Campervans! - Has the bubble burst?

Jrizzle said:
That's an almost impressive amount of judgemental brush-tarring crammed into such a small post. What a Karen you must be.
Click to expand...
Wow Jrizzle, best you subscribe and allow other to comment.

Strange way of introducing yourself to the forum.

OH and welcome to Fun.
 
I think dealers will keep the prices artificially high as they did before the covid demand as its in their interest to do so, many have bought stock above the book value to get stock and as new van prices have gone up by around 15/20% this will keep second hand prices high.
 
WESTY66 said:
There might be a few more used ones, BUT………

Will the manufacturers bring the prices down on NEW units, I would be very surprised if they did, the dealers however might start shifting on prices again but will resist to start with, JMHO

Then again I could be talking out my backside, after all what do I know🤷‍♂️😁
Simon-Alan Kerr might have a better insight as to what’s happening with the market.
Click to expand...
Most converters of VWs won't be bringing prices down any time soon. The cost of the base vehicles, especially if decently specced, has gone up astronomically, as have the materials needed to convert the vans, and the items which are part of that conversion. An SCA roof like the one on my van now costs £4,500 without colour coding or installation. A '3/4' RIB bed £2250.00. Kitchen equipment can add another £1000. So you're heading to £10k very quickly without even factoring any electrics, insulation, lining, etc etc or the labour cost.

The uncertainty of the cost of living rises is certainly impacting people's decisions. There are noticeably more vans coming up for sale, but in general the good quality ones are still holding their money. This is the first year I've increased the value of my van for my insurance, because trying to find a van with a similar quality spec will still mean shelling out £30k. I looked at this last week and vans just a year newer than mine with the same conversion (ie from the same converter, but in these cases being sold elsewhere) are commanding prices higher than I paid for mine eight years ago. And they're selling.

At the Van Life Festival last weekend the trend for #vanlife didn't seem to be showing any slowdown. In fact more are now abandoning houses in favour of living on the road. It was a packed out event and I had lots of conversations with people who were still planning to buy vans/MHs.
 
Started off with vw campers splits, bays t4,t5 now I’ve had a Motorhome for 10years I’ve realised how incredible useless they are space and money wise, never go back to one vw in vans =lots of money, saying that sold my splity to fund my Motorhome with no debt 👍🏻

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
dash300 said:
The VW Camper vans are relatively quite tiny and appeal to a much younger market who perhaps do not currently have the funds. So perhaps you are right and their bubble has burst. I don't see that with the larger PVC/Motorhome market which from what I have seen is very bouyant.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I think that particular sector has defo topped out but with the cost of living only just starting to bite, domestic energy costs increasing again in the autumn, house prices starting to soften towards the end of the year, suspension of the triple lock etc, everything points to the PVC/Coachbuild sector having to be impacted soon.
 
Higher interest rates (hitting those with big mortgages hardest) and a likely recession might see a repeat of 2009 market conditions, maybe in 2023 - 2024. Looking at the back issues of MMM from 2009, there were dealers cutting up to £15k off the price of a new A Class to try to shift them. Discounts of £5k - £10k off other MHs. Plenty of opportunities for bargain hunters with cash.

My view is that despite a recession there will still be demand for branded MHs and campervans that are perceived as better quality conversions. The home made camper conversions and lesser-known small company conversions will struggle to keep their value.
 
The Dotties said:
What is a Karen? Genuine question
Click to expand...
“Karen is a pejorative term for a white woman perceived as entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is normal. The term is often portrayed in memes depicting white women who use their white privilege to demand their own way.” Slang dictionary definition
 
Bonsaiman said:
“Karen is a pejorative term for a white woman perceived as entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is normal. The term is often portrayed in memes depicting white women who use their white privilege to demand their own way.” Slang dictionary definition
Click to expand...
So all female’s should be called Karen ???🤣
 
It seems the higher prices for new orders is being pushed to a large degree by the base vehicle manufacturer greatly increasing the cost of vans, VW, Ford & Stellantis. This has really hit the smaller converter hard, compounded by the 3rd country status import duty.

