used a new really great CL and the waterpoint was 400 yds away plus no access with the van , had I known I would have put 100% in. I ended up buying a 25ltr container and using the trolly to transport and fill. Hard work in the heatwave at the time. However travelling thru Europe and using the aires I tend to put 100% in as its not always easily available to get bearing in mind the weight is going down as we travel and use it. Once we get to our main destination we then use a site as base.

 

[pandas]

I don’t buy it that 85kg in a 4.5t van makes even a slight noticeable difference.
Travelling In a Motorhome, the only way the addition of 85Lwould have an noticeable effect on me is if it was in my bladder.

@ 170 l You would if you weighed 160 kg and you suddenly put on nearly 7 bags of sugar.

 

[Ninjabob]

Only time I have travelled with a full tank and that was going to a Festival. I normally have a full tank of Diesel and will have enough water to prime the water system at home before leaving. Toilet Cassette primed and ready to go as well. So about 20 litres.

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[glenn2926]

If leaving the county then full. You can’t get Yorkshire water anywhere else.

 

[chatteris]

think my tank is only 60 litres so travel with full tank and additional 50 litres in garage as well I rarely go on a site and mainly wildcamp

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I cannot find my copy, but, I am pretty sure that the DOT official report, does state that the vessel had cleared the mole and was commencing a turn to Port, which of course she would have to do for Dover. The rest was just a simplistic version of what happened. Most people do not understand "free Surface effect" Nor how much it can effect stability. When I have been asked, I have just said to try walking with a tea tray part full of water without spilling any, you can actually see and feel the effect. As you say, many other factors are involved, including the fact that to access the Quay ramp, one she had not used before, she had been ballasted by the bow, and this had not been corrected by the time the disaster occurred. As well as the speed she was travelling being a factor, causing the vessel to "Squat".

You remember the report well

I read it last about 18 months ago (for a friend who was studying human factors in a presentation) and it was a litany of management complacency and arrogance, poor shipboard practice, poor design, lack of understanding of FSE (I’ve also used the full tea tray to demonstrate it to cadets), almost impossible scheduling and a bloke asleep when he should have been on duty. Shallow water squat effectively made the ship a lot deeper (same as ground effect in the old F1 cars). It was an accident that was always going to happen

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Please take note all those doubters and those that know better.

Thank you.

In the absence of any such instruction from the converter (are Hymer vans so flimsy that they cannot safely drive with a full water tank?) I will always use the van as intended - travel with full tanks in case water is hard or inconvenient to find at destination. No matter how posh they are, they are still based on builders vans

 

[PeteH]

You remember the report well

I read it last about 18 months ago (for a friend who was studying human factors in a presentation) and it was a litany of management complacency and arrogance, poor shipboard practice, poor design, lack of understanding of FSE (I’ve also used the full tea tray to demonstrate it to cadets), almost impossible scheduling and a bloke asleep when he should have been on duty. Shallow water squat effectively made the ship a lot deeper (same as ground effect in the old F1 cars). It was an accident that was always going to happen

In the aftermath, A large number of similar design ships had the Bow door permanently Sealed. As The C/O of a Tor Line ferry found out, having loaded an "oversize" unit right in the bow. I asked how he proposed to get it off?. Bow door he said!. Hmm, that won`t be easy. They sealed it last dry-dock and disconnected all the Hydraulics. Ooop`s

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[Coolcats]

As I posted previously it has a 2 stage knob on the tank which releases all but either 25 liters or empties totally. It as Li has a frost safety dump gizmo.

I may haveBut do you drive with a full tank

If leaving the county then full. You can’t get Yorkshire water anywhere else.

Thank goodness for that

 

[pandas]

Thank you.

In the absence of any such instruction from the converter (are Hymer vans so flimsy that they cannot safely drive with a full water tank?) I will always use the van as intended - travel with full tanks in case water is hard or inconvenient to find at destination. No matter how posh they are, they are still based on builders vans

Now I didn’t say they cannot drive safely just that I noticed the difference! Based on delivery driver vans which is slightly better!!!!

 

[pandas]

I may haveBut do you drive with a full tank

Thank goodness for that

No of course not.

 

[gpat]

All of this subjective. This all depends on your payload, what van you have, what chassis you have and where/How far you are going, and on and on we go.

Not really. 100+kgs is 100+kgs however you measure it. My bike weighs 8kg. So its like having 12 bikes in the van

or

125 loaves of bread
133 bottles of wine

Why would you unless you had to?

 

[gpat]

Well call me daft then ... we do nearly 100% of the time as we don't use sites so when away getting water isn't something we want to worry about unduly - having had a 60L and then a 100L freshwater tank the luxury of having a 150L one is wonderful so we make full use of it!


Well I'm daft again then as we like to keep the tank full when we set off then top it up whenever we feel the need or the fuel is cheap, last thing we want is to have a long journey and find that some of the fuel stops are no longer there or have been closed due to a problem.

Not necessarily, some don't let you fill a freshwater tank except for a small amount.

Only if you also put on some 'go faster' stripes!

Good job your not in

Aerospace
Formula 1
Cycling
Long distance travel.......DOH!

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[Dorset Diver]

I don’t buy it that 85kg in a 4.5t van makes even a slight noticeable difference.
Travelling In a Motorhome, the only way the addition of 85Lwould have an noticeable effect on me is if it was in my bladder.

Now that's an image I didn't need and that will take some time to erase !

 

[M-J]

Not really. 100+kgs is 100+kgs however you measure it. My bike weighs 8kg. So its like having 12 bikes in the van

or

125 loaves of bread
133 bottles of wine

Why would you unless you had to?

More like 80 bottles of wine, less if packed in boxes. Roughly 16kg per dozen in a decent double walled box

 

[busbuddy]

Why would you unless you had to?

Because they choose to

If I didn't take my partner with me I could save a load of kg's with all the stuff I would not have to carry and £'s but I choose to take her
In my race car, just fitting a passenger seat makes it behave differently let alone someone else getting in it

 

[mike mcglynn]

Having been underneath my van I’m not sure the supports are really strong enough to support a full tank whilst driving at motorway speeds. Thinking emergency stops and the like.

 

[Coolcats]

Because they choose to

If I didn't take my partner with me I could save a load of kg's with all the stuff I would not have to carry and £'s but I choose to take her
In my race car, just fitting a passenger seat makes it behave differently let alone someone else getting in it

Spot on, any weight makes a difference to the dynamics

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