Can you start motorhome to warm engine while gas is turned on?

[thekindnesscoach]

Can you start motorhome to warm engine while gas is turned on?

 

[funflair]

As I read it the allowable use of gas in certain circumstances is ONLY for heating, not for a fridge ...

What would the difference be? heating takes air and any other gas into the combustion process, so we are back to the definition of "naked" flame, and it is on the outside of the appliance not the outside of the vehicle.

(c)in any other vehicle, a refrigerating appliance or an appliance which does not expose a naked flame on the outside of the appliance and which is permanently attached to the vehicle and designed for the purpose of heating any part of the interior of the vehicle for the comfort of the driver and any passengers.

 

[funflair]

I suppose, unless it’s been tested in court, who’s right?

I think we are viewing these regs in the context of garage forecourts, re-fuelling and fridges in particular as it affects most of us but this is covered by different regulation and for good reason, so it may be legal to use a fridge on the road but certainly not on a garage forecourt.

I say may as I don't know, so yes you are right it have to be tested.

 

[L' Hobo]

A filling station near us was blown up some years ago due to an idiot running his fridge on gas.

So the idiot must have got prosecuted, how much did he get fined or was he jailed?

Was it not tested in court in respect of the above incident?

 

[ED O'DARAC]

Not if you have a gas hob, oven, boiler etc.

Hi, maybe I read this wrong, but I feel he means that your compressor fridge stays working on even a long ferry crossing whilst you have to turn the gas bottles off so a 3 way fridge stops working on ferries. I don't think you would ever use the other gas items (boiler/hob) whilst at sea?? Compressor fridges are so good if you have enough 12v battery and solar. Not good if you don't!

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[Reallyretired]

I understand, though I don't have one, that USA rvs have gas/mains only fridges that are intended to run on gas while travelling. A motorhome boiler does not have a naked flame outside the appliance and so should be fine to run on gas while travelling.
Certainly no need to turn off the gas, mine goes off in storage, on the tunnel and when filling.

 

[Minxy]

Hi, maybe I read this wrong, but I feel he means that your compressor fridge stays working on even a long ferry crossing whilst you have to turn the gas bottles off so a 3 way fridge stops working on ferries. I don't think you would ever use the other gas items (boiler/hob) whilst at sea?? Compressor fridges are so good if you have enough 12v battery and solar. Not good if you don't!

I was thinking of the 'general' use of gas not being an issue, not just on ferries, ie they'd still have some gas appliances as they won't have a no-gas MH/camper*, just not a fridge. It's down to interpretation and knowing exactly what the poster meant ... which as we've shown can have 2 different meanings.

* There's at least one funster who only has diesel and electric appliances, no gas at all, due to carrying a motorbike in his camper for safety reasons.

 

[Minxy]

What would the difference be? heating takes air and any other gas into the combustion process, so we are back to the definition of "naked" flame, and it is on the outside of the appliance not the outside of the vehicle.

(c)in any other vehicle, a refrigerating appliance or an appliance which does not expose a naked flame on the outside of the appliance and which is permanently attached to the vehicle and designed for the purpose of heating any part of the interior of the vehicle for the comfort of the driver and any passengers.

It doesn't matter as it stipulates 'heating' so that's what I'm talking about, it doesn't say MH/camper fridges can be used, either with or without a naked flame.

 

[funflair]

It doesn't matter as it stipulates 'heating' so that's what I'm talking about, it doesn't say MH/camper fridges can be used, either with or without a naked flame.

It also says "a refrigerating appliance or an appliance that does not expose a naked flame on the outside of the appliance" OK it mentions heating as well.

 

[Spriddler]

Most fridges run on 12v when travelling so I don't understand why driving with the fridge operating on gas is necessary.

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[Lenny HB]

So the idiot must have got prosecuted, how much did he get fined or was he jailed?

Was it not tested in court in respect of the above incident?

Not a clue it was over 30 years ago.

 

[Minxy]

It also says "a refrigerating appliance or an appliance that does not expose a naked flame on the outside of the appliance" OK it mentions heating as well.

I don't think the OP wants to make herself any colder!

 

[L' Hobo]

Not a clue it was over 30 years ago.

That really is "some years ago"!

 

[tonyysue]

I think you could but starting a modern diesel and leaving it to idle is the quickest way to clog your dpf and egr resulting in a 'limp home' expensive visit to your dealer.
BTW.

You’ll have to explain to me why that is! Coming from a school which has always maintained that in order to protect your engine you should allow the engine to idle long enough so that the oil has thinned and properly coated the cylinder walls/rings/bearings, before putting any strain on them, what is it xx about modern diesel engines that negates this? I’m well aware that modern oils act as a thinner oil at low temperatures, but as a thicker oil at high temperatures, but that doesn’t negate the premise high lighted above! Although not commonrail my 2.5TD engine has now done 300,000 and yet uses less oil than the original spec and have had nothing done to the engine in the 22 years I’ve owned it! In addition the idea that one shouldn’t let your modern engine just idle seems to fly in the face of what long distance lorry drivers routinely do! Someone please elucidate!