A Ford Custom DCIV without comfort or convenience cab options with a 130ps engine and 6 speed auto box will cost £45k, a similar specced VW T6.1 £49k, you then have to consider the conversion costs including labour, maybe a further £20 - £25k.

It's simply not worth the money to spend £65 - £75k on a camper van.

The costs of a van conversion from a smaller converter especially when you consider the amount of real estate your getting is also ridiculous even on a series 8 Fiat. A basic I H 630RD on a Fiat will set you back a minimum of £75k. A Similarly basic conversion on a VW Crafter starts at £83k.

A Fiat Rapido A Class 855F with 99% of the toys added and proper 2 zone living is £84,500... I know where my money would be going.
 
Jonno1103 said:
It seems the higher prices for new orders is being pushed to a large degree by the base vehicle manufacturer greatly increasing the cost of vans, VW, Ford & Stellantis. This has really hit the smaller converter hard, compounded by the 3rd country status import duty.

A Ford Custom DCIV without comfort or convenience cab options with a 130ps engine and 6 speed auto box will cost £45k, a similar specced VW T6.1 £49k, you then have to consider the conversion costs including labour, maybe a further £20 - £25k.

It's simply not worth the money to spend £65 - £75k on a camper van.

The costs of a van conversion from a smaller converter especially when you consider the amount of real estate your getting is also ridiculous even on a series 8 Fiat. A basic I H 630RD on a Fiat will set you back a minimum of £75k. A Similarly basic conversion on a VW Crafter starts at £83k.

A Fiat Rapido A Class 855F with 99% of the toys added and proper 2 zone living is £84,500... I know where my money would be going.
Click to expand...
Great post however, its down to peoples means.
You say its not worth spending £65 - 75 on a camper, thats the same as saying whats the point of an Aston Martin when a Fiesta will suffice!
 
ontheroadagain said:
The bubble will burst - it is just a question of when.
Yes there is a shortage of new vans, but the price of a new van is eye watering, so in reality there will be a reduced number of buyers.
A few years ago you could buy a decent van for £60K. That same van is now £80 to £90K.
As a result, second hand prices have also risen considerably.
We purchased our first motorhome in Dec 2016.
It was an Elddis Accordo and we paid £38k for it.
The same van is now almost £60k and I recently saw a 2016 model advertised for £40K!
Our local dealers have some stock now. Last year they had none.
I have noticed that a lot of the second hand vans they have for sale have very low mileage.
Perhaps some people have now decided that motorhoming isn't for them.
Every business has its highs and lows.
Motorhome sales have been on a high for three years now but I feel that a low is on the horizon (but perhaps not for another 12 months).
Click to expand...
The Auto Trail F Line F70 has increased by 31% since February 2020. The starting price for the base vehicle then was £46k, It's now over £60k before any options are added. We paid £54k cash for our particular specification and a dealer fitted awning. As a negotiation they threw in wifi and refitted the air con FOC. The same van now is in excess of £68k and they'll not negotiate over anything as they know if you don't buy, the next guy will.

Pre pandemic many dealers would also guarantee your price on ordering, not a hope now.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
We chose to return to a campervan from a small coachbuilt for a few reasons.
Namely the feeling of ‘camping’ as opposed to being confined in a white box I got with our previous Majestic, the ability to get it into a car park space more easily, travel down country roads etc, not having to worry about damp (we found damp in our 7 year old Majestic). Yes there are compromises, mainly storage, but there are ways around this, and we were carrying a lot of junk with us previously. I’m no spring chicken and won’t see 70 again but it makes me feel young and adventurous 😂

I know it was expensive but so was our first van, Autosleeper Topaz (VW) and we got a great deal when we traded that in, almost as much as we paid for it second hand, and as my mother always said ‘no pockets in shrouds’.
 
Simon-Alan Kerr said:
Great post however, its down to peoples means.
You say its not worth spending £65 - 75 on a camper, thats the same as saying whats the point of an Aston Martin when a Fiesta will suffice!
Click to expand...
Very true Simon but... is it about affordability or practicality? Most van conversions are pushing 6.5m long, the same as many motorhomes and as discussed can prove more expensive than a coachbuilt. Can they really go places a similar sized motorhome can't?

