Campaign to Exempt Motorhomes from LEZ Charges (5 Viewers)

[Barchetta47]

There is much discussion on here about the need to have a Euro6 emissions motorhome.. The focus being that the increasing number of LEZ will render the use of your motorhome going forward much reduced. The popular view is this restriction will increasingly apply both in the UK and in the EU. I’m pretty sure the pre Euro6 vehicles on here at least equal the post Euro6 so it’s a substantial number.

What if there was another approach? Why can’t we campaign to get all motorhomes exempt from any current or future LEZ?

So I’m thinking motorhomes are typically:

A long term investment.
Overall a specialist vehicle which ultimately represents a low number % of UK vehicles. (? Less than vehicles exempt by age?)
Low annual mileage
Overall low emissions foot print: solar, lpg etc
Encourage an active lifestyle: walking, cycling etc
Increases tourist spending in many areas.

I’m sure there are many other reasons I’ve missed.

Is there an opportunity for MHF to start, post the General Election, a campaign via our new local MPs or a petition via the government website to get some traction?

Views?

 

[Red Sonja]

People tried this with the London LEZ. It didn't work then and I can't see it working now.

 

[Brains]

In truth, I suspect the next government, of whatever colour is elected, will be actively going in the opposite direction and specifically targeting diesel vans.

It's worth having a read if this article published this week which will give you are idea of where they will need to be thinking.

 

[Barchetta47]

People tried this with the London LEZ. It didn't work then and I can't see it working now.

I’m not familiar with that campaign but I’m talking about a serious national campaign.

At some point in the past a government conceded that 40yo vehicles could be exempt. Just checked and that excludes 340k vehicles each year. The latest numbers I can find for total
motorhomes registered in the UK is for 2022 which is 64k.

 

[Brains]

People tried this with the London LEZ. It didn't work then and I can't see it working now.

Even if every London borough voted true blue and they elected a Conservative mayor, and despite it being on the last Constive mayoral hopeful's manifesto that she would do away with the London LEZ, on day one, it was a cynical attempt to win votes.
To be honest she should have been told off by Sunak for promising something she would never be able to deliver or even alter.

There is not a snowball in hells chance of the LEZ being overturned with the current levels of pollution.

I'm sure back in the late 1950's their must have been pressure movement to 'Keep the Coal Fires Burning' even if it killed thousands.
and I'm sure if you went back further, the horse drawn Handsome taxi cabs must have wanted to get rid of the new fangled engined cabs.

It's called Progress.

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[Brains]

I’m not familiar with that campaign but I’m talking about a serious national campaign.

At some point in the past a government conceded that 40yo vehicles could be exempt. Just checked and that excludes 340k vehicles each year. The latest numbers I can find for total
motorhomes registered in the UK is for 2022 which is 64k.

I thought I read in the C&MHC rag the number of motorhomes on the UK roads is more like 220,000 ?? But I stand to be corrected.

Also I can't believe there are 340,000 extra 40 year old vehicles on our roads every year.
That would mean 3.4 million vehicles between 40 and 50 years old.
That number sounds way too high!
Where are they all ?

 

[PaulyP]

Not a cat in hells chance as lez, ulez and all clean air zones are nothing to do with clean air but everything to do with making money to make up for the mis management of councils.

 

[David and Sally]

I don’t suppose they really want big gas guzzling mohos cluttering up their precious city centres.

 

[gus-lopez]

There is not a snowball in hells chance of the LEZ being overturned with the current levels of pollution.

Why not?
What pollution? I didn't notice any when I wandered about a few weeks back having paid to pollute?

 

[gus-lopez]

I don’t suppose they really want big gas guzzling mohos cluttering up their precious city centres.

But arent+3,5T motorhomes exempt in the khan's ulez?

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[Brains]

But arent+3,5T motorhomes exempt in the khan's ulez?

Anything built after 2014/Euro 6 is currently exempt

 

[Barchetta47]

In truth, I suspect the next government, of whatever colour is elected, will be actively going in the opposite direction and specifically targeting diesel vans.

It's worth having a read if this article published this week which will give you are idea of where they will need to be thinking.

I’m thinking of a different approach.

Surely we have specialist vehicles and not diesel vans. The fact that our vehicles are in the main diesel powered is only one part of its emissions foot print? It could be argued that the foot print of the MH is lower than your home.

I’m just proposing that in the round there might be a case in our favour if diligently researched.

 

[Brains]

Why not?
What pollution? I didn't notice any when I wandered about a few weeks back having paid to pollute?

Have a word with your lungs about diesel particulates.

London is many times over the WHO maximum standards.
Hence schools have to close playgrounds and sporting fixtures have to be moved every time you get a period without a steady breeze.

 

[Barchetta47]

Also I can't believe there are 340,000 extra 40 year old vehicles on our roads every year.

Sorry I may have worded this incorrectly. There is a total of 340k vehicles exempt from an MOT.

 

[Brains]

I don’t suppose they really want big gas guzzling mohos cluttering up their precious city centres.

That is Congestion Charging.
Not the same as LEZ's which are to reduce pollution

And to be fair, MoHo's tend to avoid city centres

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[Brains]

Sorry I may have worded this incorrectly. There is a total of 340k vehicles exempt from an MOT.

