Caution! Diesel heaters warning from trading standards

[funflair]

I was referring to this statement "You are lighting a small fire in a confined space to heat a very expensive living quarters,"
Which is the principle that all Motorhome heaters work on.

OK and I accept that we nearly all have fires in our vans but I would like to think that whatever is controlling and confining the fire is built to a certain standard and has supporting documentation to back it up.

 

[Two on Tour]

I use a CO meter at the exhaust to "tune" my Chinese diesel heaters for an efficient burn, and mine are producing around 35 to 50 ppm which is on a par with our oil fired boiler, not bad for a dodgy piece of crap.

 

[MisterB]

I use a CO meter to "tune" my Chinese diesel heaters for an efficient burn, and mine are producing around 35 to 50 ppm which on a par with our oil fired boiler, not bad for a dodgy piece of crap.

although i assume your boiler flue terminates outside ...... i think around 10ppm is deemed ok for indoors ?

i doubt it would take too much engineering/modelling to get the numbers down - but i suspect it would not be cost effective to do so

 

[Two on Tour]

although i assume your boiler flue terminates outside ...... i think around 10ppm is deemed ok for indoors ?

i doubt it would take too much engineering/modelling to get the numbers down - but i suspect it would not be cost effective to do so

External oil fired boiler sat at the back of our house on the patio.

Up to 50ppm is classed as normal for an oil fired boiler but between 10 to 25 is preferable.

 

[gpat]

OK and I accept that we nearly all have fires in our vans but I would like to think that whatever is controlling and confining the fire is built to a certain standard and has supporting documentation to back it up.

I just hope that they don't make them supply 10 pages of safety CMA in 30 languages that no one ever reads.

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[Just smiffy]

Why do people buy these
You are lighting a small fire in a confined space to heat a very expensive living quarters, which in turn contains air that you rely on to be fit to breathe
I’ll take my chances with a reliable source

People in homes worth millions have been doing it for centuries…..

 

[trevor 87]

I amazed that they can prevent this consignment from crossing our borders because of inadequate documentation but 1000's of immigrants with out documentation can walk up the beaches and receive a good old British welcome.

Oh my god I can't believe that you have written the truth !! And not had the trolls after you the immigrants are a money machine For the Westminster cronies

 

[Ianb]

Made by child or slave Labour working hours that we would not accept, in conditions that we would not accept, with quality control we would not accept

Crush the lot

HMRC make a fortune every day from non conforming and sometimes illegal to use products.
This is just a token effort to suggest that anyone actually cares about the safety of folks over money.
It will all blow over and they be back on the market shortly.

 

[Peppadog]

As someone who was going to China 2-3 times a year until active retirement in 2019. I have some experience of China ways, factories, attitudes and methods. My business imports products for resale in DIY/ builders merchant store groups, components to UK producers and garden machinery companies. Most of the comments written above fit the popular narative, but are innacurate or just rubbish.

1. Trading standards don’t really do much random testing nowadays, its impossible. My little business alone ships in two or three 40’ containers per week, and we are small fry.
2. Complaints received by Trading Standards are followed up if enough incidences occur about specific products or an incident is very serious. They don’t have the resources / manpower to do more.
3. Over twenty years travelling into industrial China. I have never seen child labour or poor working conditions, though things were less advanced in my early years regarding working conditions than we were used to in the west. So while they were twenty years behind us in that regard when I first went, they are mostly at least up to western standards now, usually better. Kids are often better educated as well. With very ambitious parents often. The labour market is more expensive now, so modern tech does more of the work of course, so well educated kids are needs.
4. Current pricing, ex. factory in China is not much, if any, higher now than before covid. But freight costs have risen dramatically. Most stuff travels in containers. In 2019 a 40’ container shipping cost was about USD $1,500. It went up to $15,000 but has now fallen back to circa $12,000. That puts a lot onto the landed price here.
5. China exporters have found they can set up shop here pretty easily now, especially is selling through Amazon or similar. A proper import company (remember 80 plus percent of consumer goods are made in China) knows how to write UK / EU instruction books and how to comply with EU/UK regulations. These heaters are clearly not coming into companies that know. Hence TS involvement.
I expect most of the Western branded and unbranded items we see now, including the components that make burglar alarms, to originate in China. Western producers exported the knowledge and empowered them a long time ago.