 

[Lenny HB]

You’ll have to explain to me why that is! Coming from a school which has always maintained that in order to protect your engine you should allow the engine to idle long enough so that the oil has thinned and properly coated the cylinder walls/rings/bearings, before putting any strain on them, what is it xx about modern diesel engines that negates this? I’m well aware that modern oils act as a thinner oil at low temperatures, but as a thicker oil at high temperatures, but that doesn’t negate the premise high lighted above! Although not commonrail my 2.5TD engine has now done 300,000 and yet uses less oil than the original spec and have had nothing done to the engine in the 22 years I’ve owned it! In addition the idea that one shouldn’t let your modern engine just idle seems to fly in the face of what long distance lorry drivers routinely do! Someone please elucidate!

Modern diesels do not get up to operating temperature on tickover you can leave them on tickover for half an hour and they still will not be up to operating temperature. This causes condensation in the bores and wrecks the CAT & DPF.
Should be driven off immediately after starting.

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[CazPaul]

I thought the open flame of a fridge wasn’t allowed in filling stations.

I know a Motorhomer that this year didn’t switch the gas fridge off and was filling with lpg, explosion, side of van a right mess, she ended up in hospital, motorhome still not repaired as we speak.

 

[L' Hobo]

Modern diesels do not get up to operating temperature on tickover you can leave them on tickover for half an hour and they still will not be up to operating temperature. This causes condensation in the bores and wrecks the CAT & DPF.
Should be driven off immediately after starting.

My only query on your first sentence is, I was told a few years ago by a Fiat Professional mechanic that, mine & other modern vehicles, no longer have a direct temperature probe like the one on my old VW that sits in one of the waterways, but an air/engine sensor that sends a message to the ECU.
He said, a temperature gauge was just fitted to give drivers, reassurance.

If that is the case, can we trust the temperature gauge on a modern vehicle?

 

[L' Hobo]

I know a Motorhomer that this year didn’t switch the gas fridge off and was filling with lpg, explosion, side of van a right mess, she ended up in hospital, motorhome still not repaired as we speak.

With all the talk of being 'tested in court' as there must have also been damage to the garage and surrounding area, is she being taken to court and sued.
If not, why not? (Just asking)

 

[CazPaul]

With all the talk of being 'tested in court' as there must have also been damage to the garage and surrounding area, is she being taken to court and sued.
If not, why not? (Just asking)

Not sure it was in Germany where she now lives.
Van a mess though and her arm/hand, no gloves on.

 

[Murrays]

That's might be ok until you come across a petrol spillage with fumes everywhere, at that point your probably going to wish you'd turned your gas off and weren't driving with a naked flame
That's why it's against the regs

Life presents plenty of risks, I'm content with my choices.

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[Murrays]

I thought the open flame of a fridge wasn’t allowed in filling stations.

Yes, good point, when refuelling the fridge goes off.

 

[Figaro]

Yes, good point, when refuelling the fridge goes off.

A very risky strategy, remembering to turn off the fridge before you set off and may need fuel on you journey.
Turning the fridge off when you arrive at the garage may be too late ?
Petrol fumes are very flamable and it doesn't take much.
Just saying . . .

 

[funflair]

Yes, good point, when refuelling the fridge goes off.

Just out of interest, why don't you use AES and let the fridge decide?, assuming your fridge has this setting.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Can I say, for those that are not mechanically minded, Don't Panic!

While I agree with most of what has been said about engines idling and it is best if you do as I do, use it every week.

It is not essential that the minute your engine fires into life, you have to be off the grid like a racing driver.
It will happily set there idling for a few minutes while you clear the windscreen, check your lights etc as long as you take it for a decent run after.

In the olden days, we used to blank off part of the radiator so that it warmed up quicker!
(not sure if this acceptable with modern engines but if it gets really cold, that's what I'll be doing while keeping an eye on my temp. gauge)

I don’t think they over size radiators these days Owen as they can save 50 pence by making the radiator only just big enough to cope.

 

[L' Hobo]

I don’t think they over size radiators these days Owen as they can save 50 pence by making the radiator only just big enough to cope.

I agree but my Murvi habitation water is also heated by my radiator as I drive. This extends the water/antifreeze capacity by about 25%, so I can indulge my old habit slightly more than most.

When I have been driving for about an hour, I could, if I wished, stop and have a shower. ( handy if your caught in a long traffic jam and short of time for an appointment, yet another reason to keep one's engine ticking over )

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[Murrays]

Just out of interest, why don't you use AES and let the fridge decide?, assuming your fridge has this setting.

Unfortunately it is a basic fridge and the setting is manual, there's no automatic option. It works fine on gas whilst moving, so it just gets left there.

 

[Nedge68]

Our AES fridge had a hissy fit while operating on gas and set the igniter on click, click, click, fortunately we were on a quiet CL and I noticed it, glad I wasn’t on a fuel filling forecourt, where there are spillages and vapour present…

 

[mitzimad]

Only time my gas gets turned off is for the tunnel

 

[Lenny HB]

Only time my gas gets turned off is for the tunnel

No problem providing you have all the safety features that allow you to travel with the gas on - Crash sensing Regulator and either Anti-rupture hoses or bottles with Anti-rupture valves.

We always drive with the gas on, yes we do have the required safety features.

 

[autorouter]

I wonder why the fridge burners don't have a metal gauze flame trap, such as is found in some batteries, and more famously in the miner's safety lamp. It stops a flame front spreading spreading into an explosion.

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[royandsharont]

As I read it the allowable use of gas in certain circumstances is ONLY for heating, not for a fridge ...

That was my understanding too, hence the ability to isolate the fridge, oven & hob with their individual valves to enable just the heating to be on with the required regulator & hose.