Ahhhh, that sounds a bit more realistic !

 

[Brains]

Googling around it would appear the rough numbers for the UK are in the region of 225,000 Camper vans and Motorhomes.

There are 1.1m "leisure accommodation vehicles" which I presume means campervans, motorhomes, caravans, trailer tents and anything else with wheels and a bed.

 

[David and Sally]

That is Congestion Charging.
Not the same as LEZ's which are to reduce pollution

And to be fair, MoHo's tend to avoid city centres

Neither are what their titles suggest. Both are tax raising schemes.

 

[Barchetta47]

I thought I read in the C&MHC rag the number of motorhomes on the UK roads is more like 220,000

Hi, double check and your figure of 220k is more or less on the spot. However 220k is less than 340k!

 

[Brains]

Neither are what their titles suggest. Both are tax raising schemes.

However a tax that reduces by a double figure percentage year on year.
Give it a decade and the amount they will be collecting will be tiny in comparison as the vast majority of vehicles will be compliant.

It only will become a money grubbing tax if future mayors/governments replace it with a 'dynamic pricing' drive per mile tax where some roads are more expensive than others and it depends on the time of day and the day of the week.

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[Brains]

I think one of the problems any enforcement regime would come up with, if MoHo's where give some sort of exemption, would be the opposite of the 'Stealth Camper Van'

If a 'Stealth Camper Van' is a van that on the outside would pass off as a conventional panel van but on the inside has a bed, a cooker, a loo and shower.

The new 'Stealth Delivery Van' would be a delivery van with loads of windows, decals all over, an awning, and stickers of flags of foreign countries, but inside it would be a conventional empty panel van!

 

[MichaelT]

Why should a MH be exempt? The idea is to make the air cleaner in the area, the last thing you want is a dirty big white box polluting?

 

[Barchetta47]

Why should a MH be exempt?

Why not? The vehicle on average lasts what 20-30 years. It travels on average fewer miles pa than a commercial van. A precedent has already been set with ‘classic’ vehicles. On average an older van uses less of the planet’s resources going forward than a brand new van. Why not?

NB: I understand the clean air argument.

 

[Brains]

Why should a MH be exempt? The idea is to make the air cleaner in the area, the last thing you want is a dirty big white box polluting?

I think that is what most politicians would claim.
However MoHo's don't do a lot of miles and do spend a lot of money locally

So there is a case for exempting motorhomes from LEZ charges, but not CC charges.
But I doubt 200,000 motorhome owners are enough people to interest parliament.

After all, every MP owns, or aspires to own, a classic car.
They don't all own or aspire to own a motorhome. (except the SNP)

 

[Red Sonja]

Even if every London borough voted true blue and they elected a Conservative mayor, and despite it being on the last Constive mayoral hopeful's manifesto that she would do away with the London LEZ, on day one, it was a cynical attempt to win votes.
To be honest she should have been told off by Sunak for promising something she would never be able to deliver or even alter.

There is not a snowball in hells chance of the LEZ being overturned with the current levels of pollution.

I'm sure back in the late 1950's their must have been pressure movement to 'Keep the Coal Fires Burning' even if it killed thousands.
and I'm sure if you went back further, the horse drawn Handsome taxi cabs must have wanted to get rid of the new fangled engined cabs.

It's called Progress.

I'm talking about the campaign before the LEZ was introduced in London. There was a national campaign to try and stop it affecting Motorhomes. I wasn't referring to Susan Hall.

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[Itsmcb]

“ It only will become a money grubbing tax if future mayors/governments replace it with a 'dynamic pricing' drive per mile tax “
More when than if considering the millions spent recently on enforcement cameras.

 

[busby]

Why not?
What pollution? I didn't notice any when I wandered about a few weeks back having paid to pollute?

It's doesn't pollute if you pay.. BUSBY

 

[nicholsong]

But arent+3,5T motorhomes exempt in the khan's ulez?

Only because non-exempt vehicles >3.5t are subject to the original LEZ charges, which are from £100-300 p.d. but then exempt from the £12.50 ULEZ charge.

 

[MichaelT]

Why not? The vehicle on average lasts what 20-30 years. It travels on average fewer miles pa than a commercial van. A precedent has already been set with ‘classic’ vehicles. On average an older van uses less of the planet’s resources going forward than a brand new van. Why not?

NB: I understand the clean air argument.

It doesn't matter how long they last or how many miles it does, if all those miles are in a city with lez then it may pollute more than a higher mileage vehicle that only goes into the lez once in its life and if it never goes out of the lez then again it pollutes more in the area.

 

[jongood]

Why not? The vehicle on average lasts what 20-30 years. It travels on average fewer miles pa than a commercial van. A precedent has already been set with ‘classic’ vehicles. On average an older van uses less of the planet’s resources going forward than a brand new van. Why not?

NB: I understand the clean air argument.

I get LEZ's regarding lorries, buses, delivery vans, taxis etc that are on the road all day long. but the argument for low mileage vehicles is deeply flawed; The theoretical reduction in emissions x miles travelled would never get anywhere near the emissions from the energy used in manufacturing and distributing the new vehciles - motorhome, library bus, exhibition vehicle etc.

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