Cycling 2 abreast

[Guigsy]

I was taught whilst learning to drive that I shouldn’t do anything which causes any other road user to change speed or direction.

I was taught that any ACTION I take shouldn't do anything to cause another driver to change speed or direction.

When you are driving multiple tons of propelled metal, why should you take priority over someone that's taking up a lot less road space?

 

[Mrjenben]

We used regularly to come across a pretty drawn out gaggle with someone at the front and back in a yellow vest seemingly in charge they were typically spread out over 100 yards with no usable gaps on country lanes making it impossible to overtake safely. To it seemed a really stupid way to ride I waited others migght well have not they were making it more dangerous for themselves

Yes. you’re right. They would probably be better off riding 2 abreast in groups of around 10.

 

[Harrogate motorhomer]

Have to agree about the dark clothing. Should be compulsory to wear something luminous or reflective.
My main gripe is cyclists who think it’s ok to undertake in traffic, just asking to be knocked off.
Always want to tell them overtaking is on the right.

 

[Mrjenben]

Have to agree about the dark clothing. Should be compulsory to wear something luminous or reflective.
My main gripe is cyclists who think it’s ok to undertake in traffic, just asking to be knocked off.
Always want to tell them overtaking is on the right.

Interestingly (to me anyway), the Ineos cycling team kit for races is black, but their training outfit when they’re out on the open road is bright orange.

 

[MattR]

Have to agree about the dark clothing. Should be compulsory to wear something luminous or reflective.
My main gripe is cyclists who think it’s ok to undertake in traffic, just asking to be knocked off.
Always want to tell them overtaking is on the right.

You're lucky that cyclists can undertake you in traffic ... many cars around here seem to think that they should be driving or parking in cycle lanes making them even more difficult to use. When overtaking on the right, some drivers with fragile egos struggle to cope with being overtaken and accelerate as fast as they can to undertake the cyclists and make it difficult to get back into the left handside of the lane.

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[Lenny HB]

The average motorist hasn't even read The Highway Code..BUSBY.

I read it in 1968 just before I took my test.

Here regardless of where they are you have to legally give a minimum of 1,5 m to the outer rider

I thought it was the same in the UK now but most motorists ignore it.

If I'm cycling at 25mph, should I really be on a shared use pavement with kids and pedestrians, and having to stop at every side road?

You shouldn't be cycling at that speed on a shared path and the pedestrians have priority so you should cycle slow enough not to endanger them.

 

[MattR]

I read it in 1968 just before I took my test.

I thought it was the same in the UK now but most motorists ignore it.

You should be cycling at that speed on a shared path and the pedestrians have priority so you should cycle slow enough not to endanger them.

By logic, that should apply to cycling on the road; as a shared highway, cars and lorries etc should drive slow enough not to endanger cyclists. Great news. Simple enough for every road user to understand.

 

[Ashburham]

Simples, give some space.

 

[BDM]

The HMSO guide Cyclecraft sets all this out but the average motorist hasn't read it or even knows of its existence.

From what I see on the roads I don't think the average cyclist has read it or even knows of it's existence!

 

[Stonemags76]

I’m a nervous cyclist, & I will only ride on the roads in France & Spain, where consideration is given to cyclists. As was said earlier, you can tell who are the British drivers by the fact that they nearly knock you off!

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[Pugsy]

I’m a nervous cyclist, & I will only ride on the roads in France & Spain, where consideration is given to cyclists. As was said earlier, you can tell who are the British drivers by the fact that they nearly knock you off!

I agree with the first part of your post however I was nearly knocked off 3 times within 400m ( all different cars pulling out of side street, carpark and from not giving me enough room whilst passing) all of them Spanish, I know as I spoke to them all,after having to hit the brakes.This was
cycling in Los Alcazares earlier this year. It's a dodgy hobby anywhere and you have to always keep your wits about you. I can't understand when I see cyclists with headphones on???. Stay safe out there.

 

[glenn2926]

You're lucky that cyclists can undertake you in traffic ... many cars around here seem to think that they should be driving or parking in cycle lanes making them even more difficult to use. When overtaking on the right, some drivers with fragile egos struggle to cope with being overtaken and accelerate as fast as they can to undertake the cyclists and make it difficult to get back into the left handside of the lane.

I’m pretty sure undertaking is illegal. Overtaking, going on the outside is legal which is why motorcyclists go on the outside. Cyclists do seem to think that road traffic laws don’t apply to them.
If there is a cycle lane then continuing along this lane is ok even if the car lane is stopped.

 

[glenn2926]

I was taught that any ACTION I take shouldn't do anything to cause another driver to change speed or direction.

When you are driving multiple tons of propelled metal, why should you take priority over someone that's taking up a lot less road space?

