DARK WATERS the Tefal poisoning story.

[Coolcats]

I have said from the beginning and more than once I don't want a free for all or a US style system. Why do you keep trying to represent me as though I do. Where have I said that I think we should have wholesale GM?

EU has a total ban as does the UK currently. The only exception is extremely small test sites. Now we are out of the EU, it is time for a sensible legislative process to decide what is acceptable and what testing and licensing system we want for them.

I think a perfectly reasonable position would be to allow us to import Bananas that are genetically modified to survive the fungus I mentioned above. This will allow those farmers in poor countries who are growing bananas to survive in business.

Currently the EU simply bans all GM products and doesn't even evaluate individual products for risk.

The European Union has established a legal framework to ensure that the development of modern biotechnology, and more specifically of GMOs, takes place in safe conditions. (in other words its not a ban but careful and consider development)

The legal framework aims to:​

• Protect human and animal health and the environment by introducing a safety assessment of the highest possible standards at EU level before any GMO is placed on the market.
• Put in place harmonised procedures for risk assessment and authorisation of GMOs that are efficient, time-limited and transparent.
• Ensure clear labelling of GMOs placed on the market in order to enable consumers as well as professionals (e.g. farmers, and food feed chain operators) to make an informed choice.
• Ensure the traceability of GMOs placed on the market

This to me seems a sensible and pragmatic approach can you think of anything missing?

 

[Coolcats]

We already tamper with nature in a very bad with with excessive pesticide, fertiliser and other chemicals.

What I am proposing is that we look at genetically modified crops that can protect themselves from pests and thus allow us to stop using all those nasty chemicals which will in turn benefit all wildlife.

How to increase beneficial insects in arable crops​

No GM crops or pesticides are needed

 

[Gromett]

The European Union has established a legal framework to ensure that the development of modern biotechnology, and more specifically of GMOs, takes place in safe conditions. (in other words its not a ban but careful and consider development)

The legal framework aims to:​

• Protect human and animal health and the environment by introducing a safety assessment of the highest possible standards at EU level before any GMO is placed on the market.
• Put in place harmonised procedures for risk assessment and authorisation of GMOs that are efficient, time-limited and transparent.
• Ensure clear labelling of GMOs placed on the market in order to enable consumers as well as professionals (e.g. farmers, and food feed chain operators) to make an informed choice.
• Ensure the traceability of GMOs placed on the market

This to me seems a sensible and pragmatic approach can you think of anything missing?

You don't seem to realise that since 2001 there has been an EU moratorium on new assessments or licenses. This is in effect a ban. 20 years of zero approvals.

 

[Gromett]

How to increase beneficial insects in arable crops​

No GM crops or pesticides are needed

I have never said GM was suitable in all cases. I specifically used the Banana example because there is no pesticide that kills the Fusarium wilt fungus. All other options are not suitable for the mass market and cross breeding to breed in natural resistance could take decades.

Let me be totally clear as you don't seem to understand my position or are just being argumentative.

1) I don't want a free for all on GM
2) I KNOW it is not the answer to ALL problems
3) If there is another solution that doesn't involve chemicals then that option should be used.
4) I don't want to go down the US route.
5) I want it to be well regulated and strongly enforced.
6) I want it to be used where other options are not suitable or no other practical options exist.

Banning it outright like the EU currently does is NOT the answer.

I hope that clears things up for you.

 

[Gromett]

Coolcats I am very good at technical details but not so good at formulating arguments and explaining things. I have spent half an hour looking for an article that explains things clearly and concisely. This is one of the better articles I have read so far.
It is not too long and gets straight to the point.

EU bans on pesticides and GMOs will lead to a food crisis | View

Europe is sleepwalking into a food crisis and politicians are doing nothing to stop it.

www.euronews.com

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[Sid52]

Coolcats I am very good at technical details but not so good at formulating arguments and explaining things. I have spent half an hour looking for an article that explains things clearly and concisely. This is one of the better articles I have read so far.
It is not too long and gets straight to the point.

EU bans on pesticides and GMOs will lead to a food crisis | View

Europe is sleepwalking into a food crisis and politicians are doing nothing to stop it.

www.euronews.com

An excellent article. As it rightly states, we have become used to food that is cheap and readily available. In the 50s and 60s, food cost was about 40% of the average income, now it is less than 10%. Nowadays testing of pesticides is at an all time high, certainly a lot safer than the organochlorines and organophosphates, and mercury seed dressings of the 60s and 70s.
Without modern pesticides there would be widespread starvation, firstly in the third world but eventually in Europe. It is only right that exhaustive testing should be continued, and there is no doubt that food has never been safer. Gene editing, simply speeding up a natural breeding programme, is perfectly safe. Gene modification, introducing genetic material of a separate species, should not be dismissed, but does need strict controls.

