Coiled cables

[royandsharont]

La Manga, and I think Mazzaron beach, camp sites had fires in vans this or last year but not sure exactly why. The La Manga one was an electrical overload fault I seem to recall but again cannot be certain, I think 12 Spanish vans went up. The council shut them down as I recall at the time

 

[peterc10]

I have never seen a black swan, but I know they exist.

Next time you are in France stay at the Chateau Marquis de Vauban Aire in Blaye about 25 miles North of Bordeaux. They have a couple in their grounds.

 

[meanders]

I have been following a similar thread on a technical theatrical page where a school were running a dimmer pack and several lights from a cable reel that failed half way through act 1. Cue darkness and then an evacuation. It led to a not dissimilar discussion amongst some school based technical staff (many of whom who lack any real understanding but are doing it because they are the 'technician in teh science dept or similar), and being challenged by professional tech staff. Many of the former were shouting down the pro's by claiming they have been doing similar for years and not had a problem! As one very experienced contributor wrote, why on earth are you playing Russian roulette in a school of all places?

Why take the risk? It makes no sense.

 

[meanders]

Next time you are in France stay at the Chateau Marquis de Vauban Aire in Blaye about 25 miles North of Bordeaux. They have a couple in their grounds.

Thanks. I have seen pictures. Sadly, with many things going on in our lives, I can't see us ever getting back to France in the motorhome. We have only been to one rally this year and done one other evening at another, plus a few hour at Henham both without the van. Those close to us, know some of the issues.

 

[Wombles]

Thanks. I have seen pictures. Sadly, with many things going on in our lives, I can't see us ever getting back to France in the motorhome. We have only been to one rally this year and done one other evening at another, plus a few hour at Henham both without the van. Those close to us, know some of the issues.

Black swans in Dawlish, Devon too - not so far to go.

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[The Wino]

Never seen an electrical fire on all our travels in Europe. But seen a lot of cable drums around the sites.

The fact is that European motorhomes generally do not fit electrical elements in their heaters and boilers and they only use gas for the heating and cooking. That, and the warmer weather means they do not generate high electrical loads. On my Hymer the electrical elements were routinely added to RHD vehicles as an extra, because that is what the UK motorhomers demands.

It's pretty obviously not much of a danger the way motorhomes are used on the continent as I've seen lots of dodgy electrics and coiled cables but never seen any overheat. I don't think it is just the resistance of the cable it's also the coiled cable acting as an electromagnet.

 

[meanders]

it's also the coiled cable acting as an electromagnet

The inductive effect is minimal. It would also act only as a very weak electro magnet as its only the harmonics having an effect. You take the risk if you like, but please do not minimise it just because you have never seen it!

 

[The Wino]

The inductive effect is minimal. It would also act only as a very weak electro magnet as its only the harmonics having an effect. You take the risk if you like, but please do not minimise it just because you have never seen it!

I think the ones who say it's not a problem because of the way they use their motorhome and don't use a lot of mains power have a point. It's like everything else motorhome related what suits/ affects one person doesn't necessarily affect the next. People who have an inverter and use a lot of mains appliances and use a fan heater in the awning and electricity to heat water and mains kettle etc should certainly be very careful about coiled cables. People who only use electric to charge batteries, power led lights etc are probably fine no matter if they uncoil the cable or not

 

[VXman]

Out of interest how do you store it in the garage - loose ?

I do - is there a problem wit that, other than being untidy?

Can you connect them to extend the run (not that I ever needed to )

CAMC sites in the UK specifically ban that and likely others will have similar rules.

A site warden commented about this rule to me recently. What is their concern?

 

[meanders]

Key word in The Wino answer= probably!

You are correct that the probability is low for certain groups, but probability does not generally account for unexpected changes. That comes under Risk Assessments, a subject close to my heart but much misunderstood and maligned in the mainstream population. There you have Risk, and Impact to add to the probability. In this case, Risk may be low, Impact is very high as it could conceivably lead to loss of life, making it Red Risk. The mitigation would be to uncoil the cable which reduces the risk to negligible but likely still leaves it as an Amber Risk because you have unprotected cable. .

