Burnt out Sargent EM40 unit

[Cockers]

Well our road trip has come to an unexpected halt Today travelled down through France and into Spain driving passed Albox on the E-15 A-7 heading toward Almeria and smelt the dreaded electrical burning smell and smoke started coming from the drivers side footwell, we had a very quick stop and switched everything off.
contacted Sargent and explained what had happened, explained the earth wires from the vehicle battery in side had melted and burnt out. I asked if if they could send me a new unit which I’m waiting to find out if they will send a unit to Spain. Strangely they said I would need a new EM40 unit and the repair wiring harness, i found it strange they have a repair harness to hand, which makes me feel there has been a problem with their wiring. I asked if it’s happened a lot to be told a few have had this issue.
really interested if anyone else has had the problem. And if anyone know of anywhere in Spain that may be able to assist.
by unplugging everything from the unit I can still drive the van but nothing is working in the hab area. The van is an Autotrail Dakota 2015.

 

[MitchandJenny]

On the ones we fitted in new conversions we pulled the wires back behind cupboards Then we stopped using Sargent because they always gave trouble. Paul used to have to take them to bits and solder wires etc and he came to the conclusion they were made up with a main board that’s cobbled to another bit of board instead of making 1 board ie as the board needed more stuff working on the van they simply added to main board to make things work -shite in his opinion - sounds like they are still cobbling bits that are not upto the job

Sounds like you were in the trade Terry.
I wish your mate Paul was here..
Mitch.

 

[Jonno1103]

Just sent a reply Email to AEL Technical.
They say my EM40 box doesn’t have a buzzer.
I will see what they say.
Mitch

The buzzer is part of the kit supplied with the Thule Omnistep, it's incorproated into the EM40.

 

[Jonno1103]

On the ones we fitted in new conversions we pulled the wires back behind cupboards Then we stopped using Sargent because they always gave trouble. Paul used to have to take them to bits and solder wires etc and he came to the conclusion they were made up with a main board that’s cobbled to another bit of board instead of making 1 board ie as the board needed more stuff working on the van they simply added to main board to make things work -shite in his opinion - sounds like they are still cobbling bits that are not upto the job

The wave soldering is rubbish too. The Em40 was used until 2021/22 it's now the EM41 and it still suffers.

 

[Terry]

You would think with the amount of Sargent units used in vans they would make a proper unit designed for the job instead of cobble extras on exhisting shite

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[MitchandJenny]

AEL Technical got back to me and said the side market lights relay could sound like a buzzer. My fault would most likely be a high resistance plug in connection. So out with board and check.
Mitch

 

[Diabalo]

I had to remove the door pillar plastic trim behind the drivers seat to get my EM40 out and there was a few relays in the pillar.

 

[MitchandJenny]

Yes Diabalo I had already done that ta.
I have ordered a new updated EM40 from Applejack because when I finally got my box out, the back of it was blobby soldering and corrosion. But, on the bright side, the terminals are all clean and good.
Hallelujah brother, just plug and play if/when the new one arrives.
Thanks to all of you for your informative support. Much appreciated.
Just got to see if it actually makes it to the campsite I have specified, in amongst all the Xmas parcels etc.
£184 including £25 international postage.

Mitch

 

[Mick and Ruth]

Yes Diabalo I had already done that ta.
I have ordered a new updated EM40 from Applejack because when I finally got my box out, the back of it was blobby soldering and corrosion. But, on the bright side, the terminals are all clean and good.
Hallelujah brother, just plug and play if/when the new one arrives.
Thanks to all of you for your informative support. Much appreciated.
Just got to see if it actually makes it to the campsite I have specified, in amongst all the Xmas parcels etc.
£184 including £25 international postage.

Mitch

Keep an eye on Import Tax mate my replacement Sargent EM40 was seized by customs in Ireland as it was sent from UK to EU and it cost me another £17 to get it released. I only found out it was seized as it didn’t show 5 days after it arrived in Ireland so when I chased the tracking number up Irish customs were going to keep it then return it to UK after 3 weeks, didn’t bother contacting me. It looks like Appuljack have covered that with international postage but keep an eye on it.