 

[TinaLes]

We watched the film this evening, Thanks for the recommendation.
I really dont know how we would manage without our Tefal 3inch deep sauté pan with glass lid, we have used it for over 20 years at home most importantly in the van for one pot meals.
I have not experieced any teflon peeling on any Tefal products in recent years, but I do remeber older inferior products doing that.
I know some people are very cautious of using aluminium pots pans because of the risks of early dementia, well the good news is that we have more products to choose from thesedays, like stainless steel etc.
We do grow as much as possible of our own veg fruit on out two allotments, but with varying results each year dependent on weather conditions.
Its seems another one of those dammed if you do, dammed if dont scenarios.
Thanks for the heads up on this, cannot remember Dupont/Teflon problem being reported here in the UK at any time?
Why aren't the dementia charities not pointing out the risk if any?
LES

 

[Coolcats]

You don't seem to realise that since 2001 there has been an EU moratorium on new assessments or licenses. This is in effect a ban. 20 years of zero approvals.

Ok Gromett here is what happens in the US. Farmer A plants GM crop, it’s a premium seed and the GM company has IP rights to it, it’s a little like PRs and music if you play Music in a public place you pay a licence fee. Farmer B uses a non proprietary or Non GM seed. During the growing period cross fertilisation happens insects cross pollinate from A to B. Each season the farmers keep some seed back for the next crop. The growing season or two passes and the GM company happens to be carrying out random tests on who is using their product and finds that Farmer B now has GM seed as the insects did their job in pollination. Farmer B now has to pay the GM company a licence fee.

This is how the GM companies make those money. So even if there is Zero health or environmental issues there is a financial one. The EU is doing what the majority of the population has said they do not want and have a safety framework for doing so The UK voted for the ban it’s the US pushing for their Farming processes to be adopted, where is our safety framework on GM seeds or are is the UK just going to tear up the safety framework and use the GM companies sales playbook?

 

[Coolcats]

DARK WATERS Amazon Prime

Hi watched this last night, true story about Dupont (3M Dow etc) concealing how their Teflon manufacture caused death, cancers and birth defects.

Started in late 60s with cases still ongoing today.

The ‘forever’ chemical PFOA C8 has recently been replaced by another, but the long term effects of this are still unknown.

May have you throwing out all your nonstick pans.

Excellent film, well worth a watch

It was a good film downloaded this a few months back, out of interest Le Crueset make non stick pans but they are not made from Teflon no idea how much safer they are but given the issue over Teflon I suspect they are.

 

[Coolcats]

You don't seem to realise that since 2001 there has been an EU moratorium on new assessments or licenses. This is in effect a ban. 20 years of zero approvals.

I do realise Gromett and we (the UK votes for it)

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[Coolcats]

6) I want it to be used where other options are not suitable or no other practical options exist.

Name one Crop which is so affected that it cannot be grown commercially unless it has been GM. This is about big money and big business not the health of the nation. The UK had this argument 20 years ago green peace activists tore up a field of corn not far from me and were arrested went to court to be proscecuted and the. Released. All that is happening here is that the arguments are being redirected. We have a government that has just overturned a pesticide ban and will do this for GM. This is my last post on the subject

 

[Gromett]

Ok Gromett here is what happens in the US. Farmer A plants GM crop, it’s a premium seed and the GM company has IP rights to it, it’s a little like PRs and music if you play Music in a public place you pay a licence fee. Farmer B uses a non proprietary or Non GM seed. During the growing period cross fertilisation happens insects cross pollinate from A to B. Each season the farmers keep some seed back for the next crop. The growing season or two passes and the GM company happens to be carrying out random tests on who is using their product and finds that Farmer B now has GM seed as the insects did their job in pollination. Farmer B now has to pay the GM company a licence fee.

This is how the GM companies make those money. So even if there is Zero health or environmental issues there is a financial one. The EU is doing what the majority of the population has said they do not want and have a safety framework for doing so The UK voted for the ban it’s the US pushing for their Farming processes to be adopted, where is our safety framework on GM seeds or are is the UK just going to tear up the safety framework and use the GM companies sales playbook?