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[Widge]

Sorry, it is beyond me why someone with tens of thousands of pounds worth of MH would risk, however small the risk, the possibility of a fire that might damage not only their MH but their neighbours, not taking into account potential loss of life, when it is a well documented issue that I am sure every insurance company knows about, and quite likely something they would use to counteract any claim made.

 

[Richard n Ann]

If you're forgetful enough to use lots of amps while your cable is on a drum, then please uncoil it fully ready for when you forget.
Don't presume we're all like you..
No offence

 

[meanders]

If you're forgetful enough to use lots of amps while your cable is on a drum, then please uncoil it fully ready for when you forget.
Don't presume we're all like you..
No offence

Who were you replying too?

 

[meanders]

I certainly think that if a site explicitly posts up that cables need to be fully unwound, or a warden advises you such, that if something does happen, your insurance would be invalid and, depending on the cover, you may find you are also liable for any third party damage. If lives were lost, I would also expect the individual who refused to comply with a reasonable request because they think they know better, to have to explain their refusal to the coroner. Anyone here ready to accept that possibility? I have no idea of the probability, but expect it's tiny, but that really is not the issue is it. Gamble with your life and van if you like, but please don't gamble with mine.

 

[Widge]

If you're forgetful enough to use lots of amps while your cable is on a drum, then please uncoil it fully ready for when you forget.
Don't presume we're all like you..
No offence

So how much current does you charger, fridge, in fact any other electrical equipment you have on board use, when it develops a fault? Not all things have catastrophic failures that blow fuses or trip out, even something like a failing leasure battery could cause a charger to run flat out for a long period of time, add that to you being away from the camper all day, while your cable real is sat in direct sun for a few hours in the southern Mediterranean.

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[Tonks]

Out of interest how do you store it in the garage - loose ?

I do exactly the same as maison (ie. loop up the cable over my arm, rather than winding onto a drum.) I lay out what I need, and then lay the rest with the remaining loops loosely coiled but not quite on top of each other. Meaning, I throw down the remaining cable at a slight angle, so that each loop is not quite on top of the next. When I recover the cable I loop it onto my left arm, and wipe the cable as I do so with a cloth as I pick it up and make the loops. The cable goes into a round ducksback cable bag and is shoved into the back alongside my jack, in a spot which it wouldn't fit into if it were on a drum. It's a 25m cable so it's a bit heavy on the arm, but it's not really any bother doing it this way. I was given a drum to use, but after one attempt reverted back to drumless!

 

[sarumsteve]

Always always unwind coiled cables having seen one catch fire on a building site just powering an elec kettle. 30 secs to unwind, 60 secs to wind up......wheres the problem.

 

[chris1949]

I see that most of our continental cousins don’t unwrap their ehu cables - do you have to or not as it’s a pain rewinding them

The problem only occurs when there is a metal core to the cable drum because it creates an electromagnetic field. If you have a plastic core it might get slightly warm if you draw maximum current, especially if you have a cable with thin (cheap) wire, but otherwise it will be fine.

 

[meanders]

The problem only occurs when there is a metal core to the cable drum because it creates an electromagnetic field. If you have a plastic core it might get slightly warm if you draw maximum current, especially if you have a cable with thin (cheap) wire, but otherwise it will be fine.

Sorry but that is absolute bunkem and extremely dangerous advice. You clearly have not bothered to read the rest of the thread or review any of the other evidence.

Where are the metal cores?

 

[Orion]

Next time you are in France stay at the Chateau Marquis de Vauban Aire in Blaye about 25 miles North of Bordeaux. They have a couple in their grounds.

And don’t forget to sample a bottle (or more!) of one of their reds. Even the less expensive ones, although still costing circa €19!, were worth buying as a treat.

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[Widge]

The problem only occurs when there is a metal core to the cable drum because it creates an electromagnetic field. If you have a plastic core it might get slightly warm if you draw maximum current, especially if you have a cable with thin (cheap) wire, but otherwise it will be fine.

Nothing to do with metal core, wire rating allows for ventilation, the wire needs to be ventilated, in a tight coil it is not ventilated, also the résistance of copper goes up with tempreture, the hotter the coil of wire the more resistance, the more resistance the hotter it gets, add 35C air tempreture in South of spain and it is potentially easy to get thermal runaway, resulting in a fire.