 

[Barti Ddu]

According to the Auto-Trail faceache group i'm on it's the tall fridge that is the problem, the under counter small fridge is Ok and you will not get a recall if you have one of those.

An update, especially for Autotrail owners with smaller Dometic fridges, (and van conversions) who didn't get the EM40 recall letter.

I didn't get the Autotrail recall letter for my 2021 Expedition 66 van conversion. I was away in Norway when I heard about it, and expected the letter to be on the doormat when I returned home, and was surprised when it wasn't there. I then read the same information as mentioned by Diabalo above that it only affected the taller Thetford fridge and not the smaller under counter Dometic Fridge that was fitted to my van.

However being a bit nosey, and for the sake of the two minutes it took to remove the 4 screws to lift the EM40 from the floor behind the drivers seat to have a quick look at the connectors I thought that I'd have a quick look. Pleased that I did. As you can see from the photo the green Fridge plug and socket were starting to overheat, with visible brown scorch marks.

I contacted Autotrail and emailed them the photo, but they said that the recall only affected certain vans and mine wasn't therefore included.

I contacted DVSA and informed them about my issue, asked why it wasn't included in the recall, and suggested that maybe it should be. They opened a case into it. (I was now aware that at least one other owner with a small Dometic Fridge had similarly contacted DVSA after their EM40 had burnt out). About a week later they replied that after raising it with Autotrail they had closed my case on the basis that mine was a rare case and that the small fridge shouldn't normally draw enough current to overload the connection. They also stated that in van conversions the rear lights are run as standard from the Fiat wiring looms and do not therefore interface through the EM40 unit as they do in a coachbuild. There was therefore no possibility of my rear lights not working even if the EM40 should burn out and fail. It was therefore deemed a "Quality issue" rather than a "Safety issue".

Autotrail advised me that even though it wasn't part of the recall, I should submit a warranty claim for it to be looked at.

After some difficulty in finding an Autotrail workshop that was prepared to do the work, I eventually used a local mobile fitter who was an AWS Approved Workshop to process the claim to Autotrail. The claim was agreed and today I had a replacement upgraded EM41 unit fitted. It's not a straight swap; old plugs need to be cut off the loom and replaced with new beefier connections. A much bigger cross section cable is also wired directly into the Convertors Socket in the door pillar to feed the EM41.

Anyway, all appears to be working, and I've got the peace of mind that a fire isn't about to break out behind my drivers seat as I'm driving along!

So..... If you have an Autotrail with a Sargent EM40 (which most Fiat based ones appear to have), and you haven't received a recall letter, (most likely because you've a small Dometic fridge and/or its a van conversion), do yourself a favour, get out a small Philips screwdriver and for the sake of a couple of minutes have a quick look at the back of it.

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[MitchandJenny]

An update, especially for Autotrail owners with smaller Dometic fridges, (and van conversions) who didn't get the EM40 recall letter.

I didn't get the Autotrail recall letter for my 2021 Expedition 66 van conversion. I was away in Norway when I heard about it, and expected the letter to be on the doormat when I returned home, and was surprised when it wasn't there. I then read the same information as mentioned by Diabalo above that it only affected the taller Thetford fridge and not the smaller under counter Dometic Fridge that was fitted to my van.

However being a bit nosey, and for the sake of the two minutes it took to remove the 4 screws to lift the EM40 from the floor behind the drivers seat to have a quick look at the connectors I thought that I'd have a quick look. Pleased that I did. As you can see from the photo the green Fridge plug and socket were starting to overheat, with visible brown scorch marks.

View attachment 994845

I contacted Autotrail and emailed them the photo, but they said that the recall only affected certain vans and mine wasn't therefore included.