Also, I can get into a Fiesta, you'd need a block and tackle to get me out of an Aston! ::bigsmile:
 
Jonno1103 said:
Very true Simon but... is it about affordability or practicality? Most van conversions are pushing 6.5m long, the same as many motorhomes and as discussed can prove more expensive than a coachbuilt. Can they really go places a similar sized motorhome can't?

Also, I can get into a Fiesta, you'd need a block and tackle to get me out of an Aston! ::bigsmile:
Click to expand...
Actually, lots of van conversions are under 6m. Mine is under 5m and there are plenty of campers on Transporters or SWB Transits and the like. And they certainly can go places a wider, taller 6m motorhome can't.
It's horses for courses, and there's always a degree of compromise whatever you go for. At the weekend I was camped next to a lovely couple in a LWB Crafter and we were talking about our respective compromises. Me with my lack of space, and they with their lack of easy accessibility to some places. But they did have a couple of electric bikes in the back. And what we need/want changes with time and variations in our interests etc at different stages of life.
 
Firstly I’m not interested in a VW, but certain ranges of motorhomes ARE coming on the market and at reduced prices, my range of 20k. I’ve been looking for a new van for 2 years and get notifications on new vans on the various apps when they come on to the market, there has been nothing for me except the ones that look like they’ve been dragged out out a scrap yard and stuck a 20k sticker on the screen… it is only just recently that I have a selection too choose from. I’m dependent on having an automatic and that always brings a premium.

I am in fact going to look at a 20k van on Friday with a view to buy and we’re in the middle of summer..! Should I wait till autumn and hope there are more vans and even cheaper..🤷🏼‍♂️

I’ve waited long enough and I need to get my motorhome fix as I’ve been lost without one….😎
 
Simon-Alan Kerr said:
The market is still incredibly buoyant. Used vehicles will stay high for another couple of years at least. The main reason is that the new vans just are not coming through. I have new sold vehicles I am waiting on and they will be here between now and 2024!

Fiat are struggling with supply, Ford were ok but now everyone is switching to Ford so they are now struggling. There are still big supply issues with the German chassis as they were reliant on a lot of parts coming from Ukraine.

In terms of the actual motorhome manufacturers, supply of raw materials is an issue. The main one currently are plastic pellets which they need to make roof lights and windows. One manufacturer has about 200 built vans but cant finish any of them.

In terms of used, VW's will be dying down now, nothing to do with the market changing, just end of the season for them. We can normally in peak times sell 10 VW's a month, over winter we sell 2 a month.

Just think, lots of people bought motorhomes in the "Staycation" yes some will hate it but lots will love it and will stick with our little industry. Yes I think the cost of living will effect sales to some degree however I think it will be the circa £20,000 used vans. I think someone with £100,000 in the bank that wants to buy a used Carthago isn't going to care that its now £1.50 for a loaf of bread!

We are currently maintaining what we sold this time last year which was our best ever year.

On a separate note, its also the most stressful I have ever known with parts delays, new vehicle delays and a lot of people desperate to get their new vans!
Click to expand...

Let me know if you get any 20k automatics in…👍🏼😎

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Well one thing is for certain, we have just had 3 weeks in Cornwall and if you threw a stick in any direction with your eyes shut you would hit a VW Camper, from Brand spanking new to some very old but in as new condition spilt screen models.
Not for us but they have a far bigger following than any other make.
 
Went to a large dealer on Friday to look at a van.
With their agreement drove our van into the sales yard and parked next to the van we were interested in as we had our dog with us and no way would I leave him in a car park out of sight. We drove past two rows of vans with “sold” in the window. When I got out of ours a prospective customer started asking me about our van, “oh well if you buy that we‘ll buy yours”.
We bought the van but I refused to let them have ours for what they wanted to give, I rang another dealer while there and he agreed to my price.
We left and while sat in a Service Station on the way home the dealer rang to offer us the money for ours. Dealers are desperately short of stock to sell, and the buyers appear to be still there.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
mapman55 said:
Yeah I remember paying a 15% mortgage 😩
Click to expand...
I remember that. We had just bought our first house. Taught me to lock into deals. Paying a little bit more for peace of mind was worth it. But nothing beats the feeling of paying off your mortgage and knowing that house is all yours.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Join us

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Back
Top