If you were taught that. Which is the same as I was taught then why should cyclists be allowed to cause other road users to alter their speed and direction?
Simply by travelling at a very slow pace will and does cause other road users to alter their speed. This action alone goes against your own teaching.

 

[mofurt]

You shouldn't be cycling at that speed on a shared path and the pedestrians have priority so you should cycle slow enough not to endanger them.

I agree, so I ride on the road in those circumstances - which doesn't stop car drivers swerving into me and yelling abuse about how I should be on the shared footpath. It's funny how many think it's okay to physically endanger me in order to tell me it's unsafe for me to be on the road.

 

[gpat]

I’m pretty sure undertaking is illegal. Overtaking, going on the outside is legal which is why motorcyclists go on the outside. Cyclists do seem to think that road traffic laws don’t apply to them.
If there is a cycle lane then continuing along this lane is ok even if the car lane is stopped.

AFAIK Undertaking on a bike is definate not illegal so long as the vehicle you are undertaking is stationery. It's called filtering.

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[mofurt]

Funnily enough, there is isn't a specific offence of undertaking in the UK in any vehicle. You can be done for driving with due care and attention or dangerous driving if your undertake falls into one of those categories, and if you undertake and there is an accident (e.g. undertaking on the motorway and the vehicle on your right sideswipes you moving in to your lane) it's not going to go well for you trying to prove you weren't at fault.

The highway code states that car drivers should be aware of filtering bicycles and motorbikes in slow/stationary traffic.

 

[PP Bear]

The average motorist hasn't even read The Highway Code..BUSBY.

You mean there’s a code!!!!

 

[glenn2926]

AFAIK Undertaking on a bike is definate not illegal so long as the vehicle you are undertaking is stationery. It's called filtering.

No it’s not called filtering. Filtering is going down the outside of a line of traffic. I do this everyday on my motorcycle. I wouldn’t dream of going down the near side, inside of traffic. Have you never seen the signs on the back of HGVs saying passing side, suicide? Some say overtaking, undertaking. Meaning literally visiting the undertakers. Going down the inside is very dangerous.

 

[glenn2926]

Funnily enough, there is isn't a specific offence of undertaking in the UK in any vehicle. You can be done for driving with due care and attention or dangerous driving if your undertake falls into one of those categories, and if you undertake and there is an accident (e.g. undertaking on the motorway and the vehicle on your right sideswipes you moving in to your lane) it's not going to go well for you trying to prove you weren't at fault.

The highway code states that car drivers should be aware of filtering bicycles and motorbikes in slow/stationary traffic.

I am under the impression one can only be done for driving without due care and attention. To me driving down the inside is very dangerous. If one wants to pass a vehicle go around it on the offside it’s much safer.

 

[Guigsy]

If you were taught that. Which is the same as I was taught then why should cyclists be allowed to cause other road users to alter their speed and direction?
Simply by travelling at a very slow pace will and does cause other road users to alter their speed. This action alone goes against your own teaching.

By extension, a car turning right and making cars wait behind it would also break the rule.

My instructor said to imagine every driver is thinking and planning 3 seconds ahead. You should avoid taking any action that changes their 3 second plan. Drivers should have more than 3 seconds of visibility ahead to see a slow moving a cyclist. Therefore having to wait to overtake them is not breaking their plan. So is fair gain. Equally, if in a car, you want to turn right and indicate a few seconds before you brake and turn, you aren't affecting their 3 second plan. Simples.

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[mofurt]

On the motorbike I'll go between lanes on a multi-lane road, or down the middle. I'll only go down the inside if there is a right turning vehicle, and then very cautiously.

On the bicycle I'll do any of them, depending upon circumstances. Going down the left between cars and the kerb in slow/stationary traffic is extra dangerous as you're likely to get passengers opening the door to jump out without looking, as well as the very real danger of going alongside a large vehicle and getting squashed if it turns or edges to the kerb. On the motorbike I'll even pull to one side doing slow speed filtering to let a faster bicycle through.

Any over/undertaking of cars needs to be done very cautiously, and also with a view to "is my gain worth it?" - I'll generally not filter to the front of a short queue on a bicycle as I don't need the stress of those cars immediately overtaking again, though I might in London where the cars aren't going anywhere fast, or on the motorbike where I'll be gone before they put it into gear and take off the handbrake. Again, just sharing the road (though it's amazing how some car drivers stuck in stationary motorway queues will try to block motorcycles getting through).

 

[mofurt]

I am under the impression one can only be done for driving without due care and attention. To me driving down the inside is very dangerous. If one wants to pass a vehicle go around it on the offside it’s much safer.