 

[TDub49]

On the subject of child labour in China: https://borgenproject.org/10-facts-about-child-labor-in-china/

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[DT]

Buyer beware ordered mine off fleabay showed up as dispatched never arrived and have been chasing for my money back which I am told will be tomorrow. Paid just over £100 now for sale at £146. Watch these scammers even when they tell you it is UK stock

 

[Kasey]

Chinese manufacturers are not stupid, but its all about their bottom line/selling cost. they have been selling a product that many of us have bought, knowing the instructions and information were very limited but were prepared to install them ourselves on that basis. i did assume that because they were being sold in the UK that they did in fact meet manufacturing safety standards required. i would ask then, where have trading standards been for the last couple of years and why have they now decided to take action?
its hardly been a back street, dodgy warehouse selling process, they have been available on auction and selling sites for quite some time. has there actually been any incidents with them? it would be good to know if there has.

i would put money on it that the manufacturers will now be rewriting their manual and looking for ways to conform with whatever standards are required. i doubt the heaters will change very much in design and even if they now start being sold as 'garage heaters' only, they will still find their way into lots of self build vehicles.

i have mine installed OUTSIDE our house with ducting for the hot air outlet and the inlet for the air to be heated running into the house, everything else is outside, with the exhaust in open air.

as an aside, we also have a zibro type paraffin heater, which is certified for use indoors in a well ventilated area. the products of combustion are deemed safe enough to just be released into the room. if a 'diesel heater' was also fired by paraffin, i wonder how the exhaust fumes would compare?

Trading standards do what they can with the resources they have. Having worked with Suffolk Trading Standards (at Felixstow docks) I know they do an incredible job with the resources they have and the amount of different products coming through that port.

 

[Nigel Thomas]

So, what EXACTLY is the problem. I'm thinking of getting a few, what should I be aware of.

Anyone?

 

[Marauder]

Absolutely, but I think you should have qualified your "we would not accept" comments with "at the moment" . . .

.
+1
now that strikes (and unwillingness to meet unions) are beginning to illuminate the real reason tories were so gaga for Brexit
in a couple of years we might well be grateful for employment & human rights as good as the chinese have now.

Watch how tories will demonise unions and workers, until no-one will defend them

remember what Pastor Niemöller said . . . .
_

 

[peterc10]

Watch how tories will demonise unions and workers, until no-one will defend them
_

I think the unions are doing enough themselves to achieve that.

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[robnchris]

Buyer beware ordered mine off fleabay showed up as dispatched never arrived and have been chasing for my money back which I am told will be tomorrow. Paid just over £100 now for sale at £146. Watch these scammers even when they tell you it is UK stock

You can open up a grievance with eBay, no point in writing to the seller, he will just string you along, most of the time it's a different person everytime, I had over 100 mails concerning an item and in the end e bay wouldn't support my claim.
Best to do your homework and not buy anything that isn't UK based.

 

[Coolcats]

My take on any goods of this type manufactured in any country it should have safety testing and certification for the countries they are sold in along with a comprehensive manual. Doesn’t matter where the goods are made safety of the end user is paramount.

Personally I would take with a pinch of salt on any forum where people say ‘it’s ok I’ve fitted one and its fine’ my preference is for safety testing and certification.

 

[Terry]

All I can say is I have had several

Eberspacher / Webasto and 3 Chinese heaters in the past. Cannot fault either and looking at them apart from colour no difference except the exhaust is crap on the Chinese ones which is easy and cheap to replace with the Webasto one. If nothing else the Chinese ones made both the premium brands lower their prices to around £700 from £ 1,000 plus. There is plenty of info on the Chinese heaters on YouTube etc and lots of people using them trouble free. Do your homework ​

 

[LesW]

.
+1
now that strikes (and unwillingness to meet unions) are beginning to illuminate the real reason tories were so gaga for Brexit
in a couple of years we might well be grateful for employment & human rights as good as the chinese have now.

Watch how tories will demonise unions and workers, until no-one will defend them

remember what Pastor Niemöller said . . . .
_

I'm not sure what your political whinge has got to do with Chinese Heaters..

 

[Old Gibber]

Why do people buy these
You are lighting a small fire in a confined space to heat a very expensive living quarters, which in turn contains air that you rely on to be fit to breathe
I’ll take my chances with a reliable source

As it happens I fitted one of these a couple of months ago to heat my workshop instead of using electric heating. The instructions were really poor, no dispute there! I fitted it outside, so no issues with exhaust gas venting, and using just a little common sense, made sure the heat from the exhaust was nowhere near anything combustible. The air intake for the combustion chamber is outside too. The air intake for the warm air part is ducted out of the workshop, so no chance of fumes being drawn in there. In the rare chance some exhaust fumes could get into the warm air supplied to the workshop through a faulty seal in the combustion chamber I also have a CO monitor in the workshop. So far it has continued to read 0.

