Changing to a Lithium Leisure battery (20 Viewers)

[chris1949]

We have a 2021 Burstner 745 and want to change the leisure battery to one with more storage capacity. I have been receiving conflicting information as to whether I can do a straight swap for the 85 Ah lead acid to a 200 Ah lithium battery (of the same physical size). We have a Burstner fitted 120 watt PV cell on the roof. Some say yes, just change it; others say no because the Burstner charger isn't compatible. Any advice please? Thanks, Chris

 

[DBK]

It is possible to just change them but I don't think you will get the best life or performance out of the battery unless the solar controller and the mains charger have a lithium setting. You should also consider fitting a B2B for rapid charging after running the battery down.

 

[DT]

We have a 2021 Burstner 745 and want to change the leisure battery to one with more storage capacity. I have been receiving conflicting information as to whether I can do a straight swap for the 85 Ah lead acid to a 200 Ah lithium battery (of the same physical size). We have a Burstner fitted 120 watt PV cell on the roof. Some say yes, just change it; others say no because the Burstner charger isn't compatible. Any advice please? Thanks, Chris

I had the same idea but my understanding was that there is no economical way to make the change and I did not want to spend £1k plus.

 

[chris1949]

It is possible to just change them but I don't think you will get the best life or performance out of the battery unless the solar controller and the mains charger have a lithium setting. You should also consider fitting a B2B for rapid charging after running the battery down.

Thanks, nothing's simple!

 

[chris1949]

I had the same idea but my understanding was that there is no economical way to make the change and I did not want to spend £1k plus.

Thanks, nothing's simple!

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[Jimbohorlicks]

I would just change to the lithium. Your battery charger will not charge it to full capacity if its a standard pb acid charger but it will charge it to 90 % or so which is still better than the amps in your 85ah battery. If you travel a lot then a b2b charger is ok but if you spend days at one place then it may not be that cost effective. I would consider increasing your solar and changing your controller to a lithium compatible mppt.

 

[WillysMB]

You say Burstner... Fiat Ducato cab ??? I did a straight "drop in" of a Fogstar drift 230 (Under the drivers seat) Lithium battery on my 2023 model ..... the 2023 will charge directly from the Alternator and don't think it needs a Lithium specific charger, Get in touch with them and ask the question direct ...
No idea as to how you van is setup re position of the Leisure batt

 

[chris1949]

I would just change to the lithium. Your battery charger will not charge it to full capacity if its a standard pb acid charger but it will charge it to 90 % or so which is still better than the amps in your 85ah battery. If you travel a lot then a b2b charger is ok but if you spend days at one place then it may not be that cost effective. I would consider increasing your solar and changing your controller to a lithium compatible mppt.

Thanks. We tend to spend most of our time 'off grid' preferring to find quiet locations but usually move on every couple of days so the engine will charge the battery if it isn't being charged by the PV cell. Cheers

 

[Jev88]

Get advice about whether you should disconnect the split charge relay as lithium battery can try to pull lots of charging amps as they accept charge so much faster than lead acid.
B2B replaces the mechanism.

 

[chris1949]

You say Burstner... Fiat Ducato cab ??? I did a straight "drop in" of a Fogstar drift 230 (Under the drivers seat) Lithium battery on my 2023 model ..... the 2023 will charge directly from the Alternator and don't think it needs a Lithium specific charger, Get in touch with them and ask the question direct ...
No idea as to how you van is setup re position of the Leisure batt

Yes, it is on a Ducato chassis with the L Battery under the seat. When you say "get in touch" do you mean Burstner or the selling dealer (who we have found to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard).

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[WillysMB]

Hi Chris ..Go direct to Fogstar ( or your chosen supplier ) .... the only thing I had to do was buy some new M 8 or M 6 ??? threaded rod to replace the short
ones for a standard battery

 

[chris1949]

Hi Chris ..Go direct to Fogstar ( or your chosen supplier ) .... the only thing I had to do was buy some new M 8 or M 6 ??? threaded rod to replace the short
ones for a standard battery

Many thanks, I'll give it a try.

 

[WillysMB]

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 230Ah

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery 230ah | Grade A EVE LiFePO4 cells, JBD BMS, Bluetooth & Heating. Just £799.99 with a 10 year warranty.

www.fogstar.co.uk

 

[chris1949]

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 230Ah

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery 230ah | Grade A EVE LiFePO4 cells, JBD BMS, Bluetooth & Heating. Just £799.99 with a 10 year warranty.

www.fogstar.co.uk

Thanks again.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

We are changing to Lithium when we get back from Portugal / Spain. I quickly learned that once you have started there all sorts of bits you might as well get if you are going to make the most of it. Plus if like me you don't have the skills to understand the electronics part, someone else needs paying to do it. I reckon it will be over £2,000 but I also think over the next few years we will recover a reasonable Chinese of that by not needing electric. Then there's the peace of mind issue.

Before appointing someone to do the work, I recommend checking the fitter and their recommendations out with one of the experts on here.

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[Lenny HB]

Drop in replacement is marketing BS you will never get the best out of the Lithium.

