Wow, you must have learnt to drive a very long time ago. I thought that driving in the gutter hasn't been recommended since Freddie Flintstone learnt to drive.
Cycling 2 abreast
- Thread starter Mrjenben
- Start date
glenn2926
Free Member
Yup, and a number of them do. They can pull out one metre in front of a car travelling a sixty miles per hour on a national speed limit road and it will be the drivers fault. Crazy I know but cyclists like it. They can ride four abreast to hold up other traffic without anyone being allowed to overtake. Again crazy but cyclists like to do it. All road users should be accountable in law for their actions but cyclists can get away with just ignoring traffic law.
Chipster
LIFE MEMBER
How do the anti cyclists feel about horse riders riding two abreast?
bobandjanie
LIFE MEMBER
.
The narrower the road the further I ride from the edge ......... because if you don't they come past as if your not there,
swap a motorcycle for a moped and see how your position changes. 
Here in the Costa Blanca in winter cycle clubs from all over Europe train, you get used to being stuck behind cyclist and the support vehicles, everyday is like the tour de France, if a vehicle is involved in an accident with a cyclist,
the driver will be in the wrong. 
Bob.
With the cyclist in the first picture in that position, is there enough room on the rest of the road to overtake at 1.5m
The narrower the road the further I ride from the edge ......... because if you don't they come past as if your not there,
swap a motorcycle for a moped and see how your position changes. Here in the Costa Blanca in winter cycle clubs from all over Europe train, you get used to being stuck behind cyclist and the support vehicles, everyday is like the tour de France, if a vehicle is involved in an accident with a cyclist,
the driver will be in the wrong. Bob.Really? Another hyperbolic straw man argument. A cyclist who did that would be dead. Do cyclists really like that? I know many cyclists, can't think of any who does that or likes the ability to do it. But put it up as an argument as to why all cyclists are scofflaw dangers to the poor car driver by all means.
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glenn2926
Free Member
Yeah I understand that’s the law in some places. Here the cyclist would deliberately cause an accident just because it would someone else’s fault and not the cyclists..
The narrower the road the further I ride from the edge ......... because if you don't they come past as if your not there,
Here in the Costa Blanca in winter cycle clubs from all over Europe train, you get used to being stuck behind cyclist and the support vehicles, everyday is like the tour de France, if a vehicle is involved in an accident with a cyclist,
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You appear to tarring all cyclists with the same brush, seemingly because you've had bad experiences with some of them.
As a true petrol head, I drive my home built car, my motor bike and Motorhome, my wife and I also cycle for leisure, if possible we always move over for other traffic, including the morons in cars who can't wait a few minutes or who can't judge a good overtake.
However I couldn't give a flying... If I hold someone up because of road conditions, it's down to them to read the road and act accordingly.
glenn2926
Free Member
Its
That seems to be purely a cyclist attitude.
It’s not the fact that cyclists will do it. It’s the fact the law allows them to that is wrong. They should be subject to all the same road traffic laws as all other road users. That way we all have the same responsibility for each other’s safety and wellbeing. I do cycle, motorcycle, drive cars, 4x4s, vans, motorhomes, trucks and have in the past ridden horses on the road. I’ve never thought I should have more rights than other road users though.Really? Another hyperbolic straw man argument. A cyclist who did that would be dead. Do cyclists really like that? I know many cyclists, can't think of any who does that or likes the ability to do it. But put it up as an argument as to why all cyclists are scofflaw dangers to the poor car driver by all means.
That seems to be purely a cyclist attitude.
bobandjanie
LIFE MEMBER
I must admit we find cycling in the UK dangerous, on our last trip we was on little country lanes, and could hear a lorry coming behind checked my mirror and pulled over because there was nowhere to go, just put my foot on the raised bank and he came past very close probably still doing about 20 / 25mph,
and that's without holding him up. People like that need educating before they kill someone.
Bob.
On that point you may well be correct but the requirements of the Highway Code still apply.
Ian
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Hilarious. What a ...............
You need to get a grip. You've obviously had a bad experience with a bad cyclist (or two maybe?). There's no point taking it any further. You're blind to anyone's POV but your own.
Really? I don't recall any incidents of that happening. Again, hyperbolic straw man. The idea that cyclists are psychopaths causing accidents because they can is absolutely ludicrous.
Cyclists don't have more rights in the way you mean than any other road user; in the new highway code hierarchy pedestrians are in that position, but it's still just presumed responsibility - if it can be proven that a cyclist caused an accident they will still be liable and able to be prosecuted, and the law hasn't changed at all. It's not a get-out-of-jail-free card, regardless of how you misrepresent it.