Depends on conditions. For example, if there's a queue of cars in lane 3 ("fast lane") on the motorway and nothing in 1 and 2, I'll happily undertake in lane 1. It's not illegal, and with an empty lane between us is perfectly safe. Weaving in an out I'd never do. A two lane dual carriageway with an empty left hand lane, I'd take a view based on other prevailing conditions (e.g. speed in lane 2, junctions, is it actually worth it?).

 

[glenn2926]

By extension, a car turning right and making cars wait behind it would also break the rule.

My instructor said to imagine every driver is thinking and planning 3 seconds ahead. You should avoid taking any action that changes their 3 second plan. Drivers should have more than 3 seconds of visibility ahead to see a slow moving a cyclist. Therefore having to wait to overtake them is not breaking their plan. So is fair gain. Equally, if in a car, you want to turn right and indicate a few seconds before you brake and turn, you aren't affecting their 3 second plan. Simples.

I do think most of us use the roads trying not inconvenience other road users. The only ones that don’t care about inconveniencing other road users are cyclists.
It would seem from just the few cyclists on here that they expect everyone but themselves to responsible for the cyclists safety.

 

[glenn2926]

Depends on conditions. For example, if there's a queue of cars in lane 3 ("fast lane") on the motorway and nothing in 1 and 2, I'll happily undertake in lane 1. It's not illegal, and with an empty lane between us is perfectly safe. Weaving in an out I'd never do. A two lane dual carriageway with an empty left hand lane, I'd take a view based on other prevailing conditions (e.g. speed in lane 2, junctions, is it actually worth it?).

That’s my opinion for where there is a cycle lane as well. However undertaking where there isn’t a cycle lane is just plain stupid in my opinion and I certainly wouldn’t do it either on the mountain bike or the motorbike.

 

[gpat]

No it’s not called filtering. Filtering is going down the outside of a line of traffic. I do this everyday on my motorcycle. I wouldn’t dream of going down the near side, inside of traffic. Have you never seen the signs on the back of HGVs saying passing side, suicide? Some say overtaking, undertaking. Meaning literally visiting the undertakers. Going down the inside is very dangerous.

Yes I it called filtering. We are talking cycling here. I'm not saying I recommend it and neither am I saying it is safe.

I commute through traffic everyday on the bike. All situations are different. I go on the right when I can but sometimes car drivers drive in the middle of the road so I go on the inside of them. Some drivers drive with wheels on the kerb to impede me. I go round them.

You cannot be done for driving without due care and attention on a bicycle.

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[glenn2926]

Yes I it called filtering. We are talking cycling here. I'm not saying I recommend it and neither am I saying it is safe.

I commute through traffic everyday on the bike. All situations are different. I go on the right when I can but sometimes car drivers drive in the middle of the road so I go on the inside of them. Some drivers drive with wheels on the kerb to impede me. I go round them.

You cannot be done for driving without due care and attention on a bicycle.

If you ride like that you could hardly complain if you’re knocked off by a driver not expecting to be undertaken.
Sometimes even cyclists have to take some responsibility for their own safety.
There is of course Darwinism to consider I suppose.

 

[63720]

Stats from a few years back showed that in the Netherlands only 4% of cyclists wore a cycle hat while they had the lowest accidents rates in Europe. It was claimed that creating shared road spaces in the suburbs made everyone more tolerant of other road users.

 

[gpat]

If you ride like that you could hardly complain if you’re knocked off by a driver not expecting to be undertaken.
Sometimes even cyclists have to take some responsibility for their own safety.
There is of course Darwinism to consider I suppose.

Maybe. But not necessarily. The highway code says you should check your inside mirror before turning.
However I take you point and I always eyeball drivers in their mirrors before doing it and would never do it if approaching a left hand turn.
I don't want to die.

 

[Guigsy]

It would seem to me that there are a few car drivers that think they have privilege over everyone else. And that cyclists shouldn't get in their way. A cyclist has just as much right to use the road and be safe as anyone else.

To be clear, I cycle on the road a fair amount. I tend to stick to within a metre of the kerb. I mostly ride solo. When I do ride with friends, we tend to cycle one behind the other. If I'm solo, there are often times where the traffic is fairly heavy and isn't going that much quicker than me. If I feel that cars can't safely overtake me, I'll move further out and then shift back in when I'm not going to be driven into the gutter. And with the traffic in Birmingham, I'm often overtaking the same cars that just overtook me at the next junction.

 

[mofurt]

I do think most of us use the roads trying not inconvenience other road users. The only ones that don’t care about inconveniencing other road users are cyclists.
It would seem from just the few cyclists on here that they expect everyone but themselves to responsible for the cyclists safety.

I'm disappointed that that's what you are taking away from this. That really isn't true.

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