Why do people like me buy these? Firstly because they can legitimately run on red diesel which is quite a saving, and secondly because unlike the poster above I did my research first and spent a bit of time thinking about the best way to install it to be as safe as possible.

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[Tony50]

But we do accept it time and time again, OK this shipment was stopped but most likely just the tip of the iceberg.

Lots of stuff probably gets through I was told the Felixstowe Port is 4 miles long, and now dredging the channel out sea even deeper ready for latest designed ships ,hope they are not made by the same Chinese company that made the Port Cranes as dockers say they are rubbish!!

 

[Tony50]

I amazed that they can prevent this consignment from crossing our borders because of inadequate documentation but 1000's of immigrants with out documentation can walk up the beaches and receive a good old British welcome.

They don't land on our beach at Felixstowe , probably because they don't fancy a Container Ship with 20,000 containers on board hitting them !!

 

[stevewagner]

Comical how those that have fitted Chinese heaters defend them. They are bought as they are cheap, that’s all.

 

[Lenny HB]

Comical how those that have fitted Chinese heaters defend them. They are bought as they are cheap, that’s all.

They are cheap, they work well, no reported incidents with them so what's the problem.

 

[Tony50]

I use a CO meter at the exhaust to "tune" my Chinese diesel heaters for an efficient burn, and mine are producing around 35 to 50 ppm which is on a par with our oil fired boiler, not bad for a dodgy piece of crap.

Well if they are made like Clarks (Chinese made shoes) they look good but it's not until you pull the laces tight you find the " eye holes for the laces have no metal rings in them" and the leather rips after a few times use !!

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[pappajohn]

I've been considering one for our kitchen which is unheated other than heat from the dining room with the door open.
It would be outside with only warm air and intake ducts indoors.
Can't see anything wrong there.

 

[Old Gibber]

Comical how those that have fitted Chinese heaters defend them. They are bought as they are cheap, that’s all.

What's comical about saving a considerable amount of money??? A good quality European diesel heater costs over 10 times as much as the Chinese ones. Having paid £100 for mine, it made economic sense to switch over from expensive electricity heating to more economical diesel heating. It does not make economic sense for me to pay even 10 times as much for a quality European one. As far as I can see my cheap and cheerful Chinese one works extremely well, and even if I have to replace it in a few years it will have been worth it.

 

[Lenny HB]

What's comical about saving a considerable amount of money??? A good quality European diesel heater costs over 10 times as much as the Chinese ones. Having paid £100 for mine, it made economic sense to switch over from expensive electricity heating to more economical diesel heating. It does not make economic sense for me to pay even 10 times as much for a quality European one. As far as I can see my cheap and cheerful Chinese one works extremely well, and even if I have to replace it in a few years it will have been worth it.

The expensive one is probably made in China at a similar cost.

 

[Peppadog]

Uk companies with a reputation to protect are likely more demanding of their suppliers, regardless of where they are based than, for example, an obscure ebay only seller, who might not even have stock here in the UK.
Due to the above, most Chinese factories wanting to supply here have been through the ISO9001 accreditation route. That ensures lots of things are done well. Working conditions etc benefit from that.
Responibility to comply with EU/UK rules is only the first importer of a product into the region. Or, of course a manufacturer already inside the EU/UK ( there is no current deviance of product compliance post brexit, though the UKCA compliance logo is replacing the CE logo).
So. If you buy a Chinese diesel heater off ebay, it is the responsibility of whoever imported it to comply with our safety etc rules. If the seller ships it to you direct from China, taking 3-4 weeks or whatever, its probably you! If that heater is shipped to you from a local UK warehouse, then it has been imported by someone and they are responsible. its not the same with components in most cases. Someone making alarm systems here, have to ensure their product complies, by definition, outsourced components have to be compliant to achieve that.
My guess is lots of people must have complained to trading standards for them to go and check them.

 

[peterc10]

Well if they are made like Clarks (Chinese made shoes) they look good but it's not until you pull the laces tight you find the " eye holes for the laces have no metal rings in them" and the leather rips after a few times use !!

The pair of Clarks I am wearing was made in Portugal. I have another three pairs of Clarks' shoes with me in the motorhome, another one from Portugal, one from India and one from Vietnam.

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