You are doing it again. Why? I know about the Monsanto situation and I have already stated EXTREMELY clearly I don't want to replicate it here. How many times do I have to say it?

 

[Gromett]

Name one Crop which is so affected that it cannot be grown commercially unless it has been GM. This is about big money and big business not the health of the nation. The UK had this argument 20 years ago green peace activists tore up a field of corn not far from me and were arrested went to court to be proscecuted and the. Released. All that is happening here is that the arguments are being redirected. We have a government that has just overturned a pesticide ban and will do this for GM. This is my last post on the subject

I have given one example a few time already The Cavendish Banana. I can't give any other examples because agriculture is not an area I study in any great detail. There are other examples though. I am sure potato blight would be another as there are literally no chemical control methods.

You seem to be missing my point. The use of GM would allow us to reduce chemical use... That is a good thing for the environment.

If we reduce chemical use without GM then our food production yields would collapse, food shortages would ensue and prices would rise. GM would allow us to reduce chemical usage whilst at the same time maintain yield.

The government HASN'T overturned a pesticide ban. Don't you read what I write?

I have posted this before but will do so again. THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T OVERTURNED THE PESTICIDE BAN!!!!

Reporting of strict controls for emergency pesticide authorisation – Defra in the media

Updates from Defra

deframedia.blog.gov.uk

 

[Shrimp]

I knew I didn’t like non-stick pans for a reason!

 

[Minxy]

I saw this film previously, its like all stuff, if you don't use Tefal coated pans etc properly then it 'could' be harmful, the issues in the film weren't caused by cooking in a pan, hence the name 'Dark Waters'. Equate it to butter ... we all know it's not great calorifically but also cholestrally, yet we still eat it.

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[ambulancekidd]

I'll watch that later, thanks.

 

[Tombola]

For the actual pans...it was quite often spoke about when I was in catering many years ago, dont bother with non stick. It was said its not an issue unless you over cook (almost burn) food and the non stick had minute particle release that wasnt good for you.
In the same way walking down a street where cars go really.

 

[Marmite]

Is this story about "Tefal" as per the title, or "Teflon" as per the text?

Suggest you change title to Teflon before there are complaints from Tefal

 

[TinaLes]

Is this story about "Tefal" as per the title, or "Teflon" as per the text?

Suggest you change title to Teflon before there are complaints from Tefal

Not sure but as far as I was aware, ALL pans that are of the Black Coated Non Stick Variety, are coated with Teflon, so the Brand Name is irrelevant isnt it?
If there is still a public health issue with all modern Teflon Coated products, why are they still being marketed & sold? I can only hope that manufacturing procedure's have changed in the meantime.
LES

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

Just put Dark waters on . I don’t know if it’s my TV ( it’s new so it shouldn’t be ) but it’s very dark and dingy .
Thanks though, looks like it’ll be good. I watched an Australian film a couple of weeks ago about Asbestos. Factories and mines out there , the thousands that died and were finally compensated.
That was really good too. Can’t for the life of me remember it’s name though...

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[Minxy]

Is this story about "Tefal" as per the title, or "Teflon" as per the text?

Suggest you change title to Teflon before there are complaints from Tefal

He'll be fine ... nothing sticks to him!

 

[Minxy]

Just put Dark waters on . I don’t know if it’s my TV ( it’s new so it shouldn’t be ) but it’s very dark and dingy .
Thanks though, looks like it’ll be good. I watched an Australian film a couple of weeks ago about Asbestos. Factories and mines out there , the thousands that died and were finally compensated.
That was really good too. Can’t for the life of me remember it’s name though...

Was it this one?

Devil’s Dust – Australian movie on asbestos and corporate morality – SafetyAtWorkBlog

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

That’s it
I’d just found it myself

Devil's Dust (TV Mini Series 2012) ⭐ 8.1 | Biography, Drama

Devil's Dust: With Anthony Hayes, Don Hany, Ewen Leslie, Alexandra Schepisi. Follow the corporate scandal surrounding multi-national asbestos company, James Hardie, the life or death fight against their strategy of ignoring the dangers of asbestos for decades, and the desperate fight to expose...

www.imdb.com

Now shush I’m watching Dark waters
It’s still very dark and dingy .

 

[Coolcats]

Minxy Girl save the popcorn for a nice film I’m not commenting further on GM

 

[movan]

A little bit of good news doesn't do any harm though.

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