If you wish to ignore advice its up to you, but please do not try and justify your argument with wrong information.

 

[Compusol]

Can you connect them to extend the run (not that I ever needed to )

Yes you can, we have a 25m and a 10m and had to join them together once in Spain due to the nearest posts not working. If your cables are good quality there is no problem.

 

[tonyidle]

Isn't that what I said then?

Sorry - I thought you meant it was an electrical effect caused by being in a coil.

 

[VXman]

Sorry, it is beyond me why someone with tens of thousands of pounds worth of MH would risk, however small the risk, the possibility of a fire that might damage not only their MH but their neighbours, not taking into account potential loss of life, when it is a well documented issue that I am sure every insurance company knows about, and quite likely something they would use to counteract any claim made.

Life is one big risk. The motorhome might get stolen, someone might crash into you, you might have a heart attack while driving. Best keep your tens of thousands in the bank. Hang on - the bank might go bust. Best under the mattress.

 

[bobnick]

114 posts on unravelling a cable.

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[Spriddler]

114 posts on unravelling a cable.

Pah! That's nothing compared with the 144 here on 'How to Use the Toilet'

(I'm not getting at you Barriesimpson as it was a fair question but I was amused at the huge number of replies).

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/using-the-toilet.304144/

 

[Purrfecttune]

This topic is one of those that will always have two sides and be endless.

There are those that say ‘I know people that have left their cable coiled and have never had a problem’, which is unfortunately inconclusive, do they know every Motorhomer? (I don’t know anyone that has been run over for instance, but I do know that it happens).

There are those that might be correct when they say that their usage is so low as to not cause the cable to heat up. Have they researched it enough to know and/or will they possibly forget the one time they use something extra/different?

It may be the case that because a lot of European EHU has such a low output, the cable may not be able to heat up sufficiently, hence the way they use it, who knows for sure? (A bit like when I visited Bangkok, Hong Kong and other Asian cities, the amount of ‘electrical spaghetti’ hanging over the streets was frightening, I have no idea how many problems that might cause)!

As stated by many, where there may or may not be a risk, why take a chance for the sake of one minutes convenience? Which is why I carry two different lengths of cable, which is the best convenient option for me, with less to wind up and avoiding any (potential) risk.

And yes, I am one of those that hand winds it, cleaning/drying it as I go using a cloth. I secure it in two places with short pieces of wide Velcro and It then sits comfortably in the seat locker beside the habitation door.

 

[peterc10]

And don’t forget to sample a bottle (or more!) of one of their reds. Even the less expensive ones, although still costing circa €19!, were worth buying as a treat.

And if you really want to push the boat out you can have their 4 course lunch with a different wine with each course and followed by a tour of the winery. We did that before Covid and the cost was €23. Now it has doubled almost.

The last stay we had in Blaye was on the Municipal site opposite the Chateau. The Chateau is now charging for overnighting but we may have another visit as the charge is about what the municipal site charges.

 

[Tonks]

I think the ones who say it's not a problem because of the way they use their motorhome and don't use a lot of mains power have a point. It's like everything else motorhome related what suits/ affects one person doesn't necessarily affect the next. People who have an inverter and use a lot of mains appliances and use a fan heater in the awning and electricity to heat water and mains kettle etc should certainly be very careful about coiled cables. People who only use electric to charge batteries, power led lights etc are probably fine no matter if they uncoil the cable or not

They have a point, I agree. However, they could be parked up in their vehicle, obviously MHers of experience, but using no heavy draw appliances. Then another van could arrive, pitch up near them, think 'oh, that van has only unrolled the amount of cable it needs to get to the post' and do the same. Because they're new and inexperienced. And they then turn on all the appliances they usually use at home and which they've bought in their new, new-to-them, or rental van...

Personally, I think it's best to avoid any risk which you can reduce, relating to fire, and I think it's also good to show good practice IRL, especially when it's got safety implications, as we go about our camping business. But that's just my view.

 

[Spriddler]

.......only unrolled the amount of cable it needs to get to the post' and do the same. Because they're new and inexperienced.

I've occasionally done my good safety deed for the day when returning late from the pub and noticed that those whom I assume to be newcomers have turned in for the night without unplugging their mains cable from the bollard.

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