If you do want to go down the rights route though, people have the right to use the roads on bicycles, horses or on foot. People don't have the right to use motor vehicles on the roads, they are permitted to do so by license and can be barred from doing so. So, in some ways, a cyclist does have more rights than a driver
There was a recent episode of Crash Detectives (iPlayer) which featured a cyclist hit by an hgv loaded with steel. It turned out that the cyclist had turned right, across the path of the truck, without checking behind him at all. Furthermore he was turning right into a road clearly marked ‘no right turn’. The cyclist by some miracle survived against all the odds, but I felt very, very sorry for the lorry driver who had zero chance of avoiding the cyclist.
Just glad i don't ride in the UK(well not very often at least)
It's actually nowhere near as bad as this thread would make you think. I do many thousands of miles each year, notable incidents are very few and far between. In general, most cyclists and most motor vehicle drivers/riders are considerate of each other and there's some fantastic places to see that you can only truly appreciate travelling at human speeds inside the environment rather than whizzing past in a metal box.
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Road Traffic Act 1988 S28 onwards deals with cycling offences!
Me too, reading this thread is enough to put anyone off riding there....some of the responses I've read from a small group on a Friendly Forum has somewhat concerned me.....Just glad i don't ride in the UK
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Interesting.
I note that a cyclist can only be done for cycling dangerously, defined that involves injury or damage to property.
I think this replaces the phrase cycling furiously.
I should have said significant parts of the road traffic act do not apply to cyclists.
If anything I have been pleasantly surprised at the large amount of positive comments both on the thread and via PMs.Me too, reading this thread is enough to put anyone off riding there....some of the responses I've read from a small group on a Friendly Forum has somewhat concerned me.....
I cycle around 2-3000 miles per year, both here and in France/Spain. Mainly with small groups.
Do we cycle 2 abreast? No. Because there are a small minority of people who decide they are going to pass us come what may. When they do this, and the inevitable near collision with oncoming traffic occurs, we would like to have as much room for manoeuvre as possible.
Would we like to cycle 2 abreast? Yes. In the right situations and for all the reasons in the professional opinions I posted.
I’m not saying it’s right in all circumstance, or that slower moving cyclists shouldn’t move over and allow cars to safely pass as soon as possible. Some cyclists (and drivers) do make mistakes and/or behave discourteously, but this shouldn’t be an excuse to run every one of us off the road.
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Ridgeway
LIFE MEMBER
One thing that always puzzles me is that if I ride along with 2-3 friends and we ride at 40kmh, then people try to squeeze by, get frustrated etc etc. Yet if cars get stuck behind a tractor doing 40kmh they have no choice but to wait for a safe overtake opportunity, no silly overtakes and less frustration. Seems the bigger the obstacle then the more accepting we are and probably more sensible at passing it.
Now to find a tractor to slip stream for my commute to work
Now to find a tractor to slip stream for my commute to work
glenn2926
Free Member
I think it’s because the tractor driver is doing his best and is working. Also the vast majority of tractor drivers around here wherever possible pull over to let the faster traffic past. They also drive as far to the left as possible.The drivers don’t seem to have the “I’m entitled” attitude either. The farmers on their ATVs either side by side or sit astride will try not cause a hold up as do the gamekeepers.One thing that always puzzles me is that if I ride along with 2-3 friends and we ride at 40kmh, then people try to squeeze by, get frustrated etc etc. Yet if cars get stuck behind a tractor doing 40kmh they have no choice but to wait for a safe overtake opportunity, no silly overtakes and less frustration. Seems the bigger the obstacle then the more accepting we are and probably more sensible at passing it.
Now to find a tractor to slip stream for my commute to work
The same with the horse riders, even the young riders seem to realise that they should allow faster vehicles past whenever they can.
I wonder if they all realise it’s safer and keeps traffic flowing if we all look after our own and others safety on the roads.
Pirahna
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Six people in my cycling club were out for a ride yesterday morning, they did admit to riding 2 abreast. To teach them a lesson a van driver coming in the opposite direction had to swerve across the road. I'll post some pictures later if I can be arsed but, nobody was killed, 2 were kept in hospital, 1 is having surgery today on a broken kneecap and shoulder. The van driver had to stop because he couldn't see through the windscreen, yes, he'd driven head on into them.
I love cycling but there are so many cretins on the roads I stick to riding off road these days, I only have to deal with cretins on foot there.
Anyway, my house is sold, my new van is imminent, I have an Irish passport and I'm off. I have such as intense dislike for the UK it's unlikely I'll live here again.
I love cycling but there are so many cretins on the roads I stick to riding off road these days, I only have to deal with cretins on foot there.
Anyway, my house is sold, my new van is imminent, I have an Irish passport and I'm off. I have such as intense dislike for the UK it's unlikely I'll live here again.