I contacted DVSA and informed them about my issue, asked why it wasn't included in the recall, and suggested that maybe it should be. They opened a case into it. (I was now aware that at least one other owner with a small Dometic Fridge had similarly contacted DVSA after their EM40 had burnt out). About a week later they replied that after raising it with Autotrail they had closed my case on the basis that mine was a rare case and that the small fridge shouldn't normally draw enough current to overload the connection. They also stated that in van conversions the rear lights are run as standard from the Fiat wiring looms and do not therefore interface through the EM40 unit as they do in a coachbuild. There was therefore no possibility of my rear lights not working even if the EM40 should burn out and fail. It was therefore deemed a "Quality issue" rather than a "Safety issue".

Autotrail advised me that even though it wasn't part of the recall, I should submit a warranty claim for it to be looked at.

After some difficulty in finding an Autotrail workshop that was prepared to do the work, I eventually used a local mobile fitter who was an AWS Approved Workshop to process the claim to Autotrail. The claim was agreed and today I had a replacement upgraded EM41 unit fitted. It's not a straight swap; old plugs need to be cut off the loom and replaced with new beefier connections. A much bigger cross section cable is also wired directly into the Convertors Socket in the door pillar to feed the EM41.

Anyway, all appears to be working, and I've got the peace of mind that a fire isn't about to break out behind my drivers seat as I'm driving along!

So..... If you have an Autotrail with a Sargent EM40 (which most Fiat based ones appear to have), and you haven't received a recall letter, (most likely because you've a small Dometic fridge and/or its a van conversion), do yourself a favour, get out a small Philips screwdriver and for the sake of a couple of minutes have a quick look at the back of it.

Excellent post

An update, especially for Autotrail owners with smaller Dometic fridges, (and van conversions) who didn't get the EM40 recall letter.

I didn't get the Autotrail recall letter for my 2021 Expedition 66 van conversion. I was away in Norway when I heard about it, and expected the letter to be on the doormat when I returned home, and was surprised when it wasn't there. I then read the same information as mentioned by Diabalo above that it only affected the taller Thetford fridge and not the smaller under counter Dometic Fridge that was fitted to my van.

However being a bit nosey, and for the sake of the two minutes it took to remove the 4 screws to lift the EM40 from the floor behind the drivers seat to have a quick look at the connectors I thought that I'd have a quick look. Pleased that I did. As you can see from the photo the green Fridge plug and socket were starting to overheat, with visible brown scorch marks.

View attachment 994845

I contacted Autotrail and emailed them the photo, but they said that the recall only affected certain vans and mine wasn't therefore included.

I contacted DVSA and informed them about my issue, asked why it wasn't included in the recall, and suggested that maybe it should be. They opened a case into it. (I was now aware that at least one other owner with a small Dometic Fridge had similarly contacted DVSA after their EM40 had burnt out). About a week later they replied that after raising it with Autotrail they had closed my case on the basis that mine was a rare case and that the small fridge shouldn't normally draw enough current to overload the connection. They also stated that in van conversions the rear lights are run as standard from the Fiat wiring looms and do not therefore interface through the EM40 unit as they do in a coachbuild. There was therefore no possibility of my rear lights not working even if the EM40 should burn out and fail. It was therefore deemed a "Quality issue" rather than a "Safety issue".

Autotrail advised me that even though it wasn't part of the recall, I should submit a warranty claim for it to be looked at.

After some difficulty in finding an Autotrail workshop that was prepared to do the work, I eventually used a local mobile fitter who was an AWS Approved Workshop to process the claim to Autotrail. The claim was agreed and today I had a replacement upgraded EM41 unit fitted. It's not a straight swap; old plugs need to be cut off the loom and replaced with new beefier connections. A much bigger cross section cable is also wired directly into the Convertors Socket in the door pillar to feed the EM41.

Anyway, all appears to be working, and I've got the peace of mind that a fire isn't about to break out behind my drivers seat as I'm driving along!

So..... If you have an Autotrail with a Sargent EM40 (which most Fiat based ones appear to have), and you haven't received a recall letter, (most likely because you've a small Dometic fridge and/or its a van conversion), do yourself a favour, get out a small Philips screwdriver and for the sake of a couple of minutes have a quick look at the back of it.