You have said you spend most of your time off grid so you could get away with the EBL on the Gel setting for the odd night on EHU.
You will need a B2B to protect both the battery and alternator, your solar controller needs to have a Lithium profile.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

Drop in replacement is marketing BS you will never get the best out of the Lithium.

You have said you spend most of your time off grid so you could get away with the EBL on the Gel setting for the odd night on EHU.
You will need a B2B to protect both the battery and alternator, your solar controller needs to have a Lithium profile.

We came to the conclusion you also need an inverter to charge things like bike batteries and laptops, otherwise felt like only doing half a job.

 

[yorkiebar]

You can charge laptops from a decent USB powerback ( we do ). Perhaps bike batteries need more juice though, can't comment on that.

 

[LostInSpace]

2021 Vehicle. You may have a smart alternator.

If you do then you definitely need a B2B, so best to fit one anyway.

Once you have one, adding a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for the laptop and toothbrush chargers is simple.

Your Burstner will brobably have USB sockets for the 'phones etc.

Listen to what Lenny says:-

Drop in replacement is marketing BS you will never get the best out of the Lithium.

 

[Carpmart]

I disagree with the statement ‘you need to’! My view is you do not. You will improve performance if you do, but it’s in no way mandatory. Lithium is not the big investment decision it was three years ago… you will do little damage unless your lithium battery BMS fails..

Get the battery and invest in the rest as you either need to or want to!

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[suavecarve]

You say Burstner... Fiat Ducato cab ??? I did a straight "drop in" of a Fogstar drift 230 (Under the drivers seat) Lithium battery on my 2023 model ..... the 2023 will charge directly from the Alternator and don't think it needs a Lithium specific charger, Get in touch with them and ask the question direct ...
No idea as to how you van is setup re position of the Leisure batt

The Fogstar 280 also goes under the seat on its side. And I think it's cheaper than the 230 "designed to go under your seat" (fiat ducato a class)

 

[suavecarve]

And remember the discount from here for Fogstar if their sale has finished

 

[Lenny HB]

I disagree with the statement ‘you need to’! My view is you do not. You will improve performance if you do, but it’s in no way mandatory. Lithium is not the big investment decision it was three years ago… you will do little damage unless your lithium battery BMS fails..

Get the battery and invest in the rest as you either need to or want to!

BMS is a last resort you should rely on it for everyday charging.

 

[Rockpool]

2021 Vehicle. You may have a smart alternator.

If you do then you definitely need a B2B, so best to fit one anyway.

Once you have one, adding a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for the laptop and toothbrush chargers is simple.

Your Burstner will brobably have USB sockets for the 'phones etc.

Listen to what Lenny says:-

Not sure why you would install an inverter to charge a laptop or toothbrush? They can both be charged direct from the 12v system, just purchase the necessary cables for them and charge them from a usb outlet.
It saves changing your 12v current to 240v then stepping it back down again to suit the laptop and toothbrush chargers.

 

[yorkiebar]

Yes, charging laptops from 12v or a USB power pack is easy. And we have a USB toothbrush charger, getting an inverter fitted for just these is crazy.

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[autorouter]

You can charge laptops from a decent USB powerback ( we do ).

I think most laptops can be powered from a USB cigar-lighter car adapter. Older laptops that run on 19V mains power bricks can be run from a 19V car charger of the appropriate power. Newer laptops that run on USB-C mains power chargers can run on a USB-C cigar-lighter car adapter - but it has to be chosen carefully. You need one with a PD (Power Delivery) port, and read the small print to check the power level is adequate.

For example, we can run two USB-C-powered laptops from two of these adapters, which will do up to 100W each:

UGREEN 130W PD Car Charger 3 Ports with 100W USB-C Cable

UGREEN 130W USB C Car Charger: PD 100W high-speed charging, fast charge 3 devices, multiple protocols, and durable 100W USB C to C cable. Perfect for family travel.

uk.ugreen.com

 

[Carpmart]

BMS is a last resort you should rely on it for everyday charging.

Yes I understand the theory Lenny. Lots of misinformation is banded around though. A battery is a battery and it doesn’t care what type of charger it receives a charge from on what profile. A BMS is a good safety net and it’s easy enough to switch the charger off when you see 13.5 - 13.8v on the lithium, no need to be relying solely on the BMS… no harm done to charger or battery!

The OP can update his chargers when and if he wants to. It will help the OP using 95% of the possible capacity of a lithium over 100% of a lead.

 

[bigtwin]

It will help the OP using 95% of the possible capacity of a lithium over 100% of a lead.

Indeed, if something is 1000% better than you had before, achieving only 900% of the improvement isn’t really that much of an argument against it.

Ian

 

[suavecarve]

Indeed, if something is 1000% better than you had before, achieving only 900% of the improvement isn’t really that much of an argument against it.

Ian

That sums it up nicely for me

 

[LostInSpace]

Not sure why you would install an inverter to charge a laptop or toothbrush? They can both be charged direct from the 12v system,

Your laptop may charge from 12volt. Mine will not. (and Noah probably still has the other one on the Ark)

Yes, the toothbrushes will, but my comment was more of an example for anybody who has existing small 240v equipment which they would like to charge without EHU.

I could list other such things, but it will only give the oportunity for somebody to say otherwise.