I cycle with my group 2 abreast in most situations as it is safer for us and other road users. However we have had to vehicles swerve from the other side of the road into our path, albeit briefly, to try and intimidate us and we still get idiots overtaking us and pulling in very closely.
Ironically, the last ride we ended up single file going up a hill and because the car driver behind thought he could squeeze past, he's did, even though it was on a blind corner. The car coming the other way had to almost stop as the moron overtook us and returned to our side of the road. He saved himself a couple of seconds at most but put several folk at risk.
We tend to find more idiots try to squeeze past when we ride single file.
Ironically, the last ride we ended up single file going up a hill and because the car driver behind thought he could squeeze past, he's did, even though it was on a blind corner. The car coming the other way had to almost stop as the moron overtook us and returned to our side of the road. He saved himself a couple of seconds at most but put several folk at risk.
We tend to find more idiots try to squeeze past when we ride single file.
That's awful Pirahna, best wishes for a speedy recovery for them.
More serious problems seem to be caused by motorists having a "You're not entitled to be on this road, I'll teach you a lesson" than by cyclists. I'm sure much of this is fuelled by Clarkson type media rants about how cyclists should be driven over, or people like Matthew Parris in The Times writing about how cyclists should be lynched and beheaded. That makes appalling behaviour towards a vulnerable group seem appropriate, and was a big reason for the change in the Highway Code to make motorists aware of their responsibilities as operators of massive hunks of deadly machinery.
Thankfully incidents on the road are rare, and most rides are very pleasant.
More serious problems seem to be caused by motorists having a "You're not entitled to be on this road, I'll teach you a lesson" than by cyclists. I'm sure much of this is fuelled by Clarkson type media rants about how cyclists should be driven over, or people like Matthew Parris in The Times writing about how cyclists should be lynched and beheaded. That makes appalling behaviour towards a vulnerable group seem appropriate, and was a big reason for the change in the Highway Code to make motorists aware of their responsibilities as operators of massive hunks of deadly machinery.
Thankfully incidents on the road are rare, and most rides are very pleasant.
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Ridgeway
LIFE MEMBER
Must admit that I’ve never considered a persons reason to be on a road related to any form of justification for anything, seems an odd way to look at it. I hope I act decently on the road whether I’m driving or riding professionally or for pleasure
Ridgeway
LIFE MEMBER
Wow
Hope they’re all going to be fine. Could it have been accidental, maybe the driver just made a mistake ?
I don’t think that the legislation is saying that it ‘involves’ injury or damage but that it could foreseeably lead to …..
The legislation, like much other legislation, is drafted in such a way that the judgement is based on the view likely to be taken by other competent cyclists.
In other words, i) would other competent cyclists take the view that his/her actions were reasonable, and ii) would other competent cyclists have foreseen the potential consequences of such action (in terms of the potentially dangerous outcome).
Ian
If you do want to go down the rights route though, people have the right to use the roads on bicycles, horses or on foot. People don't have the right to use motor vehicles on the roads, they are permitted to do so by license and can be barred from doing so. So, in some ways, a cyclist does have more rights than a driver
Seems simple.....make road users equal and introduce same licensing laws etc for cyclists.
You can’t be against every road user having the same rights surely.....or can you?
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No you really need to learn the law. Anything using the road however propeled has to abide by the regulations.
**The definition of a road in England and Wales is ‘any highway and any other road to which the public has access and includes bridges over which a road passes’ (RTA 1988 sect 192(1)). In Scotland, there is a similar definition which is extended to include any way over which the public have a right of passage (R(S)A 1984 sect 151(1)).
It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks). In most cases, the law will apply to them and there may be additional rules for particular paths or ways. Some serious driving offences, including drink-driving offences, also apply to all public places, for example public car parks.**
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192/enacted
General interpretation of Act
(1)In this Act—
“cycle” means a bicycle, a tricycle, or a cycle having four or more wheels, not being in any case a motor vehicle
I have no problems with 99% of horse riders . I slow down & wait for an opportunity to pass them at slow speed. same as anything else. I have a problem with where I lived coming across race horses out on remote lanes with high banked sides & you come round a bend to find 20 horses worth millions of pounds completely blocking the road. But it is your fault they now have to get in single file to get past you? what's that all about?
They are
You're far braver than me. I wouldn't even use a motorbike as most ca't even see one of them.
It all applies to any type of road user.
It was explained to me quite succinctly by a traffic cop years ago.
" a cyclist leaving the house has 2 choices . walk alongside pushing the cycle along the pavement as a pedestrian ,or place in the road & cycle off. When you do that you are subject to the exact same conditions as any other road user. You cannot stop at traffic lights or a zebra crossing , get off & cross the road as a pedestrian .It is illegal . " " You have to travel in the same manner as other road users"
As above .too true.
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