Barty Ddu that is an exceptional post Informative and very helpful.
My EM40 had corrosion on the back of the panel and the side markers ceased to function . I ordered a new one from Apuljack who posted it here to me in Spain. Customs have seized it and are sending it back to UK.

So I am pulling the fuse on the side markers
and leaving this campsite tomorrow for Morocco after waiting 2 weeks for the bloody parcel.
I will contact Autotrail . and DVSA means what ?
Mitch

 

[Barti Ddu]

Excellent post

Barty Ddu that is an exceptional post Informative and very helpful.
My EM40 had corrosion on the back of the panel and the side markers ceased to function . I ordered a new one from Apuljack who posted it here to me in Spain. Customs have seized it and are sending it back to UK.

So I am pulling the fuse on the side markers
and leaving this campsite tomorrow for Morocco after waiting 2 weeks for the bloody parcel.
I will contact Autotrail . and DVSA means what ?
Mitch

DVSA are the UK regulator and market surveillance body for the motor trade. They were formed as a successor to VOSA.

As such they are responsible for instigating, coordinating and monitoring recalls relating to motor vehicles.

There is currently a recall on Autotrail motorhomes with Sargent EM40 fusebox / interface units but only in relation to motorhomes fitted with the larger Thetford fridge that had a higher current draw that causes the EM40 unit to burn out. In coach-built motorhomes the rear lights are also interfaced through the EM40 unit, so once that fails the rear lights are lost too. Hence the recall.

Autotrail and DVSA are adamant that panel vans conversion and motorhomes fitted with the smaller Dometic fridge are not covered by the recall, hence no recall letter to owners like me.

However, the Sargent EM40 unit appears insubstantial for even the more modest current draws from smaller fridges such as mine and can clearly overheat and burn out.

So even if you are not part of the recall, I'd suggest a quick look at the rear of the EM40 unit and if starting to burn out instigate a warranty replacement even though it isn't covered by the official recall.

 

[plug]

DVSA are the UK regulator and market surveillance body for the motor trade. They were formed as a successor to VOSA.

As such they are responsible for instigating, coordinating and monitoring recalls relating to motor vehicles.

There is currently a recall on Autotrail motorhomes with Sargent EM40 fusebox / interface units but only in relation to motorhomes fitted with the larger Thetford fridge that had a higher current draw that causes the EM40 unit to burn out. In coach-built motorhomes the rear lights are also interfaced through the EM40 unit, so once that fails the rear lights are lost too. Hence the recall.

Autotrail and DVSA are adamant that panel vans conversion and motorhomes fitted with the smaller Dometic fridge are not covered by the recall, hence no recall letter to owners like me.

However, the Sargent EM40 unit appears insubstantial for even the more modest current draws from smaller fridges such as mine and can clearly overheat and burn out.

So even if you are not part of the recall, I'd suggest a quick look at the rear of the EM40 unit and if starting to burn out instigate a warranty replacement even though it isn't covered by the official recall.

DVSA are the UK regulator and market surveillance body for the motor trade. They were formed as a successor to VOSA.

As such they are responsible for instigating, coordinating and monitoring recalls relating to motor vehicles.

There is currently a recall on Autotrail motorhomes with Sargent EM40 fusebox / interface units but only in relation to motorhomes fitted with the larger Thetford fridge that had a higher current draw that causes the EM40 unit to burn out. In coach-built motorhomes the rear lights are also interfaced through the EM40 unit, so once that fails the rear lights are lost too. Hence the recall.

Autotrail and DVSA are adamant that panel vans conversion and motorhomes fitted with the smaller Dometic fridge are not covered by the recall, hence no recall letter to owners like me.

However, the Sargent EM40 unit appears insubstantial for even the more modest current draws from smaller fridges such as mine and can clearly overheat and burn out.

So even if you are not part of the recall, I'd suggest a quick look at the rear of the EM40 unit and if starting to burn out instigate a warranty replacement even though it isn't covered by the official recall.

Hi can I suggest you also look at the power lead from the charger to the fuse board, as this year that also burnt out in the same way the em unit fitting has done as this will stop all charging to you hab battery..